Perseverance of the Saints is different from Once Saved Always Saved

[St. SteVen]

Notice that a Christian's eternal security is not a "once saved always saved" but one of perseverance as written clearly in that last paragraph in the answer to Q1 -

"Because I belong to him, Christ, by his Holy Spirit, assures me of eternal life and makes me wholeheartedly willing and ready from now on to live for him."

Interesting topic. Good research, thanks.

This is my position:

We cannot by an act of our own will undo what only God could do in the first place.
Even in the case of reprobation it is God's choice. And the will of the Good Shepherd is to return the lost sheep to the fold.

To claim the caveat of works on the salvation of humankind is not salvation by grace. (not by works)
Will everyone have to wait and see if they made it? A mockery of eternal security.

--- PARODY ---
OSAS person: Are you saved?
NOSAS person: What do you mean?
OSAS person: Do you have salvation in Jesus Christ?
NOSAS person: No one does.
OSAS person: Seriously?
NOSAS person: Yes. You have to persevere to the end.
OSAS person: So, you have to wait and see?
NOSAS person: I suppose so.
OSAS person: What if you don't make it?
NOSAS person: I guess I'm toast.
OSAS person: That's tragic!

]

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Agreed but it’s misleading

Let’s just call it what it is eternal security.

It’s funny how tulip is afraid of faith in God being a work then promote we persevere. That’s why doctrines are foolish let’s just stick with the word

Well those who believe in TULIP exalt that faith in God alone is what saves us! Remember TULIP was coined 400 years ago and there is a different understanding than what many think today.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Perseverance of the Saints is different from Once Saved Always Saved

Perseverance of the Saints is false doctrine just like Once Saved Always Saved

From The Heidelberg Catechism (1563) as presented online by the Christian Reformed Church in North America

So called reformed theology is false doctrine derived from scripture twisting and eisegesis inspired by demons resulting in the doctrine of demons being taught as though it was God's Word.

Reformed people think they are the only ones saved which is always hilarious to hear.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

I like the term, "preservation of the saints."

I've known reformed people that live in open sin and falsely believe the Lord is preserving them to go to Heaven anyway.... they going to be shocked when Jesus tells them "depart from me you worker of iniquity!"

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I've known reformed people that live in open sin and falsely believe the Lord is preserving them to go to Heaven anyway.... they going to be shocked when Jesus tells them "depart from me you worker of iniquity!"

So because you saw people living in sin, you tossed truth out with teh hypocrisy.

Scripture is absolutely clear, once a person is saved they are saved forever.

But for your benefit let me say this: Just praying a prayer does not make one saved. Going to church does not make one saved, doing all sorts of good deeds does not make one saved. Being born from above is what makes one saved. We exchange our old sinful nature for a nature that desires god.

 

[mailmandan]

I've known reformed people that live in open sin and falsely believe the Lord is preserving them to go to Heaven anyway.... they going to be shocked when Jesus tells them "depart from me you worker of iniquity!"

There are genuine Christians and there are nominal/pseudo Christians.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

There are genuine Christians and there are nominal/pseudo Christians.

And then there are so called "christians" that spread satan's version of the gospel which is reformed theology

It's easy to spot them because they don't accept the whole counsel of God.

Jesus told us there are tares among wheat... the children of the devil coming up among the Children of God.

 

[BlessedPeace]

This is unrelated to my comment. This isn't even the same topic either. I am speaking about Calvin's Reformed doctrines, i.e. TULIP, not Luther's Protestant Reformation. Please take time to find out the difference.

Baby steps.

I knew I was right.

It's worse than I thought.

 

[Runningman]

I knew I was right.

How is being alone and right in your own eyes working out for you so far? You know, sometimes it's better to not double down. The Reformation Doctrine isn't the same thing as the Reformed Doctrine. You know that, too, and you still said you're right. You have a huge ego I see.

It's worse than I thought.

Indeed, it is.

 

[Runningman]

I've known reformed people that live in open sin and falsely believe the Lord is preserving them to go to Heaven anyway.... they going to be shocked when Jesus tells them "depart from me you worker of iniquity!"

You're right except the being told to depart is more akin to an unceremonious throwing out.

The sad thing is their doctrines do ultimately allow for the sinning as much as one wants even though I know OSAS and Calvinist folk will say everything to downplay this.

 

[BlessedPeace]

How is being alone and right in your own eyes working out for you so far? You know, sometimes it's better to not double down. The Reformation Doctrine isn't the same thing as the Reformed Doctrine. You know that, too, and you still said you're right. You have a huge ego I see.

Indeed, it is.

In case anyone takes seriously your insistent effort to mislead newbie Elect here .

What is Reformed Theology? | GotQuestions.org

What is Reformed Theology / Reform Theology? How does Reformed Theology differ from Dispensationalism?

www.gotquestions.org

"Broadly speaking, Reformed theology includes any system of belief that traces its roots back to the Protestant Reformation of the 16th Century. Of course, the Reformers themselves traced their doctrine to Scripture, as indicated by their credo of “sola scriptura,” so Reformed theology is not a “new” belief system but one that seeks to continue apostolic doctrine..." More at link

 

[BlessedPeace]

You're right except the being told to depart is more akin to an unceremonious throwing out.

The sad thing is their doctrines do ultimately allow for the sinning as much as one wants even though I know OSAS and Calvinist folk will say everything to downplay this.

That's a lie. No downplaying about it. Bearing false witness is your sin.

 

[GodsGrace]

YOu must remember TULIP is merely an acronym. Teh definition are what are important and ewternal security is the meaning behind perseverance of the saints.

