Q for JW- KIEW?

[RLT63]

The second part explains the first part…..it has everything to do with Gehenna…..because those whom the God assigned judge will destroy at the coming judgment, will be sent straight to Gehenna…..those who may claim Jesus as their Lord, but who fail to adhere to his teachings, accepting instead false doctrines introduced into the early church by the ones fathered by the devil.

No need to fear what men can do….they can take away life from the body, but cannot destroy what God can restore…..the breath of life……be in fear of the one who can take life away….forever….that IMO, is what this verse is saying when the entirety of Scripture is taken into consideration. It was said to Jews, so how did they understand it?

That is ignoring what the verse says and reading your own beliefs into it.

 

[RLT63]

Yes, unbelievably, it certainly is a Jw teaching. A little known to most Christians and one that they don't like discussing in public, but yes, they do believe this! it is antichrist to think that you can substitute your body for Jesus' body for the forgiveness of sins. They are actually offering a a human sacrifice to God to atone for sins! Its utterly INSANE. All that they have to back this rubbish up is Romans 6:7 and 23 which they twist so badly that all context is missing! They twist verse 23 by saying wages are what we pay back to God for our debt. lol? but that is what Jws always do... Cherry pick verses and make an entire false religion out of it.

IDK how many times I have to post this to have it ignored by them! Paul is speaking about how we died to sin, were baptized into jesus' death, and live in rebirth to Christ NOW, in this present time. He is not speaking about our physical death!!!
Romans 6:1-2
1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

5For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,

6knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;

7 for he who has died is freed from sin. 8Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him

9knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
10Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

ALL that they see there is 6:7 and think it is our physical death.. NO CONTEXT IS PAID ATTENTION TO! It's literally crazy!!
Do not allow Auntie jane to derail you from this.

If that is what they’re teaching that is insane. Jesus died for our sins. That’s the message of the Bible.

 

[Cassandra]

We are all subject to the first death, because we are mortal. Christ died for our second death. I believe this 100% the wage that equals death is lack of eternal life.
Nowhere do I see that there will be a time with others will be able to learn after they die here. I think for those who have never heard that the Lord looketh upon the heart. There is appointed man once to die and then the judgement.

I love Aunty Jane to death--she has always been respectful, she is knowledgeable and this place would be a lot less without here. But sometimes we disagree.
I have NO DOUBT that she loves the Lord. Faithful witness.

 

[PS95]

If that is what they’re teaching that is insane. Jesus died for our sins. That’s the message of the Bible.

Hard to believe- I know. We heard it from both of their own mouths on this thread. I still haven't seen Jane or Kiew begin to try to explain how Romans 6 could possibly mean what they teach when read in context. That was the purpose of the thread. It's just not possible to defend in context. That's why I was so adamant about staying on topic.


KIEW- "God judged sin already= The wages of sin is death. God could not rejudge one on past sins in the resurrection) once they died. Romans 6:7 is clear--One is acquitted of all sin at death." Post 49

AUNTIE JANE-- "What is confusing? “The wages of sin is death”….at death we are “acquitted of sin”…..an acquittal is a dismissing of all charges."
She mostly diverted the topic after announcing that she was shunning me, but there they are-^^ the pet verses. Ro 6:7 and 6:23 in between is IGNORED. Just crazy!!!


Here are two quotes from the watchtower on it. ---

The Watchtower 11/15/95 page 19
Must those resurrected during Jesus' Thousand Year Reign enter the antitypical city of refuge and remain there until the death of the high priest? No, because by dying they paid the penalty for their sinfulness. (Romans 6:7; Heb 9:27) Nevertheless, the High Priest will help them to reach perfection. If they successfully pass the final test after the Millennium, God will also declare them righteous with a guarantee of eternal life on earth.

The Watchtower 5/15/73 page 312
What of those, then. who will be resurrected during Jesus' thousand year reign? Must these, too, come within the city of refuge and remain there until the "death of the high priest"? No, for these have paid the penalty for their sinfulness by their own death. (Rom 6:7) They have been aquitted of sin by going down into the common grave of all mankind. On coming forth from death they are now standing on a road that leads, not into the anti-typical city of refuge, but into everlasting life.

