Predestinated to Salvation !
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Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
You must have one of them Ben Franklin "bibles" where all verses that don't agree with calvinist doctrines of demons have been cut out!
You know... maybe YOU are one of the ones the Lord decided would go to hell... going by your own calvinist doctrine
You got proof that you are "elect"? Did God send you and email er something... "Congratulations... you have been selected to be one of the Elect... at'cho momma and them proud!"
The calvinist cult believes these verses are lies... but the calvinists are lying
Titus 2:11,12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to ALL men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that ANY should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth ALL men every where to repent:
John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL men unto me.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for EVERY man.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
He's not the only one. Way back in 1672 the Council of Jerusalem declared the teachings of Calvin heresy. Not only that Council but was accepted by the whole Orthodox Church. Roman Catholics do not stress it but did make an effort to stem the tide of Protestantism with a very watered down statement in the Council of Trent in 1545-1553. Besides within the Protestant milieu Armenians didn't agree with Calvin in their own day. My guess is that most Protestants do not hold Calvin's views.
You may say numbers don't matter, but the Holy Spirit preserves His gospel as Apostle James said at the first Council of Jerusalem as recorded in Acts 15:6ff. Timothy repeats this axiom in I Tim 3:15.
After saying that, this caveat: It is heresy only if one is a member of Churches that have declared it heresy. If one does not belong to these Churches, one is free to claim anything they desire since they have no other authority greater than themselves.
Hey You!
Member
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
I see... so when a pervert RAPES a child.... you calvinists believe God predestined that to happen and made it happen.
Calvinism is doctrines of demons!
Hey You!
Member
Dan, I refer to something even more grievous than that; Selling a child into Slavery. The Bible says in Genesis 50:20 that God Meant this for Good. God can punish Sinners in real time through others. Who are you, to tell me that Slavery is less reprehensible than child rape?? What if one happened to me, and the other to you? How would I feel if you told me what I went through could have been worse?
Does child rape cross your line but Slavery doesn't?
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Hey You!
Member
Amazing Grace ~ by ReverendRV * January 11
2nd Samuel 12:7a+9a; Nathan said to David, “You are the man! Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, ‘Why have you despised the word of the Lord, to do what is evil in his sight?’”
In the mid 18th century, the slave trade was big business. In West Africa people would be kidnapped and sold, loaded into the bowels of a ship like cordwood and transported to Slave Markets around the world. One noted Slave Trader captained several ships during this time. He had spent some time as a Slave himself but was rescued. How could he be a Slave, and go on to become a Slave Trader?? It boggles the Mind! If there’s a God, this person will be at the top of a list of people who deserve to go to Hell for his Sins; wouldn’t you agree?? ~ The bad things we do, seem like nothing compared to this. Have you ever told a Lie? I have yet to meet a person who has ever said that they haven’t; what do you call someone who tells you a Lie? Have you ever Stolen anything; what do you call someone who Steals? ~ You ask, “Are you saying that I deserve Hell because of these small offenses? I can see the other man going to Hell, but not me!” ~ Let me answer that with an example from the Bible…
The LORD sent Nathan to King David, to say to him, “There were two men in one city; the one rich, but the other poor; and the rich man had many flocks. But the poor man had nothing, except one little lamb, which he had bought and raised; and it grew up together with him, and with his children. He fed it and it drank out of his own cup; and lay in his bosom, and was like family to him. A traveler came to the rich man’s house, but the rich man refrained from taking one of his own sheep or cattle to prepare a meal for the traveler. Instead, he took the little lamb that belonged to the poor man, and prepared it for the one who had come to him.” ~ David burned with anger against that man and said to Nathan, “As surely as the LORD lives, the man who did this must die!” Then Nathan said to David, “You are the man! You struck down Uriah the Hittite with the sword and took his wife to be your own.” ~ The prophet Nathan used the example of the little lamb to open the King’s eyes. David was not guilty of taking his own sword and killing Uriah, but he did put him at the front of a battle with Israel’s enemy; only God knew why David put Uriah in a ‘lose/lose’ situation. ~ Have you ever Hated someone? Then you are the man! Jesus said that Hatred is Murder in the first degree; you are now wanted for mass Murder. Have you ever Stolen? Then you are guilty of Nabbing! The Captain of the Slave Ships was involved in the Kidnapping of many Souls; that was an act of Theft. ~ David’s Sin only seemed small at first: how did you fare when your Hate was shown for what it really is?
The Captain I am speaking of is John Newton; a GIANT in Christian history. As his Sin ‘grew and grew’ into a monstrous burden on his Conscience, he had no other choice but to seek a way to be rid of it; wouldn’t you? While Captaining one of those Slave Ships and while enduring a Shipwreck, Newton gave his life to the Lord Jesus Christ. Over time, he would go on to become a Preacher and fight Slavery as an Abolitionist. He wrote the most famous Hymn of all time; ‘Amazing Grace’. ~ We are Saved by the amazing Grace of God! What is Grace? It is God’s great Love! It is God sending his own Son to live a Sinless Life and die on a cross, shedding his blood as a sacrifice for the remission of Sins. Grace is Jesus Christ claiming the Sinful record of all who will put their Faith in him as their Lord and Savior, and in exchange giving them his Sinless record so we can be Righteous. Grace is God raising Jesus from the dead, and one day raising all believers from the dead to be with him in his Kingdom of Heaven. Grace is God’s eternal Forgiveness! ~ Repent of your Sins and Confess Jesus as your Lord God. Join an Evangelical Church that loves the Bible; and Lost Souls. Follow him like a little lamb…
John 10:27 KJV; My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
God can turn evil things around and make it come out good in the end.
