The 144,000 before God at the end.

[brightfame52]

There is absolutely nothing in those verses about the 144,000 that would point to them being the Church. If it was the Church all John would have to do is use the word Church. Instead John goes to a lengthy description of exactly what and who those 144,000 are. Instead of accepting the written Word of God you force yourself to deny the truth. All John had to do was say Church. Why not just accept what is written so you can understand the Word of God. As soon as you start making stuff up you are lost.

The same thing goes for those that claim that the 144,000 are all of Israel. All John had to do was say Israel. There is an elaborate description so that we would understand EXACTLY who and what the 144,000 are. THEY ARE FIRSTFRUITS. That obviously means there will be a harvest of those of the twelve tribes. And yet we find the need to make things up. SMH.

It is the church. the Holy Blameless people Eph 5:25-27

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

And One with Christ Eph 5:30-32

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Now where the 144000 are said to be without fault Rev 14:5

And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

That same greek word describes the Church, His precious bride Eph 5:27

That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

The word means:

1. ithout blemish
   1. as a sacrifice without spot or blemish
2. morally: without blemish, faultless, unblameable

So its the same group of people, if you dont believe it, its because unfortunately you are deceived.

 

[brightfame52]

Gal. 3 is not Paul saying Israel has no unique calling, that is you and others not understanding the chapter.

Like I said, its fulfillment theology, Israel national was a type, shadow, picture, the Church is the Fulfillment of Israel Gods Chosen People, Chosen in Christ before the foundation.

 

[The Light]

Again, all John had to say was Israel and he used "THE WOMAN" in Rev. 12. The WHY has been explained unto you numerous times, but it hinders you true 144,000 theory so you pretend there was no reason for the 144,000 CODE.

My theory is that it says what it means. No mystery that needs to solved.

 

[The Light]

It is the church. the Holy Blameless people Eph 5:25-27

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

And One with Christ Eph 5:30-32

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Now where the 144000 are said to be without fault Rev 14:5

And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

That same greek word describes the Church, His precious bride Eph 5:27

That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

The word means:

1. ithout blemish
   1. as a sacrifice without spot or blemish
2. morally: without blemish, faultless, unblameable

So its the same group of people, if you dont believe it, its because unfortunately you are deceived.

Did it ever occur to you that these 144,000 are without fault is because they have become believers in Christ?

Now let's let the Word shoot down your theory that they are the Church.

In Revelation 14 we see they are redeemed FROM THE EARTH. They are BEFORE THE TRONE IN HEAVEN.

Revelation 14
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

How can this be the Church if they are redeemed from the earth in Revelation 14?

Can you answer that?

 

[The Light]

Again, all John had to say was Israel and he used "THE WOMAN" in Rev. 12. The WHY has been explained unto you numerous times, but it hinders you true 144,000 theory so you pretend there was no reason for the 144,000 CODE.

Also, if you understood that they are first fruits you would understand what this is all about.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

Again. No need to make anything up. The answer is already given.

 

[amigo de christo]

I don't know what you think you are proving.
I have yet to see any of you replacement adherents unpack rom 11.
What do you do with the verses that DESTROY your assumptions?????

Please do a study on covenant.
Please cast off the replacement theology deception so you can cleanly look at the verses.
If you can not do it, remain in deception, because , once again, your error originates in extra biblical assumptions, then you guys incubate that notion in omission.
It is appalling ,the obsession with omission. Just flat out crazy.

Yeah , i dont preach replacement anything .

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Like I said, its fulfillment theology, Israel national was a type, shadow, picture, the Church is the Fulfillment of Israel Gods Chosen People, Chosen in Christ before the foundation.

Yes, a TYPE to show us about following God via the Law vs. the Spiritual gift of Faith, and how only the later can lead us unto God, we can't please God with our "Righteousness". But alas, Israel are still a people with a specific calling, which is without repentance, Paul stated this in Rom. 11, he also stated Israel would remain blind IN PART (as a Nation only) until the time of the Gentiles (SERVICE unto God) is finished or comes full. Read Rom. chapters 9-11 carefully, its about SERVICE unto God, thus when Paul states the time of the Gentile is come full, he's not talking about "our RULE over men" like in Rev. 11, but our service unto God, that is why he mentions Jacob was CHOOSEN over Esau in Rom. 9, and how God chose to harden the Pharaoh's heart, everything leading up to Rom. 11 is about SERVICE, we must not miss that, thus when he says the time of the Gentiles is come FULL (Finished) he is stating that ONLY THEN will Israel repent as a nation, an we know this is true because of Scriptures, in Zech. 13:8-9 we see that 1/3 of Israel repents, and then in the very next verse (Zech. 14:1) we see the DOTL arrives (God's Wrath), then in vs. 2 Israel is sacked/conquered, then in vs. 3 (1260 days later, JUST LIKE in Matt. 24:29, where it says the Sun and Moon go dark......THEN Jesus shows up in vs. 30, that is also 1260 days later, the IMMEDIATLY AFTER is speaking about the Sun and Moon going dark, not Jesus' 2nd coming in vs. 30).