Now you know- educate others.

 

[PS95]

Aunty Jane
I have NO DOUBT that she loves the Lord. Faithful witness.

Faithful witness? Have you understood this thread? Witness of whom?
They deny Jesus' sacrifice for themselves and us. They replace him with their own dead bodies.
They believe that Christians are all antichrists.
You serious?

 

[Cassandra]

Faithful witness? Have you understood this thread? Witness of whom?
They deny Jesus' sacrifice for themselves and us. They replace him with their own dead bodies.
They believe that Christians are all antichrists.
You serious?

Of course i understand. did you not read my posts? But You group everyone in the same category all JWs are alike, / God has His people in every church. I said she is a faithful witness
He knows her heart. Just pray about it instead of saying stuff. I believe that if the Lord shows her and she is convicted, she would change.

 

[PS95]

Of course i understand. did you not read my posts? But You group everyone in the same category all JWs are alike, / God has His people in every church. I said she is a faithful witness
He knows her heart. Just pray about it instead of saying stuff. I believe that if the Lord shows her and she is convicted, she would change.

Cass, I believe also that Christians are dispersed in many churches. Please.
How many Jws do you know personally? I have known many. This isn't about them being nice or not. It's about Jesus. No one who knows Him can stay there ( ajw)- ever. I know of one person who stayed in for a time after coming to Christ only because his wife was still in, but he stayed only to help her get out. Otherwise, he would have been shunned by his own wife!

They believe lock step everything that is taught and teach it to others! They are not allowed to believe or say anything different! This is not just another Christian denomination- it denies everything Christian.
False teachers, false prophets, a false 1914 gospel, a different Jesus etc.
We have been warned to avoid them. I am exposing these teachings because the bible says to. If anything I hope it will help someone who is on the fence. What did Paul say? "Let them be accursed"? yes, he really did.
Wolves in sheep clothing and a brood of vipers who lock up heaven, LITERALLY for everyone xcept their elite annointed who can't even understand the bible, yet teach it as if it is coming from God Himself. . Case in point, this thread. You think I'm judging? Do you understand what that actually means? Jane has told us that we die to pay our own sin debt- NOT JESUS' BLOOD.<--- There it is. and you call this faithful? TO WHAT?

I will not sugar coat this religion. It speaks for itself when exposed. It destroy marriages, families and children and if someone want to leave thy are shunned. You see Jane shun me on here? I was never even a Jw. That's how they are when you show them why they are wrong.
Are there any nice Jws? Of course! But show them that you stand for Christ and will not back down, and show them why they are wrong and they have no way out-- and you will be shunned too.<-- That is in person of course.

So, you tell me if I have been faithful to Christ by exposing this awful LIE, or do you think I should call auntie Jane a faithful witness?

 

[PS95]

Cassandra,
You are SDA?
Yes, ok. they also teach they are the only true church and the world will attack your people and make you worship on a Sunday...and believers who go to church on Sundays have the mark of the beast, right? Meat is bad etc.. Paul addressed all of that as well. I don't mind if you chose not to eat meat or drink wine or what day you gather. But it's WRONG to condemn those who do. I spoke at length with a girl who is SDA about a month ago. She was very nice, but mistaken for sure.
JWs came out of SDA's.- Millerites/ Barbour in late 1800's I see why you have a Jw leaning.
I at least think that you guys understand Jesus' sacrifice! So, that's wonderful!

 

[Cassandra]

Cassandra,
You are SDA?
Yes, ok. they also teach they are the only true church and the world will attack your people and make you worship on a Sunday...and believers who go to church on Sundays have the mark of the beast, right? Meat is bad etc.. Paul addressed all of that as well. I don't mind if you chose not to eat metat or drink wine or what day you gather. But it's WRONG to condemn those who do. I spoke at length with a girl who is SAD about a month ago. She was very nice, but mistaken for sure.
JWs came out of SDA's.- Millerites/ Barbour in late 1800's I see why you have a Jw leaning.
I at least think that you guys understand Jesus' sacrifice! So, that's wonderful!