This does NOT mean God WANTED and CAUSED children to be sold in to slavery... no more than the satanic claim that God wanted Adam and Eve to sin and actually caused them to sin.
Those claiming He did are speaking in behalf of the devil and are in direct opposition to the Lord.
John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly
And by the way... whatever bad you have experienced in life... it could have been worse... much, MUCH worse!
Hey You!
Member
Dan, it means that God Meant to sell Joseph into Slavery; right? Let's not do the back and forth thing; God Meant it to happen, right?
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No, God did not mean it to happen.
God foreknew it would happen, and used it to His glory. Just as Judas was not predestined to betray Jesus, God knew that Judas would do this and used him to fulfill a prophecy.
shepherdsword
Active Member
You left out the "foreknow" part. He foreknew them FIRST and then predestined them to be conformed to the image of his son.
shepherdsword
Active Member
God , in his foreknowledge, knew the cumulative result of the free will decisions made by men and prepared things accordingly. It's not that he "meant" it to happen...he just knew that it would and acted accordingly.
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
No... the Lord did not cause or want anybody to be sold in to slavery.
Just because something bad happened does not mean God wanted it to happen or caused it to happen
God had fore knowledge of every human that would ever be born... and He predestined them ALL to be conformed to the image of his son calling them unto salvation.
The Father sovereignly decided to make man in His own Image which is why all men have free will. He said in His Word than we are predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ (Romans 8:29), and we are to be followers of God as dear children (Ephesians 5:1)
If someone rejects the Lord that's on them, not on the Lord... so people need to quit blaming the Lord for bad things as the devil has taught them to do.
And God did not block people from accepting Him as the calvinists falsely claim
Hey You!
Member
Let me ask you this; how does the Providence of God apply to God's Meaning for the Act described in Genesis 50:20?
Hey You!
Member
Providence ~ by ReverendRV * August 20
Psalm 145:13 NET; Your kingdom is an eternal kingdom, and your dominion endures through all Generations.
There are many false teachings about religion and often they infiltrate our thinking, causing us to have a point of view that God didn’t mean for us to have. Our verse reminds me of a couple of errors that have crept into the Church. ~ Open Theism believes in a Christ-like God, but one who has left us to our own devices; because he isn’t Omniscient. Deism is the belief that an unknown God created everything, and also left us to our own devices. Who would want a God that would leave us and not use his own devices for our sake? ~ The evidence that the Church has been infiltrated by these false beliefs is the diminishing of a very important teaching from the Bible; God’s Providence. You ask, “What exactly is Providence?”
God has the right to Govern his Creation; an everlasting Dominion that endures through all generations of humanity. In the Garden of Eden God gave Man Dominion over the world as its Governor; likewise God is our Governor. When we welcome our own Dominion, we validate the Dominion of others; if God is real; he IS your Governor. ~ The Theologian Jacob Arminius teaches us this, ‘My sentiments respecting the Providence of God are these: It is present with, presides over all things, according to their essences, qualities, relations, actions, passions, places, times, stations, and habits, are subject to its governance, conservation, and direction. I except neither particular, sublunary, vile, nor contingent things, not even the free wills of men or of angels, either good or evil: And, still more; I don’t take away from the divine Providence governing even Sins themselves, whether we consider their commencement, their progress or their termination.’ ~ But you object, “How then is it even my fault when I Lie or steal??” The answer is found in the Bible; Jeremiah said that Judah sacrificed their children in a fire to a false Idol; but God said it never entered his Heart and Mind to ‘Cause’ them to Sin. And the Bible says when Joseph’s brothers sold him into Slavery, that the brothers meant it for evil but God Meant it for Good; to save many lives…
Through his Providence, God governs us in a way that he is NOT the Author of Sin. The Bible says that one of God’s names is translated as “God will Provide”; God does provide us a way of escape! In the Old Testament Abraham was sent by God to sacrifice his only begotten son. His son Isaac noticed there was no animal for the offering, but Abraham knew that God would provide a lamb. As Abraham was about to Sacrifice his son, God stopped him and testified of their Faith. Over to the side there was a ram caught in a thicket of thorns by its horns; God provided a Substitute for the Sacrifice! The Lord Jesus Christ is our Substitute who was executed for our Sins; the religious people of that day meant this for evil, but God meant it for our good. Put your Faith in the Risen Lord Savior Jesus Christ and your Sins will be Forgiven; you will not have to pay the eternal Punishment for them in Hell. Repent of your Sin, confess Jesus Christ as your LORD; and find a Church that will help you along your way. ~ We need a God who won’t leave us without the use of his devices. We’re Saved by Grace through Faith; not by our own devices…
Genesis 22:8a ESV; Abraham said, “God will provide for himself the lamb for a burnt offering, my son.”
shepherdsword
Active Member
You are preaching to the choir. Calvin invented his doctrine when he was only 22 years old. Predestination was heavily influenced by greek philosophy.
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
Genesis 50:20
But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.
The answer is right there in Genesis 50:20... "they" were the ones that caused the evil to Jacob, not the Lord.
Jesus said He only does what He sees the the Father do (John 5:19)... so WHY is it you refuse to accept John 10:10?
John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Do you not find Jesus as being credible? Maybe you think Jesus is ignorant and doesn't know what he's talking about? If it steals, kills, or destroys... it comes from satan. The exception is times when the Lord uses His power to destroy those trying to destroy His people... which is actually self defense on the Lord's part.
This is an example of the eisegesis of the calvinists in that they read in to scripture things it does not say and reject scripture that does not fit with their preconceived ideas which did not come from God's Word in the first place.
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