Q for JW- KIEW?

[PS95]

You’re ignoring the first half of the verse. It has nothing to do with Hell or Gehenna. Do nor become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. If a soul is just a life this makes no sense.

Neither does the spirit is just your breath, but that doesnt stop them! Back to Ro 6 now please?

 

[Cassandra]

The dead are judged after their resurrection, as Jesus said……which will determine if they can be repentant and turn their lives around, God can forgive them even as he forgave Manasseh…..a man who offended God by his wicked ways at every opportunity…..yet he was forgiven because he repented.

Manasseh was forgiven prior to his death. He repented in this life, not later.

 

[Keiw]

Jesus died for all of our personal sins. Is that what you mean? i'm sorry , but "all sin" isn't a sentence.
Do you see in Romans 6 that it is not speaking of our physical death?
Can i get a just yes or a no?

please don't jump ahead of me here. Let's stay with the basic meaning of Paul in Romans.
No one is saying that it's ok to sin.
Here are the verses of our topic again. Take your time to read them carefully, ok?

Paul is not speaking about our physical deaths at all, but he is referring to our death to sin and rebirth to life in this present time!!!!

Romans 6:1-2
1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

5For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,

6knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;

7 for he who has died is freed from sin. 8Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,

9knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
10Even so, consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

I think that's enough to show the proper context, so you can see that Paul is not speaking about our physical deaths at all, but he is referring to our death to sin and rebirth to life in this present time!!!!

Do you see that yet, Kiew?

Acts 3:19= Repent and turn around to get sins blotted out= your teachers teach darkness.

 

[PS95]

Acts 3:19= Repent and turn around to get sins blotted out= your teachers teach darkness.

Seems out of context. How does Acts 3:19 coincide with Romans 6?

 

[Keiw]

Seems out of context. How does Acts 3:19 coincide with Romans 6?

You are trying to present that Jesus' blood covered over all sin. Which is not truth.

 

[RLT63]

You are trying to present that Jesus' blood covered over all sin. Which is not truth.

It covers all who confess their sins and ask for forgiveness

 

[PS95]

You are trying to present that Jesus' blood covered over all sin. Which is not truth.

Kiew, C'mon now, I don't believe that you are this dense. I have posted all verses to show you that Romans 6 does NOT teach that when you die that your sins are forgiven automatically. That is the topic. Do you see that is not a true teaching?

 

[Keiw]

Kiew, C'mon now, I don't believe that you are this dense. I have posted all verses to show you that Romans 6 does NOT teach that when you die that your sins are forgiven automatically. That is the topic. Do you see that is not a true teaching?

God judged sin already= The wages of sin is death. God could not rejudge one on past sins in the resurrection) once they died. Romans 6:7 is clear--One is acquitted of all sin at death. Its why satan gets loosed for a little while at the end of the 1000 year reign of Christ and his bride( 144,000) To test the resurrected ones faith. Those who live through the trib and Armageddon have proven their faith but will be tested as well. God is love, the resurrected under perfect conditions get to learn and apply Gods will.( a 2nd chance) then satan gets loosed to test those. Rev 20 shows Many like the sands of the sea fall and get destroyed, the ones who remain faithful get their names written in Gods book of life.

 

[Keiw]

Kiew, C'mon now, I don't believe that you are this dense. I have posted all verses to show you that Romans 6 does NOT teach that when you die that your sins are forgiven automatically. That is the topic. Do you see that is not a true teaching?

I don't read long posts. So just make your points clear and ask questions please.

 

[Keiw]

It covers all who confess their sins and ask for forgiveness

Acts 3:19=Repent And turn around( stop doing the sin) to get sins blotted out.) Plus what your post says. None who do a sin, do your post, do the sin, do your post, do the sin, do your post will be forgiven.( Heb 10:26)

 

[PS95]

God judged sin already= The wages of sin is death. God could not rejudge one on past sins in the resurrection) once they died. Romans 6:7 is clear--One is acquitted of all sin at death. Its why satan gets loosed for a little while at the end of the 1000 year reign of Christ and his bride( 144,000) To test the resurrected ones faith. Those who live through the trib and Armageddon have proven their faith but will be tested as well. God is love, the resurrected under perfect conditions get to learn and apply Gods will.( a 2nd chance) then satan gets loosed to test those. Rev 20 shows Many like the sands of the sea fall and get destroyed, the ones who remain faithful get their names written in Gods book of life.