I dont have a JW leaning
We believe that Jesus is God.. and that by him we are saved. We then become a new creature, and want to do His will. (justification/sanctification)
Many folk who are Sunday keepers are God's people. Adventists do not believe Sunday folk have the mark of the beast. However, We believe there will come a time when a choice must be made, forcefully, to either keep Sunday or not be allowed to buy and sell. This has not happened yet This will come under the guise of the world becoming christian and believing that it is God's will. (The religious right is pushing for a return to a Christian nation. We have been expecting this.)

We don't eat unclean meats, and while some folk think they were made clean by Acts 10 (which if read all the way through, shows Peter saying to call no MAN unclean). And for folk who say it is a Jewish law, well even Noah knew the difference between clean and unclean.
Paul was speaking about meat offered to idols, but that's another thing. Do I fault you for eating pork? Hecks, no! OTOH,
Do i think you are one of God's people? yes! I believe if you love the Lord, you are.
As a matter of fact, we believe that a greater percentage of other churches will be saved other than ours. God will call His people out when it is time. From all churches including JWs.

As for Millerite/ Barbour, I don't know who Barbour is. I know a seventh day Baptist, Rachel Oakes Preston, brought the Sabbath to the Adventists.

The Witnesses start the 70 weeks at a different date, and believe, I think, that Jesus came in 1914.
We don't believe Jesus has come yet. We believe His coming will be visible and audible And soon!!!

 

[PS95]

The girl- I meant SDA not SAD lol- Yes, that's pretty much what she said too.
I doubt that sunday worship will be ever enforced, but if it is, it will be to worship a false god.
So, you will have lots of company in not obeying..!
Personally, I would prefer that churches met on Fri- Sat vs Sunday. But that's just me. There are meetings on most days/nights . Communion tends to be only Sunday though. There are still some Christians who think it's wrong not to meet on a Sunday, but I disagree. The bible doesnt give any day as compulsory. Every day is the sabbath as we rest in Jesus. I'm sure you've heard that before! So we won't go there. Nice to meetya.

 

[Keiw]

Yes, Kiew- death has been since Adam. We know that............ One step at a time with me, ok? YOU ARE IN REV WHILE YOU DONT UNDERSTAND PAUL! CANT DO THAT!!!!!. There is an offer of life through Jesus. Accept it or reject it. It's FREE. If you reject his gift you will die in your sins. You are not a spotless and blameless lamb who can die for to pay for your sin debt! you would be REJECTED! GOD GAVE HIS SON FOR THAT VERY PURPOSE!!!!! Dont spit in HIS FACE!! Do you believe GOD or the watchtower?!!!

RO 6:7 DOES NOT MEAN PHYSICAL DEATH! AGAIN- Here is the CONTEXT!

Romans 6:1-2
1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

5For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,

6knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;

7 for he who has died is freed from sin. 8Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him

9knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
10Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

I think that's enough to show the proper context, so JWs can see that Paul is not speaking about our physical deaths at all, but he is referring to our death to sin and rebirth to life in this present time!!!!

WHERE DO YOU SEE IT SAYING YOUR PHYSICAL DEATH?????????????????????????????????? IT"S>NOT>THERE!
Paul is not speaking about our physical deaths at all, but he is referring to our death to sin and rebirth to life in this present time!!!!

Yes by stripping off the old personality and putting on the new personality-Few do it. Eph 4:22-24)--Instead blind guides assure their flocks-YOU ARE SAVED--thus they do little that is required of a true follower. They know little of what utterances God taught.

 

[Keiw]

seriously?! then get your bible out and read it. Romans 6 but THIS TIME NOTICE THE CONTEXT.
PAUL IS NOT TALKING ABOUT YOUR PHYSICAL DEATH!
HE IS SPEAKING ABOUT OUR NEW LIVES IN CHRIST NOW. ( we DIED TO SIN) (BURIED IN BAPTISM) etc...!!!

Which Christ, there are 4 different ones taught on earth.

