Did he say in the whole world or just the world? Are you trying to misread what Jesus said?
Preterism's Claim Of 70AD Fulfillment Is Silenced In One Verse, Luke 21:35
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It doesn’t really matter the point is that it says the world and the world is the world it doesn’t say a part of the world.
Here is a section from one of my studies on Matthew 24
Mt 24:14
14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
This shows that the disciples were asking about the end of the temple sacrificial age as the whole known world was preached to before 70AD .
Paul says the gospel was preached to the whole known world in
Romans Ch 1:8
8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world
and
Ch10:17-18
,17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ. 18 But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:
“Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.”
Paul also mentions it in
Colossians Ch 1:6
6 that has come to you. In the same way, the gospel is bearing fruit and growing throughout the whole world—just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and truly understood God’s grace.
and
Ch 1:23
23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant
.
Acts chapter 2:5
5Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.
This verse shows that Jews from all over the world heard the gospel in their own tongue and could take it back to their own countries and share the good news after they heard about it on the day of Pentecost
This shows what was meant in the term world back in the first century
Mt 24:14
14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
This shows that the disciples were asking about the end of the temple sacrificial age as the whole known world was preached to before 70AD .
Paul says the gospel was preached to the whole known world in
Romans Ch 1:8
8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world
and
Ch10:17-18
,17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ. 18 But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:
“Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.”
Paul also mentions it in
Colossians Ch 1:6
6 that has come to you. In the same way, the gospel is bearing fruit and growing throughout the whole world—just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and truly understood God’s grace.
and
Ch 1:23
23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant
.
Acts chapter 2:5
5Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.
This verse shows that Jews from all over the world heard the gospel in their own tongue and could take it back to their own countries and share the good news after they heard about it on the day of Pentecost
This shows what was meant in the term world back in the first century
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Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
I think that's intended to be insulting, and that won't win you any friends. I'm not a Preterist, but I have benefited from their emphasis on the fact Jesus was addressing Israel at that time, when he was giving the Olivet Discourse. The Gospel had not yet gone out into the nations. And so, Jesus' focus was largely on Israel as God's chosen people, and the Gentiles as pagan enemies of Israel and only future recipients of the Gospel.
With this in mind, what Jesus was prophesying had to do largely with the Jewish People. Their great tribulation would be an age-long position of being out of God's covenant, and for the most part away from their land. Even today, since they've returned to their land, they do not have God's Christian blessings--they only have God's mercy.
So the "great tribulation" was never intended, by Jesus, to be some future Antichristian persecution of the Church and devastating series of judgments from God against the Antichristian world. No, it was a punishment upon the Jews that is horrible only because it covers the entire extent of the NT period.
It is a "great" tribulation for its duration, and for the fact it includes all of the pogroms and holocausts of Jews in history. It is the longest exile in Israel's history, and thus a "great tribulation." It nearly destroys Israel as a people, and thus threatens the promise of God concerning their eternal longevity.
Preterism largely confines this punishment to the Roman destruction of the Jews in 70 AD and thereabouts. But Jesus said, in Luke 21, that it would be an age-long punishment, ending only with the return of Christ.
I do agree with Marty that "all the land" is a frequent way of stating that an entire *region* will be encompassed in some phenomenon. It does not mean universal in the astronomical sense, as we often view it today with our advanced scientific knowledge.
All the earth today could mean global. Or, as just mentioned, it still could just refer to everything within visual distance.
"World" thus means what it means *in context.* And if the context involves an entire civilization, then "the whole world" may refer to an entire civilization and not to the entire globe.
I do owe a debt to Preterists who have helped me focus on this missing piece I had in my eschatology. Jesus was *not* speaking largely of the endtimes, just before the return of Christ. In fact, in speaking of the 2nd Coming he intentionally marginalized its importance in terms of developing a prophetic calendar or timing scheme. It's value consisted of the fact it will eventually bring eternal judgment for what we are doing *now!*
Therefore, Jesus' Olivet Discourse makes sense when looking at the 1st generation, with its initial signs of the imminent coming of the Roman Army to destroy Jerusalem. Those "birth pains" only make sense as a witness to what was coming soon upon the Jewish unbelievers.
And so, Jesus told his disciples to flee when they saw the Abomination of Desolation, mentioned in Dan 9. This judgment was not intended for them. They were to "flee," and not expect to be "raptured." The Pretrib Rapture theory has less history than Preterism. And the historical view of the AoD and of the Olivet Discourse was also shared by the Church Fathers, for the most part.
I don't agree that the Antichrist was Rome. But Rome certainly was the beginning of the Beast system that will lead up to the future Antichrist. Just my opinion, and I'm trying to do it without insult. Not easy, huh? ;)
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Sure but what do you think the world means in this quote?
It’s the worldly ways not the people
Preterism is simply reverse prophecy. Everything that is future becomes present. It has no prophecy value whatsoever in the Bible for the NT church. It leaves the church without any type of word of encouragement which is null and void. It’s a dead end street for anybody’s belief system
You know what it means. There are different terminologies with the word depending on the context. When Jesus said it shall come on the whole world he meant the whole world, not just a section of the world. You have to read it carefully in context. You got to put away the concordance.
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Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
As I said, words mean what they mean *in context.* In this context, "love not the world" means to not develop comradery with the pagan world. The reference is to paganism, and not to a geographical region.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
We are in the age of grace, an age where many each day are coming to the knowledge of Christ. Dispensationalists and futurists. Only seem to focus only on death and punishment. The way I see it is this is the age where we receive the promises of God.
Iconoclast
Active Member
Partial preterism is about the ending of the old covenant and the ushering in of the new covenant
You obviously don’t understand preterism to make a statement like this.
I am a partial preterist not a full one and yes many of the Old Testament promises are a present reality today. We are in the age of many prophecies fulfilled today. Today the Holy Spirit resides in me and I am proof of undeserved salvation.
I know that my lord and saviour reigns and victory is His death is defeated and all of His enemies will perish. So you are quite wrong I am full of encouragement and hope and I am not on a dead end street but I am a journey to meet my saviour face to face
To be precise, the grace that we have is only a pre-millennial partial experience to be fully realized at the return of Christ and the beginning/duration of the thousand year millennium.
So any prophecy that mentions the world you believe by necessity, based on certain descriptions, is always in the future? How did you come to this underlying presupposition?
The old covenant never ended.Sinners are under the old covenant. Both Preterists and dispensationalists are wrong regarding this fact.
Fact is, your entire premise has a massive fail in its foundation. The law is still in effect. I can prove this to you throughout the epistles. The law is in effect for sinners and not for saints. This is something that both preterism and dispensationalism have completely overlooked. They’re both wrong.
Only born-again Saints are included in the new covenant. Sinners may not apply. Sinners remain under the old covenant. It is in effect to judge them and hold them accountable(per Rom 3) at the end of the world (per Revelation 20).
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