Not understanding how to decipher prophecy is a huge problem with the church, if its not a persons calling, they should not try and teach others about prophecy !! You can say it 15 ways, you are still in error. God chose EVERYONE, you do not get that either do you? We have to reject the free gift. That was Calvin's mistake, he saw that Paul stated we were Predestinated and did not understand what was predestinated, Jesus was a predestinated savior, we do not have to receive him, but he will call, thus those who go to hell have to reject the free gift of Salvation. So, we as humans make a FREE WILL CHOICE, God does not pre choose who will receive Him and reject him, He knows, but the choice is still ours.

Galatians three(3) means just the opposite of what you assume it means, here is the gist. Unless there are no males and females now, then Paul was not saying there are NO Jews or Gentiles, because he JUXTAPOSED the two, and Slavery also. The gist is new Judaizers came unto them in Jesus' name and told the Galatian's you have to practice the Judaism customs in order to make it to heaven, so Paul scolds them, calls them foolish, says who has bewitched you so much that starting out in the Spirit (FAITH) you have now chosen to serve the Flesh ( trying to please God by the works of THE LAW). So, Paul showed them via history how Abraham was justified by FAITH ALONE, and how the original Covenant was THE PROMISE (of Jesus' the seed) and was not THE LAW which only came 430 years later, because of Sin. Then Paul says, once the Schoolmaster has come (Jesus) the Law is no longer needed !! So, the whole chapter is about what? What do you guys miss? THINK !! The whole chapter is about how the LAW can not save us only FAITH CAN, (WATCH NOW) so Paul then shows how the Galatians COME UNTO Christ, by FAITH ALONE, just like Righteous Abraham, not by THE LAW as the Judaizers were trying to teach them, thus when Paul says there are no Jews nor Gentiles, no Male nor Females, he is speaking SPECIFICALLY about in the manner we come unto Jesus Christ, there is no Jewish WAY, and Gentile WAY, and no Male WAY vs. a Female WAY, we all come unto Jesus by FAITH ALONE..........Paul is screaming, STOP trying to be Jewish in order to make it to heaven, you do not have to be "Jew like", God accepts us all by FAITH ALONE !! People do not get this because Satan is slick with his lies and deception, all I did, long ago, was look at the JUXTAPOSTION provided by Paul, are there still MALES & FEMALES (LOL) of course there are, thus the point Paul was making COULD NOT BE that Jews and Gentiles are all ONE, he is merely pointing out the PATH UNTO God has ONE WAY, we must come unto Jesus/God by FAITH ALONE, not by The Law !!

The sad part is, those who love their own ideas or other men's ideas will not accept this obvious truth.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

My theory is that it says what it means. No mystery that needs to solved.

I have known you across many sites, and the only thing you get right is a Pre Trib Rapture, sadly.

Also, if you understood that they are first fruits you would understand what this is all about.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

Again. No need to make anything up. The answer is already given.

There are First-fruits from all the Harvested products.

 

[The Light]

I have known you across many sites, and they thing you get right is a Pre Trib Rapture, sadly.

So let me get this straight. If you want know what I believe you just read what the Word says and accept what is written. If I want to know what you believe I have to go through a personal interpretation and figure out what all you have made up. It seems much easier and more fruitful to just believe what is written. As soon as you make something up, you are off the path of understanding.

There are First-fruits from all the Harvested products.

They are the first fruits from the 12 tribes across the earth. That means there will be a harvest from the 12 tribes across the earth. Simple.

Here is the harvest.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

And here are those that are harvested from the earth.

Revelation 15
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

Boy that's a coincidence, those harvested from the 12 tribes across the earth are singing the song of Moses. How's that possible?