 

[Keiw]

What? No one is saying we don't need to repent! Of course we do! The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin!
Do a post do a sin? <-------what does that mean? lol
You are thinking someting I am NOT SAYING!
I am trying to get you to see that RO 6;7 does not mean you can die to pay for your sins. THATS CRAZY!!! YOU ARE THE ONE WHO SEEMS TO SAY...GO SIN ALL YOU LIKE CUZ YOU CAN DIE TO GAIN FORGIVENESS!
Now did I accuse you of that? NO. Why do you accuse me of saying sinning is ok? I never said that!
All that I am trying to do is show you what Romans 6 really means.<--- IDK why you can't see this. Ask questions if you have any.

He said-Confess your sins. That is a little part. Repenting and turning around gets ones sins blotted out(Acts 3:19)

 

[Keiw]

You posted a lot off words without saying anything. The blood of Christ covers sins. Yes you repent and turn away but forgiveness comes from Christ.

Matt 7:21-23= Jesus' words--Get away from me you who work iniquity( practice a sin( or willfull sin)i must confess i never even knew you= judgement scenario.

STOP derailing this thread away from your false teaching of Romans 6- that you can pay for your own sins by your physical death!
THAT is ANTI- CHRIST to sub your death for CHRIST'S! ------

JWS call Christians, antichrists, mirror mirror have a real wide eyed look into it, Jane. Your death can't pay for a single sin. You shouldnt even be allowed to touch a bible let alone come here and spout off your nonsense!

You said you are shunning me even though I was never a baptized Jw= thank God, he prevented me. So, why post on my thread? to derail it..... Do not post again or I will report you.

God teaches forgiveness--Jesus said 77 times if needed. We all make mistakes please forgive her.

 

[PS95]

Matt 7:21-23= Jesus' words--Get away from me you who work iniquity( practice a sin( or willfull sin)i must confess i never even knew you= judgement scenario.

God teaches forgiveness--Jesus said 77 times if needed. We all make mistakes please forgive her.

Kiew, I don't understand the point you are trying to make? It could be that first you need to understand that JESUS DIED FOR YOUR SINS! Once you truly understand that you CAN NOT EARN salvation- and praise god for HIS FREE GIFT- then you will be given the Holy Spirit and you will not be a slave to sin anymore------ That doesnt mean you will never sin again, but it is FAR LESS because you now WALK IN THE SPIRIT. THIS IS FOR REAL! When we sin, we are convicted by the Holy Spirit and we turn from it and receive forgiveness from our only MEDIATOR- Jesus who gave himself for us!! No one wants to sin but sometimes we fall, and we feel terrible because we only live to please the Lord!
read romans 6

 

[PS95]

He said-Confess your sins. That is a little part. Repenting and turning around gets ones sins blotted out(Acts 3:19)

I said repent. He said confess. I'm sure he knows to repent ( turn from it)! He would not want to keep sinning!!! The holy Spirit convicts our hearts. Seems you are trying to find words to pick at. It's a given, Kiew. Don't do that, just ask ok?
Even a little thing like a mean thought about someone-- we are convicted over. Conviction is not condemnation!! We find forgiveness in Jesus.
I will start a thread soon on Matt 7:21-23 since you keep bringing it up. It's not as scary as it seems.

 

[Cassandra]

Matt 7:21-23= Jesus' words--Get away from me you who work iniquity( practice a sin( or willfull sin)i must confess i never even knew you= judgement scenario.

God teaches forgiveness--Jesus said 77 times if needed. We all make mistakes please forgive her.

no 70 times 7 490 which by the way is the amount of days (years) given to Israel to repent (70 times 7= 70 weeks)

 

[PS95]

Matt 7:21-23= Jesus' words--Get away from me you who work iniquity( practice a sin( or willfull sin)i must confess i never even knew you= judgement scenario.

God teaches forgiveness--Jesus said 77 times if needed. We all make mistakes please forgive her.

Yes, but He actually taught us to forgive endlessly, unless we think it was literal and want to keep count up to 490!I have been forgiven much, so I can forgive easily. I don't know what you mean though? Who is her? Did you mean to type that?

 

[Cassandra]

Did you have Aunty bumped from this thread? What did she say that was so awful? I thought you wanted JWs to address what you write. To bump her is unfair, don't you think?

 

[Jack]

Basic JW doctrine: 'The Bible doesn't mean what it says'!