"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

[GodsGrace]

and here you have it, It is up to us.

Lets all boast of how hard we work and how well we abide in Christ.

Salvation is not a gift freely given. it is a reward which must be earned

Oh really EG.
Have you read
Ephesians 2:8-9 NLT
8God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God.
9Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it.

 

[GodsGrace]

Eternal life.

Either eternal means forever. or it means conditional.

You need to decide what you believe

Eternal life means forever.
But the condition is that we must BELIEVE in Jesus for our salvation
and not fall away from that belief.

Revelation 2:4-5
But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.

Romans 11:19-22
Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

James 5:19-20
My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

1 Corinthians 10:12
Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.


And so many more....

 

[GodsGrace]

"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER

ONCE SAVED....YES....it’s FOREVER.

I see the DENIAL crowd, blowing hot air, curiously, conveniently:
HAVE FAILED to give their Testimony of HOW they were SAV-ED and LOST their Salvation...


@Grailhunter
@GodsGrace
@Renniks

Don’t be shy, tell us HOW you were Saved- and HOW you lost your Salvation.

@ScottA (Your OP, calling your attention to this post)

Nice to be in such good company!
Thanks.

 

[GodsGrace]

John 15 is about producing fruit.

John 15 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.

takes away - gk airo - to raise, to lift up, to raise from the ground, to raise up, to elevate, to lift up.

The interpretation should read, every branch in me that does not produce fruit in me he lifts up.

Jesus is using a term well known to the people he is speaking to. A vine-dresser raises or lifts up branches which are on the ground and ties them up. so they are not suffocated and can then produce fruit.

He also shows the other thing these vine dressers do. He prunes them so they can produce more fruit. Part of the pruning process is to cut off specific branches in that area that is not producing fruit, because it is dead. and you take them and throw them into the fire. When God prunes us, he is taking dead parts of our life and cutting them off and burnign them, which allows us to produce more fruit.

3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

the word clean here in the greek - katharos - made pure, clean, spotless, unsoiled,

we are already purified Jesus is saying, we are cleansed as paul later says by the washing of water by the word..

4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

Again, proving that John 15 is about producing fruit. not salvation.

I don't care for the Greek.
I'm not a theologian and neither are you EG.

I trust the theologians that have correctly, and to the best of their ability with what is available to them,
translated those manuscripts that have come down through the ages...including some new stuff they found.

No need for the Greek...
BTW, I agree with what you've stated above..
but the exegesis is not 100% correct.

 

[GodsGrace]

John 15 is about producing fruit.

John 15 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.

takes away - gk airo - to raise, to lift up, to raise from the ground, to raise up, to elevate, to lift up.

The interpretation should read, every branch in me that does not produce fruit in me he lifts up.

Jesus is using a term well known to the people he is speaking to. A vine-dresser raises or lifts up branches which are on the ground and ties them up. so they are not suffocated and can then produce fruit.

He also shows the other thing these vine dressers do. He prunes them so they can produce more fruit. Part of the pruning process is to cut off specific branches in that area that is not producing fruit, because it is dead. and you take them and throw them into the fire. When God prunes us, he is taking dead parts of our life and cutting them off and burnign them, which allows us to produce more fruit.

3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

the word clean here in the greek - katharos - made pure, clean, spotless, unsoiled,

we are already purified Jesus is saying, we are cleansed as paul later says by the washing of water by the word..

4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

Again, proving that John 15 is about producing fruit. not salvation.

PS
See my post no. 631 regarding John 15.

 

[GodsGrace]

Poor teaching of any Churches, any era, is accredited to poor Church leadership.
Shortly after the deaths of Christ Jesus’ Apostles, Gentiles were Clerics in the Church’s AND failed as Servants of Christ Jesus to teach His Word TO the masses of People who could Neither READ nor Had Bibles TO read!