Yes, Kiew- death has been since Adam. We know that............ One step at a time with me, ok? YOU ARE IN REV WHILE YOU DONT UNDERSTAND PAUL! CANT DO THAT!!!!!. There is an offer of life through Jesus. Accept it or reject it. It's FREE. If you reject his gift you will die in your sins. You are not a spotless and blameless lamb who can die for to pay for your sin debt! you would be REJECTED! GOD GAVE HIS SON FOR THAT VERY PURPOSE!!!!! Dont spit in HIS FACE!! Do you believe GOD or the watchtower?!!!

RO 6:7 DOES NOT MEAN PHYSICAL DEATH! AGAIN- Here is the CONTEXT!

Romans 6:1-2
1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

5For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,

6knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;

7 for he who has died is freed from sin. 8Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him

9knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
10Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

I think that's enough to show the proper context, so JWs can see that Paul is not speaking about our physical deaths at all, but he is referring to our death to sin and rebirth to life in this present time!!!!

WHERE DO YOU SEE IT SAYING YOUR PHYSICAL DEATH?????????????????????????????????? IT"S>NOT>THERE!
Paul is not speaking about our physical deaths at all, but he is referring to our death to sin and rebirth to life in this present time!!!!

 

[PS95]

I don't read long posts. So just make your points clear and ask questions please.

seriously?! then get your bible out and read it. Romans 6 but THIS TIME NOTICE THE CONTEXT.
PAUL IS NOT TALKING ABOUT YOUR PHYSICAL DEATH!
HE IS SPEAKING ABOUT OUR NEW LIVES IN CHRIST NOW. ( we DIED TO SIN) (BURIED IN BAPTISM) etc...!!!

 

[PS95]

Acts 3:19=Repent And turn around( stop doing the sin) to get sins blotted out.) Plus what your post says. None who do a sin, do your post, do the sin, do your post, do the sin, do your post will be forgiven.( Heb 10:26)

What? No one is saying we don't need to repent! Of course we do! The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin!
Do a post do a sin? <-------what does that mean? lol
You are thinking someting I am NOT SAYING!
I am trying to get you to see that RO 6;7 does not mean you can die to pay for your sins. THATS CRAZY!!! YOU ARE THE ONE WHO SEEMS TO SAY...GO SIN ALL YOU LIKE CUZ YOU CAN DIE TO GAIN FORGIVENESS!
Now did I accuse you of that? NO. Why do you accuse me of saying sinning is ok? I never said that!
All that I am trying to do is show you what Romans 6 really means.<--- IDK why you can't see this. Ask questions if you have any.

 

[RLT63]

Acts 3:19=Repent And turn around( stop doing the sin) to get sins blotted out.) Plus what your post says. None who do a sin, do your post, do the sin, do your post, do the sin, do your post will be forgiven.( Heb 10:26)

You posted a lot off words without saying anything. The blood of Christ covers sins. Yes you repent and turn away but forgiveness comes from Christ.

 

[RLT63]

What? No one is saying we don't need to repent! Of course we do! The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin!
Do a post do a sin? <-------what does that mean? lol
You are thinking someting I am NOT SAYING!
I am trying to get you to see that RO 6;7 does not mean you can die to pay for your sins. THATS CRAZY!!! YOU ARE THE ONE WHO SEEMS TO SAY...GO SIN ALL YOU LIKE CUZ YOU CAN DIE TO GAIN FORGIVENESS!
Now did I accuse you of that? NO. Why do you accuse me of saying sinning is ok? I never said that!
All that I am trying to do is show you what Romans 6 really means.<--- IDK why you can't see this. Ask questions if you have any.

How did they get the idea that you pay for your sins by dying? Wouldn’t everyone be saved if that was the case? What would the purpose of Jesus death on the cross be?

 

[PS95]

How did they get the idea that you pay for your sins by dying? Wouldn’t everyone be saved if that was the case? What would the purpose of Jesus death on the cross be?

Hey RLT, You've hit the question of the century! All that they say is Romans 6:7..and then 23, which I've posted in context enough times to suffocate a herd of cattle!! Because Adam was sentenced to death and we also-- they think by dying you can pay your sin debt. It's radically insane and downright against Christ!!!
I said, "we allllll" die to my Jw family member and all I got was silence. That says a lot-- obvioulsy you have to be a JW and die for yourself.