It's time you understood there are two raptures as the fig tree has two harvests. There is grain harvest and a fruit harvest. One coming is like the days of Noah and one coming is like the days of Lot. One coming is at the trump of God and one coming is at the last trump. One coming the dead in Christ are raised first and believers that remained are raised later in the summer. The other coming the dead and alive are changed in the twinkling of an eye. One coming the Lord himself comes and one coming He sends His angels. There are two raptures, plain and simple.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

So let me get this straight. If you want know what I believe you just read what the Word says and accept what is written. If I want to know what you believe I have to go through a personal interpretation and figure out what all you have made up. It seems much easier and more fruitful to just believe what is written. As soon as you make something up, you are off the path of understanding.

So, do the 10 Virgin Brides represent 10 women who are virgins or the whole church? Defeating your points is so easy my friend. Your biggest problem is you will not listen to anyone, then you put forth bogus stuff like this which is nonsensical. You only allow some things to be given in CODE like the Woman in Rev. 12, but you are not the author, so you do not get to decide what parts are encoded. And stop saying other people has made something up, just because you are too proud to admit you are in error. My calling for nigh 40 years is prophecy, you are not called to prophecy, that is evident.

They are the first fruits from the 12 tribes across the earth. That means there will be a harvest from the 12 tribes across the earth. Simple.

Israel is the first-fruits of the Wheat, we the Church are the First-fruits of the Barley. Paraphrase it anyway you like, it changes nothing.

 

[The Light]

So, do the 10 Virgin Brides represent 10 women who are virgins or the whole church?

Well let's check the Word for that.

Matthew 25
Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

Defeating your points is so easy my friend.

Only in your mind. When we go by EXACTLY what the Word says in Matthew 25 it tell us that the kingdom of heaven is likened unto ten virgins. When we look at the 144,000 it tells us that there are 12,000 from each tribe. The Word says nothing about the 144,000 being likened to Israel. This is just something that you have dreamed up because you don't understand that the 144,000 are first fruits of a coming harvest. You deciding to liken the 144,000 to Israel, is just you choosing to drive off the trail of understanding and blaze you own trail to being confused. Why do you find it so hard to accept what is written? Solving a problem that doesn't need to be solved makes no sense.

Your biggest problem is you will not listen to anyone, then you put forth bogus stuff like this which is nonsensical. You only allow some things to be given in CODE like the Woman in Rev. 12, but you are not the author, so you do not get to decide what parts are encoded. And stop saying other people has made something up, just because you are too proud to admit you are in error. My calling for nigh 40 years is prophecy, you are not called to prophecy, that is evident.

There are many that feel they have a calling to prophecy and yet they understand little. At least you have stumbled upon the pretribulation rapture.

Israel is the first-fruits of the Wheat, we the Church are the First-fruits of the Barley. Paraphrase it anyway you like, it changes nothing.

The dead in Christ is the barley harvest. The alive Church that remains is the wheat harvest. Israel is the fruit harvest.

The barley harvest will happen sometime during the Passover. The wheat harvest will likely happen on the feast of New Wine the true time of Pentecost........Tu B'Av. The fruit harvest will be on the Feast of Trumpets, you know, last trump.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Well let's check the Word for that.

Matthew 25
Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

That's the point, God uses numbers to identify things, in code. This shouldn't be hard for a Christian, unless they are just purposely being obtuse.

So, the 10 Commandments stand in for all God's Laws, the 10 Plagues represent Complete Judgment, the 10 days of tribulation via Smyrna in Rev. 2:10 = the Complete Church Age, not 10 days. The 10 Horns/Toes in Daniel represent Complete Europe Reuniting, you still looking for 10 Kings? That is why you can not see what it really means, God was not going to give Satan a heads up on the true numbers on anything, thus the 144,000 and The Woman represent Israel. The Romans (as I have shown you time and again, and you ignore it because it defeats your spin) would have destroyed any documents saying Israel was going to rule the whole world, and they would have killed those church members for treason. For some reason you either can not grasp this or pretend you do not understand the point. That is also why God used Babylon when saying He was going to judge the world, Rome thought they were the "World" and would not have allowed that to have been taught.

The 10 Virgins represent the Complete Church, of course, 10 = Completeness. The number 7 = Divine Completion, that is why 7 is used in the book pf Revelation over and over, that is why there are 7 Beasts with 10 Heads. Thus the 144,000 is a CODE just like the Woman is a CODE, you not understanding that changes nothing, its sad really your pride stops you from being taught proper Prophecy.