1500’s, 1600’s....more people were learning to read. Few Bibles were available...Few could afford Bibles.....
1700’s ....1800’s ....more people were leaning to read. Printing presses were printing Bibles...more could afford to buy a Bible.
The People began reading the Bible for themselves....and Learning what their Corrupt Clerics had been teaching was FALSE.

You should Learn ALL THE WORKS God does IN A MAN WHO testifies of his own word unto the Lord and Receive their SALVATION.......then go Search the Scriptures of ANY PLACE, speaking of GOD “UNDOING” ANY of His Works IN A MAN...

It doesn’t exist!
God does not UNDO a mans Salvation...GOD PROTECTS and KEEPS a man SAVED!

I never said God undoes a man's salvation.
The man himself does that.
One must be a believer AT DEATH to be saved.
Not 20 years ago or 2 years ago.

The N.T. is written in the present tense.
Salvation and believing is always in the present tense.

 

[GodsGrace]

From where are you coming up with these DOOZIES? Do you even understand what salvation is?

Good night Enoch.
Try to be nice, as we Christians should be.
John 13:35

 

[Cooper]

Your last three post are simply accusations. That’s what happens when you can not support what you claim.

And they are true. I have shown you the truth many times from scripture and you disregard it.

 

[Cooper]

This is simply a Confusing Misunderstanding of God's "Work," in The Following...:

(1) "God’s SURE Foundation Has THIS SEAL”:

“The LORD Knoweth them that Are HIS!..." (2 Timothy 2:19 KJB!), Correct?

(2) HOW LONG Has "The LORD KNOWN them That Are HIS Own"?

(Ephesians 1:4-6 KJB!) = ALWAYS, Correct?

(3) For those who are LOST, how is it That The LORD Said Unto them:

“I NEVER Knew you”? (Matthew 7:21-23 KJB!) = NEVER, Correct?

Conclusion:

Thus, the doctrine of "Christ ONCE {Always?} knew one forgiven And
Eternally Saved, And, Then when they walked away of their OWN
FREE WILL, He [NEVER knew?] Did NOT know them Any Longer,
and they Became LOST!":

Is NOWHERE found God's Pure And HOLY Scripture, Correct?

Also, Contradicting THIS, Concerning God's Ownership:

"1Co_6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of The Holy
Ghost Which is in you, Which ye have of God, and ye are NOT your own?

equal FREE WILL? Cooper, care to Try Again?
---------------------------------------------------
...and a Whole Lot (12 DOZEN) More Plain And Clear Scriptures!:

God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's Eternal Assurance

Peace!

God's foundation is sure, true, and unchanging. NOT SO WITH US. Remember that.

 

[GodsGrace]

After justification comes sanctification.
No sanctification, justification is also lost.

Of course we are required to maintain our salvation.
You like Romans 4? Which verse?

Do you like Romans 1:5?
5through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name’s sake,

Paul was given authority to preach the gospel to the gentiles everywhere, to tell what God had done for them,
and so that they would BELIEVE and OBEY.

Believing is necessary.
Obeying is necessary.

James 1:22
But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not just hearers who deceive themselves.

We are told throughout the N.T. of how we are to behave and that good works must be done.
I prefer to believe Jesus than this new Christian concept that is not biblical.

Matthew 25:44-46
42for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
43I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’
44“Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’
45“Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’
46“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

@Enoch111

The above are doozies?
They're straight out of the bible.

 

[GodsGrace]

Peter received his Salvation AFTER Jesus returned to Heaven.
And no Peter did not “lose” his Salvation.

How do you know this?
I mean about WHEN Peter was saved...
Tomorrow.

 

[Cooper]

who delivered paul from the body of death?

The one who delivered Paul from his body of death is the one who did the same for all those who follow Him all the days of their life.
.

 

[Cooper]

You are not "right dividing" the word as Paul instructed.

Again...Paul was speaking about Old Testament issues of the law, and speaking...preaching to the unsaved Romans.

But I suspect that you will think that Paul himself was saved, making his counsel not about what he said, but what he himself was. But one could only draw that conclusion if they were blind to whom he spoke...and also to the fact that he qualified himself not as being saved or unsaved, but as being both, as being "all things to all people."

