"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

[Eternally Grateful]

Of course the BELIEVER rests in Christ. The one who once believed doesn't. It's odd that people can read all the biblical warnings about apostasy and then pretend it's impossible.

John says it is impossible

Do you think God is going to give eternal life to someone GOD KNOWS is going to turn away?

This is Gods character and Gods reputation we are discussing here. We can not take this lightly

 

[Eternally Grateful]

1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

12 See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God.

13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

They have no root

If the root is Christ.

And they have no root

Then they NEVER had Christ. which is why they withered away. There belief was not rooted in Christ. it was rooted in something else.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Practicing lawlessness is descriptive of children of the devil and not children of God. (1 John 3:10) The demons believe in Christ in the same way that these many people in Matthew 7:22-23 believed in Christ with their head and not their heart. Romans 10:10 says it's with the heart that one believes unto righteousness. It's one thing to believe in your head "mental assent" that Christ exists and that His death, burial and resurrection "happened" and yet another thing to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4)

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus never knew them which means they were never saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their "attempted external obedience" (apart from the righteousness of God which is by faith and the blood of Christ) was stained with sin.

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people in Matthew 7:22-23 were not true converts.

amen

The demons KNEW who Jesus was.

They did not trust Jesus

a huge difference between knowing of (belief) and trusting (faith)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Of course. But it's not as if one cannot doubt and then fall away into non belief.

when you place your faith in a person, what causes you to lose faith in that person?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root.
They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.
It doesn't say they profess, they truly believe.
1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
You cannot abandon what you never had.


29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

They were actually sanctified and then fell away.

many come to church. and believe, it does not mean they were saved.

Many who think they are saved will end up on judgment day at the wrong judgment.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There's two kinds of ex believers in scripture...those who were always tares and those who once truly believed. Those he never knew were tares. They tried to enter through another gate, called " works".

no one who truly believed ever fell away.

they were not of us, if they were of us they never would have left.

we can not ignore what the apostle John said

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How sin can negate eternal life, per Paul:

In 1 Corinthians 15, Paul says they had heard him preach the gospel, had received it, and stand in it, and they are saved:

1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;


1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved,


If that’s all you read, you’d say it’s a done deal - they heard the gospel, they received it, stand in it, and are saved.


EXCEPT...


Paul’s next words make their salvation conditional, by warning them that though they’d heard the gospel, received it, stand in it, and ARE SAVED, that they can end up believing IN VAIN, ifthey don’t keep in mind all that he taught them:


1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;


1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, IFye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have BELIEVED IN VAIN.


What was it that Paul taught them that they had to keep in memory that he had preached to them, that can affect their salvation, and cause their receiving the gospel, standing in it, and being saved, to be IN VAIN?


He taught them that he has to control and subjugate his flesh daily, lest after preaching to others, he himself would end up a CASTAWAY - adokimos in the Greek. - a reprobate (rejected by God as one that failed the test).


1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.


By subjugation of his body, Paul refers to the flesh, the fleshly desire to sin, i e, commit works of the flesh, as seen in another of Paul’s warnings to the saints, to the brethren against being DECEIVED:


Gal 5:16 This - I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.


Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


Gal 5:18 But IF ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.


Gal 5:19 Now the WORKS OF THE FLESH are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,


Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,


Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell YOU again, as I have also told YOU in time past, that they which DO such things shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God.

Besides the “castaway” verse about becoming a reprobate himself,

He also warned the brethren to examine themselves to see if they were still in the faith, or had become reprobate (ADOKIMOS).

2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

if sin can negate eternal life.

The Christ failed to do his job

the law required perfection.

The cross removed the debt we owe God for failing to meet that standard.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

For crying out loud. If people abandon their faith, they must have had faith to abandon.
.

so God just makes mistakes..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

OSAS is not biblical.

It's up to us to abide,,,
It's up to Him to save.
John 15

and here you have it, It is up to us.

Lets all boast of how hard we work and how well we abide in Christ.

Salvation is not a gift freely given. it is a reward which must be earned

 

[Eternally Grateful]

F
Where does scripture say we are saved forever
NO MATTER WHAT?

Which is what OSAS means.

Eternal life.

Either eternal means forever. or it means conditional.

You need to decide what you believe

 

[Taken]

"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER

ONCE SAVED....YES....it’s FOREVER.

I see the DENIAL crowd, blowing hot air, curiously, conveniently:
HAVE FAILED to give their Testimony of HOW they were SAV-ED and LOST their Salvation...


@Grailhunter
@GodsGrace
@Renniks

Don’t be shy, tell us HOW you were Saved- and HOW you lost your Salvation.