Where is Jesus to them in this?_ they teach that Jesus died for Adam's sin not ours- but that Jesus gives us the chance to become Jws and then die for forgiveness.. and then go thru 1000 yrs on a paradise earth to prove ourselves in our 2nd chance life. If you sin- boom- dead.
Meanwhile these characters in WT HQ called the governing body will be ruling over them from heaven. Yes, those men who can't understand Romans 6.
JW religion is nothing but a lot of cherry-picked verses strung together which form manmade new doctrines.

It is the saddest thing. The men of the tower should never ever ever try to teach the bible!!!

 

[Aunty Jane]

You’re ignoring the first half of the verse. It has nothing to do with Hell or Gehenna. Do nor become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. If a soul is just a life this makes no sense.

The second part explains the first part…..it has everything to do with Gehenna…..because those whom the God assigned judge will destroy at the coming judgment, will be sent straight to Gehenna…..those who may claim Jesus as their Lord, but who fail to adhere to his teachings, accepting instead false doctrines introduced into the early church by the ones fathered by the devil.

No need to fear what men can do….they can take away life from the body, but cannot destroy what God can restore…..the breath of life……be in fear of the one who can take life away….forever….that IMO, is what this verse is saying when the entirety of Scripture is taken into consideration. It was said to Jews, so how did they understand it?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Manasseh was forgiven prior to his death. He repented in this life, not later.

Manasseh was given as an example of the magnitude of God’s forgiveness, when one is genuinely repentant……what makes you think God cares less for those whom he wants to resurrect, having already paid sin’s wages? There was no penalty under God’s law that was higher than death.

The dead have paid sin’s wages…..what more is there to pay?
From the point of view of God’s justice, to suffer after one has experienced the death penalty is not just at all. It is an overpayment for something we did not deserve.

We did not ask for this life….sin is not our fault…..but neither is it excusable when we know better.
God takes no delight in the death of the wicked, so how could he take delight in their punishment after death? Those who are incorrigibly wicked will not get a resurrection…they will remain forever dead….isn’t that justice enough?

 

[PS95]

The second part explains the first part…..it has everything to do with Gehenna…..because those whom the God assigned judge will destroy at the coming judgment, will be sent straight to Gehenna…..those who may claim Jesus as their Lord, but who fail to adhere to his teachings, accepting instead false doctrines introduced into the early church by the ones fathered by the devil.

No need to fear what men can do….they can take away life from the body, but cannot destroy what God can restore…..the breath of life……be in fear of the one who can take life away….forever….that IMO, is what this verse is saying when the entirety of Scripture is taken into consideration. It was said to Jews, so how did they understand it?

STOP derailing this thread away from your false teaching of Romans 6- that you can pay for your own sins by your physical death!
THAT is ANTI- CHRIST to sub your death for CHRIST'S! ------

JWS call Christians, antichrists, mirror mirror have a real wide eyed look into it, Jane. Your death can't pay for a single sin. You shouldnt even be allowed to touch a bible let alone come here and spout off your nonsense!

You said you are shunning me even though I was never a baptized Jw= thank God, he prevented me. So, why post on my thread? to derail it..... Do not post again or I will report you.

 

[PS95]

It really doesn't make sense does it? If it were true, there would've been no need for Jesus to die. So everyone who dies is forgiven? This is a JW teaching?

Yes, unbelievably, it certainly is a Jw teaching. A little known to most Christians and one that they don't like discussing in public, but yes, they do believe this! it is antichrist to think that you can substitute your body for Jesus' body for the forgiveness of sins. They are actually offering a a human sacrifice to God to atone for sins! Its utterly INSANE. All that they have to back this rubbish up is Romans 6:7 and 23 which they twist so badly that all context is missing! They twist verse 23 by saying wages are what we pay back to God for our debt. lol? but that is what Jws always do... Cherry pick verses and make an entire false religion out of it.

IDK how many times I have to post this to have it ignored by them! Paul is speaking about how we died to sin, were baptized into jesus' death, and live in rebirth to Christ NOW, in this present time. He is not speaking about our physical death!!!
Romans 6:1-2
1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

5For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,

6knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;

7 for he who has died is freed from sin. 8Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him

9knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
10Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

ALL that they see there is 6:7 and think it is our physical death.. NO CONTEXT IS PAID ATTENTION TO! It's literally crazy!!
Do not allow Auntie jane to derail you from this.