Only in your mind. When we go by EXACTLY what the Word says in Matthew 25 it tell us that the kingdom of heaven is likened unto ten virgins. When we look at the 144,000 it tells us that there are 12,000 from each tribe. The Word says nothing about the 144,000 being likened to Israel. This is just something that you have dreamed up because you don't understand that the 144,000 are first fruits of a coming harvest. You deciding to liken the 144,000 to Israel, is just you choosing to drive off the trail of understanding and blaze you own trail to being confused. Why do you find it so hard to accept what is written? Solving a problem that doesn't need to be solved makes no sense.

I am nigh near placing you on ignore, when you get to heaven and see you were wrong it will be too late then to use these truths. And you will be asked why you would not heed those called unto Prophecy.

There are many that feel they have a calling to prophecy and yet they understand little. At least you have stumbled upon the pretribulation rapture.

I understand the End Times better than anyone you ever met. You do not.

Carry on, just do not reply to me anymore, I have too much to do to waste time on people who have no capacity to listen.

 

[The Light]

That's the point, God uses numbers to identify things, in code. This shouldn't be hard for a Christian, unless they are just purposely being obtuse.

So, the 10 Commandments stand in for all God's Laws, the 10 Plagues represent Complete Judgment, the 10 days of tribulation via Smyrna in Rev. 2:10 = the Complete Church Age, not 10 days. The 10 Horns/Toes in Daniel represent Complete Europe Reuniting, you still looking for 10 Kings? That is why you can not see what it really means, God was not going to give Satan a heads up on the true numbers on anything, thus the 144,000 and The Woman represent Israel. The Romans (as I have shown you time and again, and you ignore it because it defeats your spin) would have destroyed any documents saying Israel was going to rule the whole world, and they would have killed those church members for treason. For some reason you either can not grasp this or pretend you do not understand the point. That is also why God used Babylon when saying He was going to judge the world, Rome thought they were the "World" and would not have allowed that to have been taught.

I just wonder why you have such trouble accepting what is written and find a need to solve a nonexistent problem that only leads you down the wrong road.

The 10 Virgins represent the Complete Church, of course, 10 = Completeness. The number 7 = Divine Completion, that is why 7 is used in the book pf Revelation over and over, that is why there are 7 Beasts with 10 Heads. Thus the 144,000 is a CODE just like the Woman is a CODE, you not understanding that changes nothing, its sad really your pride stops you from being taught proper Prophecy.

I never found the need to be taught prophecy though we can certainly learn from others. I have concluded that those who cannot just accept what is written are on a wild goose chase. The answer is given. Believe what is written.

I am nigh near placing you on ignore, when you get to heaven and see you were wrong it will be too late then to use these truths. And you will be asked why you would not heed those callee unto Prophecy.

I never have understood why anyone would ignore those that challenge them. I have never found it necessary to use the ignore feature as I can respond with what is written as opposed to what is dreamed up as a personal interpretation without merit or need.

If you ignore someone you can't see what they say........I think. Never used it so I don't know.

I understand the End Times better than anyone you ever met. You do not.

You haven't even figured out there are two raptures and the 144,000 are first fruits of the second rapture.

Carry on, just do not reply to me anymore,

If you go off dreaming up a personal interpretation when the answer is already given it's probably best that I respond for the sake of the truth.

I have too much to do to waste time on people who have no capacity to listen.

I have listened intently to what you have said and concluded that you fail to simply get out of the way and accept what is written. God went to awful lot of trouble explaining who the 144,000 are. If they were the Church, He would have said Church. If they were all of Israel, God would have told us.

And if they are all of Israel they are redeemed from the earth in Revelation 14. So your conclusion stands in error. Hang in there, the time grows short.

 

[brightfame52]

Did it ever occur to you that these 144,000 are without fault is because they have become believers in Christ?

Now let's let the Word shoot down your theory that they are the Church.

In Revelation 14 we see they are redeemed FROM THE EARTH. They are BEFORE THE TRONE IN HEAVEN.

Revelation 14
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

How can this be the Church if they are redeemed from the earth in Revelation 14?

Can you answer that?

