Predestinated to Salvation !

[Ritajanice]

I can’t find anywhere in scripture, where it says that God willed Adam and Eve to sin?

He allowed them to disobey him....they chose to ignore his word.....

Of course he must have known before hand, what they were going to do....I just don’t believe he “ willed” them to do it...imo, that doesn’t even make sense.

I dunno...just my thoughts at this present time....

 

[soberxp]

Both understandings are correct to some extent. Because if God wanted to stop Eve from trying to know good and evil like God, he must have done so. God knew from the beginning that Eve wanted to be like God. So he made human in his own image. God didn't stop Eve. I think God knew how to deal with what happened. We have free will, and so did Eve. God wanted us to choose him on our own, so God decided not to interfere with Eve's free will. God had his own plans, but it was not God who arranged Eve's free will. It was Eve's own will.

 

[David Lamb]

Calvinism, and especially the "TULIP" HyperCalvinism, "the 5 points"... is not gospel truth, its "doctrine of devils".

In fact, when you teach the "L" in Tulip Theology....you are committing blasphemy, because the "L" in Tulip, is a Cross Offending Lie.

TULIP is not hyper-Calvinism. TULIP is an acronym that stands for the English words sometimes used as shorthand for what are called the Five Points of Calvinism. Those five points were written, not as a complete declaration of Calvin's theology, but were written by Calvin in response to five points put forward by Arminius.

I agree that the "L" in TULIP all too easily leads to misunderstanding of the doctrine (because it stands for "Limited Atonement", which gives the idea of fewness). I prefer the term, "Particular Redemption." Jesus Christ laid down His Life for those He called His sheep:

“"As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.” (Joh 10:15 NKJV)

Not everyone is a sheep of the Saviour. He said to some Jews:

“"But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.” (Joh 10:26 NKJV)

Notice that He did not say: "You are not of my sheep because you don't believe."

So if saying that Jesus did not die for everybody without exception is blasphemy, and Jesus Himself told those Jews that they were not of His sheep, and He had already said that He would lay down His life for His sheep, are you accusing Him of blasphemy?

 

[brightfame52]

Both understandings are correct to some extent. Because if God wanted to stop Eve from trying to know good and evil like God, he must have done so. God knew from the beginning that Eve wanted to be like God. So he made human in his own image. God didn't stop Eve. I think God knew how to deal with what happened. We have free will, and so did Eve. God wanted us to choose him on our own, so God decided not to interfere with Eve's free will. God had his own plans, but it was not God who arranged Eve's free will. It was Eve's own will.

Eve did sin according to her will[accountability], yet it was predetermined by God that she do so, same with Adam, and same with the serpent, all three worked in concert willingly, to fulfill what God had predetermined to be done. Just like here as well Acts 4:26-28

26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.

27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

 

[Rightglory]

Yes When Adam and Eve sinned, it was in accordance with what God willed and predetermined to happen. They did nothing which God didnt first willed to happen.

So, now you make God the source/author of sin. Why would God punish sin if He is the creator of sin? Why hold man responsible for his sin when in your theology God is responsible for our sin.

Where is this concept taught in scripture?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Both understandings are correct to some extent. Because if God wanted to stop Eve from trying to know good and evil like God, he must have done so. God knew from the beginning that Eve wanted to be like God. So he made human in his own image. God didn't stop Eve. I think God knew how to deal with what happened. We have free will, and so did Eve. God wanted us to choose him on our own, so God decided not to interfere with Eve's free will. God had his own plans, but it was not God who arranged Eve's free will. It was Eve's own will.

If humans were given free will then their choices are theirs alone.
To accuse God of being the author of sin and death is blasphemous! He went to great lengths to make sure that the knowledge he wanted kept to himself would never harm his children, but free will also meant that he could not prevent them from exercising it in a wrong way.

God educated Adam before he gave him a mate, and so Adam was responsible for educating his wife, which he did because she was able to quote her husband’s words back to the serpent. She knew what the penalty was, but the devil deceived her into thinking that she could get away with eating the fruit because it would make them ”like God, knowing good and bad”. It sounded appealing to her.

God was painted as a bad parent who was withholding something beneficial from his children…..the devil targeted her because she was the younger and less experienced of the pair. He made his offer when she was alone because Adam would never have taken the bait…..but when he saw what she had done, he was forced to make decision that would change the course of human history. His loyalties were divided and he chose to side with his disobedient wife rather than to lose her.