@ScottA (Your OP, calling your attention to this post)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

John 15 is about branches being burned because they are not abiding.

The bible says what is says,,,
Not what we wish it said.
Reply to my post to you...just sent.

John 15 is about producing fruit.

John 15 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.

takes away - gk airo - to raise, to lift up, to raise from the ground, to raise up, to elevate, to lift up.

The interpretation should read, every branch in me that does not produce fruit in me he lifts up.

Jesus is using a term well known to the people he is speaking to. A vine-dresser raises or lifts up branches which are on the ground and ties them up. so they are not suffocated and can then produce fruit.

He also shows the other thing these vine dressers do. He prunes them so they can produce more fruit. Part of the pruning process is to cut off specific branches in that area that is not producing fruit, because it is dead. and you take them and throw them into the fire. When God prunes us, he is taking dead parts of our life and cutting them off and burnign them, which allows us to produce more fruit.

3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

the word clean here in the greek - katharos - made pure, clean, spotless, unsoiled,

we are already purified Jesus is saying, we are cleansed as paul later says by the washing of water by the word..

4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

Again, proving that John 15 is about producing fruit. not salvation.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The OSAS crowd look for scriptures to insinuate that no matter how much you sin or how evil you are, you are still going to heaven and heaven therefore will be filled with evil.

Actually this is wrong. OSAS do not focus on sin, we focus on serving and loving others and serving our God.

It is the NOSAS people who are focused on sin.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@Eternally Grateful

Are YOU SAV-ED? If so, WHY?

titus 3: 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[Taken]

titus 3: 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

That is not WHY a person is SAVED.
That is HOW He SAVES.

WHY ARE YOU Sav-ed?

 

[Taken]

Again, proving that John 15 is about producing fruit. not salvation.

Correct.
Biblical Example...

Two men hanging on either side of Jesus...
Neither produced FRUIT. ie neither DID WORKS to Glorify God.
One was SAVED.
One was NOT SAVED.

Producing Fruit, ie DOING WORKS that Glorify God....the person receives
REWARDS.

Salvation IS NOT A REWARD, it is an irrevocable a Gift.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That is not WHY a person is SAVED.
That is HOW He SAVES.

WHY ARE YOU Sav-ed?

I am saved because he had mercy on me.

Otherwise, I could never be saved

 

[Cooper]

Consider this:-

1 Kings 9:6-7 But if you or your descendants abandon me, and do not keep my commandments and statutes that I have given to you, and if you go away, serve other gods, and worship them, then I will eliminate Israel from the land that I gave them and from the Temple that I've consecrated for my name. I will throw them out of my sight, and Israel will become the butt of jokes and a means of ridicule among people worldwide!

Deu_31:16 Then the LORD told Moses: "Look! You are about to join your ancestors. Afterwards, this people will rebel and commit prostitution with the foreign gods of the land that they are about to enter to possess. They will abandon me and break my covenant that I made with them.

1Ch_28:9 "Now as for you, my son Solomon, get to know the God of your father. Serve him with a sound heart and a devoted soul, because the LORD is searching every heart, every plan and thought. He will be found by you, assuming you are seeking him, but if you abandon him, he will abandon you forever.

1Ti_4:1 Now the Spirit says clearly that in the last times some people will abandon the faith by following deceitful spirits, the teachings of demons,

Stop it with your false teaching, all of you. You say you are always saved! Do not bank on it.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Consider this:-

1 Kings 9:6-7 But if you or your descendants abandon me, and do not keep my commandments and statutes that I have given to you, and if you go away, serve other gods, and worship them, then I will eliminate Israel from the land that I gave them and from the Temple that I've consecrated for my name. I will throw them out of my sight, and Israel will become the butt of jokes and a means of ridicule among people worldwide!

Deu_31:16 Then the LORD told Moses: "Look! You are about to join your ancestors. Afterwards, this people will rebel and commit prostitution with the foreign gods of the land that they are about to enter to possess. They will abandon me and break my covenant that I made with them.

1Ch_28:9 "Now as for you, my son Solomon, get to know the God of your father. Serve him with a sound heart and a devoted soul, because the LORD is searching every heart, every plan and thought. He will be found by you, assuming you are seeking him, but if you abandon him, he will abandon you forever.

Stop it with your false teaching, all of you.

false teaching?? OSAS!! Here you need this BADLY cooper. Its the confessions i use.

Confession of Faith: The Orthodox Presbyterian Church

 

[Cooper]

false teaching?? OSAS!! Here you need this BADLY cooper. Its the confessions i use.

Confession of Faith: The Orthodox Presbyterian Church

And you can stop it.