The 144000 is the Church.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, a TYPE to show us about following God via the Law vs. the Spiritual gift of Faith, and how only the later can lead us unto God, we can't please God with our "Righteousness". But alas, Israel are still a people with a specific calling, which is without repentance, Paul stated this in Rom. 11, he also stated Israel would remain blind IN PART (as a Nation only) until the time of the Gentiles (SERVICE unto God) is finished or comes full. Read Rom. chapters 9-11 carefully, its about SERVICE unto God, thus when Paul states the time of the Gentile is come full, he's not talking about "our RULE over men" like in Rev. 11, but our service unto God, that is why he mentions Jacob was CHOOSEN over Esau in Rom. 9, and how God chose to harden the Pharaoh's heart, everything leading up to Rom. 11 is about SERVICE, we must not miss that, thus when he says the time of the Gentiles is come FULL (Finished) he then is stating that ONLY THEN will Israel repent as a nation, an we know this is true because of Scriptures, in Zech. 13:8-9 we see that 1/3 of Israel repents, and then in the very next verse (Zech. 14:1) we see the DOTL arrives (God's Wrath), then in vs. 2 Israel is sacked/conquered, then in vs. 3 (1260 days later, JUST LIKE in Matt. 24:29, where it says the Sun and Moon go dark......THEN Jesus shows up in vs. 30, that is also 126- days later, the IMMEDIATLY AFTER is speaking about the Sun and Moon going dark, not Jesus' 2nd coming in vs. 30).

Not understanding how to decipher prophecy is a huge problem with the church, if its not a persons calling, they should not try and teach others about prophecy !! You can say it 15 ways, you are still on error. God chose EVERYONE, you do not get that either do you? We have to reject the free gift. That was Calvin's mistake, he saw that we were Predestinated and did not understand what was predestinated, Jesus was a predestinated savior, we do not have to receive him, but he will call, thus those who go to hell have to reject the free gift of Salvation. So, we as humans make a FREE WILL CHOICE, God does not pre choose who will receive Him and reject him, He knows, but the choice is still ours.

Gal. three means just the opposite of what you assume it means, here is the gist. Unless there are no males and females now, then Paul was not saying there is NO Jews or Gentiles, cause he JUXTAPOSED the two, and Slavery also. The gist is new Judaizers came in, in Jesus' name and told the Galatia's you have to practice the Judaism customs in order to make it to heaven, so Pail scolds them, calls them foolish, says who has bewitched you so much that starting out in the Spirit (FAITH) you have n ow chosen to serve the Flesh ( trying to please God by the works of THE LAW). So, Paul showed them via history how Abraham was justified b y FAITH ALONE, and how the original Covenant was THE PROMISE (of Jesus' the seed) and was not THE LAW which only came 430 years later, because of Sin. Then Paul says, once the Schoolmaster has come (Jesus) the Law is no longer needed !! So, the whole chapter is about what? What do you guys miss? THINK !! The whole chapter is about how the LAW can not save us only FAITH CAN, (WATCH NOW) so Paul then shows how the Galatians COME UNTO Christ, by FAITH ALONE, just like Righteous Abraham, not by THE LAW as the Judaizers were trying to teach them, thus when Paul says there are no Jews nor Gentiles, no Male nor Females, he is speaking SPECIFICALLY about in the manner we come unto Jesus Christ, there is no Jewish WAY, and Gentile WAY, and no Male WAY vs. a Female WAY, we all come un to Jesus by FAOTH ALONE..........Paul is screaming, STOP trying to be Jewish in order to make it to heaven, you do not have to be Jew like, God accepts us all by FAITH ALONE !! People do not get this because Satan is slick with his lies and deception, all I did, long ago, was look at the JUXTAPOSTION provided by Paul, are there still MALES & FEMALES (LOL) of course there are, thus the point was was making COULD NOT BE that Jews and Gentiles are all ONE, he is merely pointing out the PATH UNTO God has ONE WAY, we must come unto Jesus/God b y FAITH ALONE, not by The Law !!

The sad part is, those who love their own ideas or other men's ideas will not accept this obvious trruth.

The 144000 is the Church

 

[Timtofly]

So let me get this straight. If you want know what I believe you just read what the Word says and accept what is written. If I want to know what you believe I have to go through a personal interpretation and figure out what all you have made up. It seems much easier and more fruitful to just believe what is written. As soon as you make something up, you are off the path of understanding.


They are the first fruits from the 12 tribes across the earth. That means there will be a harvest from the 12 tribes across the earth. Simple.