Nothing was planned, or pre-determined, but our all knowing God had contingencies for all eventualities…he would implement a response no matter what they chose to do. So, right away there was the Bible’s first prophesy…Genesis 3:15.
It would be some time before humans really understood what that prophesy was all about, and who the players were….but today we know. Jesus received his “heel” wound and recovered….but the fatal “head“ wound is yet to be delivered to the devil.

 

[Davy]

It was a pattern on how God saves sinners. 1 Tim 1:15-16


15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Paul still did not explain there how it was that Jesus DIVINELY INTERVENED in his life and converted him BY FORCE. And I guarantee, when The LORD speaks to a person DIRECTLY like Jesus did with Saul, it will get one's attention so they cannot question Who is speaking.

 

[brightfame52]

Paul still did not explain there how it was that Jesus DIVINELY INTERVENED in his life and converted him BY FORCE. And I guarantee, when The LORD speaks to a person DIRECTLY like Jesus did with Saul, it will get one's attention so they cannot question Who is speaking.

You are resisting the Truth that is plainly revealed, that Paul's Salvation conversion, the powerful grace that was exerted on him even while in ignorance and unbelief, was a pattern on how God saves, converts elect sinners 1 Tim 1:13-16

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

The word pattern is the greek word hupotuposis:

a pattern, example; a form, sample.

Word Origin: Derived from the Greek verb ὑποτυπόω (hupotupoō), meaning "to outline" or "to sketch."

Pauls conversion isnt duplicated, however, it served as a example on how effectively Jesus saves sinners, everyone who will be converted will have their own unique Damascus road experience, that fits their time and circumstances etc.

 

[Davy]

You are resisting the Truth that is plainly revealed, that Paul's Salvation conversion, the powerful grace that was exerted on him even while in ignorance and unbelief, was a pattern on how God saves, converts elect sinners ....

Nah... I'm just rejecting your silly attempt to make your idea relevant to Bible Scripture in Acts 9 about Paul's conversion. You never even attempted... to address the subject I was speaking of in Acts 9. So feel free to pull other single verses out of The Bible and TRY... to reinterpret them per your OWN doctrines of your flesh. Heck, you might even get to start your OWN religion!

 

[Hobie]

If humans were given free will then their choices are theirs alone.
To accuse God of being the author of sin and death is blasphemous! He went to great lengths to make sure that the knowledge he wanted kept to himself would never harm them, but free will also meant that he could not prevent them from exercising it in a wrong way.

God educated Adam before he gave him a mate, and so Adam was responsible for educating his wife, which he did because she was able to quote her husband’s words back to the serpent. She knew what the penalty was, but the devil deceived her into thinking that she could get away with eating the fruit because it would make them ”like God, knowing good and bad”. It sounded appealing to her.

God was painted as a bad parent who was withholding something beneficial from his children…..the devil targeted her because she was the younger and less experienced of the pair. He made his offer when she was alone because Adam would never have taken the bait…..but when he saw what she had done, he was forced to make decision that would change the course of human history. His loyalties were divided and he chose to side with his disobedient wife rather than to lose her.

Nothing was planned, or pre-determined, but our all knowing God had contingencies for all eventualities…he would implement a response no matter what they chose to do. So, right away there was the Bible’s first prophesy…Genesis 3:15.
It would be some time before humans really understood what that prophesy was all about, and who the players were….but today we know. Jesus received his “heel” wound and recovered….but the fatal “head“ wound is yet to be delivered to the devil.

Very true, we must not let incorrect ideas or wrong understanding lead to blaming God for sin and its origin, the fault is fully on the father of lies and deceiver.

 

[brightfame52]

Nah... I'm just rejecting your silly attempt to make your idea relevant to Bible Scripture in Acts 9 about Paul's conversion. You never even attempted... to address the subject I was speaking of in Acts 9. So feel free to pull other single verses out of The Bible and TRY... to reinterpret them per your OWN doctrines of your flesh. Heck, you might even get to start your OWN religion!

You are resisting the Truth, you cant receive it 1 Cor 2:14

 

[Davy]

You are resisting the Truth, you cant receive it 1 Cor 2:14

You are right, I CANNOT RECEIVE THE 1 CORINTHIANS 2:14 VERSE BY ITSELF! That's what 'one verse Charlies' do instead, just pulling out a single verse from The Bible and applying whatever notion to it they want, TOTALLY REMOVING ITS CONTEXT where it is written.

It's obvious that trying to communicate with someone like you would require YEARS... just to progress the least little bit in God's written Word, because you'd be too busy trying to ABUSE every verse of rebuke written in God's Word just because you don't like being REBUKED YOURSELF! That means you are basically a HYPOCRITE.