How many things do you intend to leave out, that you need to be told about? For the same reason Jesus had to ask the priests and the Pharisees, "Have you not read..?"

More errors!

 

[Cooper]

Excellent point!

Saved means saved, and never means never.

If anyone has an ear, let them hear.

Until and if we fall away the same as the Israelites did for example.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I don't believe Peter had any "salvation" to lose. I don't believe in "salvation" as a condition or state of being, as it is used in evangelical circles today. I'm mainly concerned with knowing God Whom to know is life eternal, which always begins today, and really kicks into high gear at His second coming. This could be expressed in many other ways. The Bible is full of them. I really like the Bible. It testifies of Jesus, a Person I'm really crazy about. I'm pretty weird. I think most people (including myself) are influenced too much by the teachings of men. I'm trying to get out of that. I believe it's a lifetime process. I think Jesus loves us so much that if we're trying to do His will we will grow up into Him in all things and help others to grow, as well. The modern obsession with salvation causes a lot of distorted thinking, I've noticed. Oh well, I've probably said too much. :cool:

The word saved means to be rescued

Peter was rescued by His savior as we all were.

If we are not saved, we are still dead in our sin

 

[Cooper]

Irrelevant accusation. No facts.

Israel's backsliding is a fact!

 

[Cooper]

Yes Jesus will say that, but not to me.

The Pharisees thought that too.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

EG,
I don't know any Christian that depends on himself for salvation.
Isn't this why Jesus died for us? So we could depend on Him for our salvation?
As to John and 1 John 2:19...did you ever study John and gnosticim?
Seems like you've heard it before...maybe it's right?

I know many people. Including yourself.

The sad part is they can not see it themselves. Or they are in denial.

If you're at all interested, the net is full of information for John's letters and why he wrote them.
Here is one interesting site...start at page 42 to about 44
https://digitalcommons.georgefox.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1361&context=wes_theses

I have studied the Bible for many years.

I don;t look to try to find people who agree with me, or who try to explain a passage of scripture in a way that supports my belief.

I look to the word itself.
[quot]
Regarding also THE ANNOINTED, please read the above link.
John was not concerned with atheists....but with false teachers infiltrating the church...
and mostly and basically gnostics.
[/quote]
There you go again.

John was talking about people who were in the church who left. And now denied christ

Just take him at his word. Even if he was trying to fight Gnosticism. That has no bearing on what he said about those who deny christ. And were at one time part of the church

I don't need to depend on John,
Paul also wrote of how we could forfeit our salvation.
Every one of his letters told of how we are to behave...

I'd also love to have an explanation of
Colossians 1:21-23
21And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

Its quite simple.

many people think they are saved, think they are reconciled. Think they are cleansed. As they go to church, and play the game.

But we find some, their faith is not real. They are playing the game, but they have not been born again. These people. Because they have not experienced Gods love, will eventually walk away, and not continue in it. Because since they are not feeling Gods love personally. He becomes a joke to them. Because he is not real.

You lose faith in people when they fail you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I guess they were supposed to?

What did jesus say?

How often I wanted to gather you as a mother hen, But YOU WERE NOT WILLING.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jesus died as an atonement or expiation.
He did HIS part...

Now we get to do ours.

Acts 20:35 Paul speaking...
35And I have been a constant example of how you can help those in need by working hard. You should remember the words of the Lord Jesus: ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”

Your part is to say yes. To get on your knees unable to even look up. And cry out for mercy. To become poor (bankrupt) in spirit. To call out on the name of the lord and you will be saved.

The penalty of sin is death Not your good works

If the penalty of murder is to recieved a death penalty. Doing a bunch of works to try to get out of the death penalty is not going to help you any. The ONLY way you can get out of that penalty is to have your penalty redeemed by someone who is not guilty of that crime.

Your works are as filthy rags. God will not accept them and payment for sin.