Here is the harvest.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

And here are those that are harvested from the earth.

Revelation 15
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

Boy that's a coincidence, those harvested from the 12 tribes across the earth are singing the song of Moses. How's that possible?

It's time you understood there are two raptures as the fig tree has two harvests. There is grain harvest and a fruit harvest. One coming is like the days of Noah and one coming is like the days of Lot. One coming is at the trump of God and one coming is at the last trump. One coming the dead in Christ are raised first and believers that remained are raised later in the summer. The other coming the dead and alive are changed in the twinkling of an eye. One coming the Lord himself comes and one coming He sends His angels. There are two raptures, plain and simple.

That is not the Scripture for the sheep harvest (Israel is removed during the first 6 Trumpets to the sea of glass). Matthew 25:31-46 is the separation of the sheep and goats. The winepress is God's wrath. Israel as goats go to the LOF, but not through a winepress. The winepress is after the 7 Thunders which is the wheat and tares harvest (Matthew 13). The winepress is the last of Adam's dead corruptible flesh. The 7th Trumpet is connected to the winepress.

 

[marks]

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

It's a very interesting passage. It's seems to me to look ahead at the coming separation of wheat and weeds.

If you care to take a look, I'm interested in what you think:

The Winepress of God's Wrath

Revelation 14:18-20 KJV 18) And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. 19) And the angel...

www.christianityboard.com

Much love!

 

[The Light]

The winepress is the last of Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

What Church teaches this?

 

[Timtofly]

What Church teaches this?

That is the Scripture you keep telling people teaches only one thing, so why would a church teach that?

Revelation 14 is the explanation of the 7th Trumpet. Revelation 13 explains what happens at the 7th Trumpet. Revelation 12 is connected to the 7th Trumpet as the third woe, Satan coming to earth. The 7th Trumpet declares the harvest is complete.

Why would the winepress of God's wrath, not be the final removal of every one in Adam's dead corruptible flesh? The 7th Trumpet is it. When it stops, the Millennium starts. There is no wrath and judgment in the Millennium.

Where is wrath found in Daniel 9:24?

When do you think Adam's punishment stops? Never?

"But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

Finished means finished. If all is finished as we know it, why would God continue the same old sinful flesh forever? The winepress is the last harvest of Adam's dead corruptible flesh. There are no survivors.

 

[The Light]

That is the Scripture you keep telling people teaches only one thing, so why would a church teach that?

I have no clue why you keep talking about Adam's dead corruptible flesh. I assume this comes from some denomination.

Revelation 14 is the explanation of the 7th Trumpet.

Absolutely not. Revelation 14 talks of the 144,000 being redeemed from the earth as first fruits of the second harvest. Then we see the great tribulation which is the 5th seal. Then we see the coming of Jesus for the harvest which occurs at the 6th seal, when He sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. Then the wrath of God begins.

The coming of Jesus in Revelation 14 is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal, is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24. This has nothing to do with the coming of Jesus at the end of the trumpets. Jesus comes at the 6th seal immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION and BEFORE THE WRATH OF GOD.

Jesus comes for the harvest at the sixth seal. Then the wrath of God begins and Jesus returns with His armies at the end of wrath.

Revelation 13 explains what happens at the 7th Trumpet.

Revelation 13 takes place in the SEALS, not the trumpets.

Revelation 12 is connected to the 7th Trumpet as the third woe, Satan coming to earth. The 7th Trumpet declares the harvest is complete.

The 7th trumpet is WRATH and NOT A HARVEST. The second harvest takes place at the 6th seal.

Why would the winepress of God's wrath, not be the final removal of every one in Adam's dead corruptible flesh?

Where does this come from? Not all will be killed during the wrath of God.

The 7th Trumpet is it. When it stops, the Millennium starts. There is no wrath and judgment in the Millennium.

Ok, good. So you understand something.

Where is wrath found in Daniel 9:24?

?

When do you think Adam's punishment stops? Never?

?

"But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

Wrath is over and God sets up His kingdom.

Finished means finished. If all is finished as we know it, why would God continue the same old sinful flesh forever? The winepress is the last harvest of Adam's dead corruptible flesh. There are no survivors.

All are not killed. The wine press is NOT a harvest. The harvest takes place at the 6th seal. The unrighteous are cast into the wrath of God. They are NOT havested.