 

[brightfame52]

You are right, I CANNOT RECEIVE THE 1 CORINTHIANS 2:14 VERSE BY ITSELF! That's what 'one verse Charlies' do instead, just pulling out a single verse from The Bible and applying whatever notion to it they want, TOTALLY REMOVING ITS CONTEXT where it is written.

It's obvious that trying to communicate with someone like you would require YEARS... just to progress the least little bit in God's written Word, because you'd be too busy trying to ABUSE every verse of rebuke written in God's Word just because you don't like being REBUKED YOURSELF! That means you are basically a HYPOCRITE.

You admit you cant receive the truth, thats a start

 

[Davy]

You admit you cant receive the truth, thats a start

No, that is YOUR FALSE claim, and your false claim is from the devil, you just don't know it yet.

Those in Christ with The Holy Spirit unction are NOT to brag about it, because even like Apostle Paul who was given many revelations by The Spirit, at the same time God put a thorn in Paul's side to buffet him from any boasting he might think to have about it.

So what you have done with your false application of that one 1 Cor.2:14 verse thrown at me is to mock The Holy Spirit unction I have been given instead, when you 'thought'... you were mocking me personally.

And because you have done such a thing, now YOU are 'cut off' from understanding in God's Word. You have done that to yourself, and it will be in effect until you REPENT to The Father through His Son Jesus Christ.

 

[JLB]

I can’t find anywhere in scripture, where it says that God willed Adam and Eve to sin?

Amen.

Calvinism = doctrine of demons that the Holy Spirit warned us about.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons. 1 Timothy 4:1


Who else but a demon would come up with a doctrine that teaches God willed for Adam and Eve to sin?

 

[brightfame52]

@JLB

Amen.

Calvinism = doctrine of demons that the Holy Spirit warned us about.

Wow this is what you call the Gospel ! Thats not good friend, may God have mercy on you

 

[JLB]

@JLB



Wow this is what you call the Gospel ! Thats not good friend, may God have mercy on you

I pray you repent of spreading the false teaching of hyper Calvinism which is heresy.


Heresy is a work of the flesh, in which those who promote it will not inherit the kingdom of God.


Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

• those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 2 Timothy 2:10



For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16



God loves the unsaved people of the world, and desires for them to be saved.



For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2:3-4




JLB

 

[brightfame52]

@JLB

I pray you repent of spreading the false teaching of hyper Calvinism which is heresy.

Im witnessing the Gospel of the Kingdom, which includes the Truths of Tulip/predestination, you calling heresy. It happened in Paul's day Acts 24:14


But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

 

[Dan Clarkston]

He chose the same people in Christ before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4-5

Actually... according to scripture God called and predestined all that He foreknew to salvation which is EVERYONE.

Just because not all people are born again finding the narrow path that leads to life as Jesus tells us in Matthew 7:13-14 does not mean the Lord did not provide for ALL people to have salvation thru Jesus Christ

Notice in Matthew 7:13-14 that according to Jesus, it's each person's responsibility to fin the narrow path that leads to life and Jesus did NOT say God has appointed those finding the narrow path to find it and those not finding the narrow parth God has appointed to go to hell... only deranged and blinded followers of the calvinism cult think this.


Limited Atonement is FALSE

Romans 8:29,30
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

NOTE - Romans 8:29,30 is not saying all are automatically saved which would be the false doctrine of universalism, but rather is teaching us that God has in fact provided opportunity for all to be saved which is evident in the scripture references below

Romans 1:19-21
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Titus 2:11,12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to ALL men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that ANY should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth ALL men every where to repent:

John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL men unto me.

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for EVERY man.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.


... now, watch all the calvinists and those influenced by the false doctrines of the calvinist cult try to twist or discount all these scripture references claiming what God says is not true...

Just like we see in the garden of eden... you know it's the devil speaking when they claim what God says is not true.

That's how we know they are speaking in behalf of satan the adversary

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Im witnessing the Gospel of the Kingdom, which includes the Truths of Tulip

ALL 5 point of the tulip heresy are doctrines of demons.... those following such nonsense must twist scripture and ignore scripture to hold their position which they can do thru the power and abilities demons provide to them in their efforts to deceive others.

Besides, if they really believe God has already decided who will be saved and who will go to hell.... why would they be hear arguing in desperate fear trying to get others to see things their false cult teaches?

If they really believed their own doctrine they would not be wasting time even associating with those they because God has pre-ordained to go to hell who have no opportunity for salvation
Another way we know those deceived by the calvinist cult don't even really believe what they claim to be true