Perseverance of the Saints is incorrect.
Eternal Security is correct as it's understood by most Christians....that security is eternal IN JESUS.
OSAS cannot be correct.

Following is a good explanation: God has CONDITIONS:

Let's take another example, Galatians 6:9: "And let us not be weary in well doing; for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. The condition that must be met, before the promise to reap can be fulfilled, is that we must not faint. So if we faint, then it follows that we shall not reap.

But it also follows that if we have reaped, then it must be true that we did not faint. Otherwise, if we reaped and yet we did faint, then it must be true that we will reap whether we faint or not. This makes the conditional statement absolutely useless and the verse nonsensical: we shall reap if do not faint and we shall reap if we do faint. No matter what we do, we shall reap. But if this be the case, then Paul's warning against fainting is meaningless and utter nonsense. Why encourage people not to faint when in actuality it does not matter if they do or they don't.

source: Why Eternal Security Is Not a Biblical Doctrine

 

[Runningman]

In case anyone takes seriously your insistent effort to mislead newbie Elect here .

What is Reformed Theology? | GotQuestions.org

What is Reformed Theology / Reform Theology? How does Reformed Theology differ from Dispensationalism?

www.gotquestions.org

"Broadly speaking, Reformed theology includes any system of belief that traces its roots back to the Protestant Reformation of the 16th Century. Of course, the Reformers themselves traced their doctrine to Scripture, as indicated by their credo of “sola scriptura,” so Reformed theology is not a “new” belief system but one that seeks to continue apostolic doctrine..." More at link

5 Point Calvinism isn't the same thing as Luther's 95 Theses nor are they compatible on all points even if they both fall under the umbrella of Protestantism. You're using what is called a category error. This thread is not even about the Reformation movement. Since you didn't seem to know, Reformed is another name for Calvinism.

 

[Runningman]

That's a lie. No downplaying about it. Bearing false witness is your sin.

Let he (or she) who is without sin cast the first stone.

 

[Behold]

Why encourage people not to faint when in actuality it does not matter if they do or they don't.

Your verses are referring to Discipleship.. not to Salvation.

When Paul says, "ive finished my course, and there is laid up for me in HEAVEN">.

See that?
That's Discipleship, not Salvation.

Salvation, is the "GIFT of Salvation", and you don't "reap" that, you receive it, as "The Gift of Salvation.

And now that the born again CHRISTIAN, has received eternal Salvation, they are to enter the race, and get on the course, and all that is really just this verse.

A.) = "Present your body, as a living Sacrifice, to God, which is your reasonable SERVICE".

See that "presenting" and that "service". ??????????????. that is your DISCIPLESHIP.. and the CHRISTian is doing that daily, because they have already been born again, as a '"New Creation in Christ"....
Christians are not to serve God to try to stay saved, or keep from losing their Salvation... they are to serve God because they are already SAVED, forever., and because that has happened, its a "reasonable service" to give your life to God., not to stay saved, but because you already ARE Saved.

 

[GodsGrace]

Your verses are referring to Discipleship.. not to Salvation.

When Paul says, "ive finished my course, and there is laid up for me in HEAVEN">.

See that?
That's Discipleship, not Salvation.

Salvation, is the "GIFT of Salvation", and you don't "reap" that, you receive it, as "The Gift of Salvation.

And now that the born again CHRISTIAN, has received eternal Salvation, they are to enter the race, and get on the course, and all that is really just this verse.

A.) = "Present your body, as a living Sacrifice, to God, as your reasonable SERVICE".

See that "presenting" and that "service".. that is your DISCIPLESHIP.. and the CHRISTian is doing that daily, because they have already been born again, as a '"New Creation in Christ"....
Christians are not to serve God to try to stay saved, or keep from losing their Salvation... they are to serve God because they are already SAVED, forever., and because that has happened, its a "reasonable service" to give your life to God., not to stay saved, but because you already ARE Saved.

Yes Behold.
But here's how I see it:
When JESUS says something...I tend to listen to what HE says.

I know you're a nice person and most probably live a good and better Christianly life than I do...
BUT
preaching that a person could NEVER lose their salvation is not only incorrect because it's not what the NT teaches...
it's also VERY DANGEROUS because unlike yourself, it could cause some to NOT reap and thus forfeit their salvation.

Here's what Paul said:

1 Corinthians 9:26-27
26Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; 27but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

If you're going to reply with a verse, could you find one that states you can never forfeit your salvation?

To establish your belief, it would really take more than one verse that states this.

 

[GodsGrace]

You're right except the being told to depart is more akin to an unceremonious throwing out.

The sad thing is their doctrines do ultimately allow for the sinning as much as one wants even though I know OSAS and Calvinist folk will say everything to downplay this.

Is that you RM?

We agree 100% on this.
I'm not sure about the Reformed....most tend to live according to their beliefs...maybe, I mean, who could be sure?

But, yes, the OSAS crowd DO believe they could live as they wish and still be saved.
I know this because this has been clearly stated on the other forum....I was there a long time and the stuff I heard was pretty amazing.
They actually say that no matter what they do, they will be saved because it's Jesus that will save them.

An extreme form of Monergism I believe.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Let he (or she) who is without sin cast the first stone.

I did. :)

And you now admit you lied. That's a start. Though contrition is not your nature.

 

[GodsGrace]

In case anyone takes seriously your insistent effort to mislead newbie Elect here .

What is Reformed Theology? | GotQuestions.org

What is Reformed Theology / Reform Theology? How does Reformed Theology differ from Dispensationalism?

www.gotquestions.org

"Broadly speaking, Reformed theology includes any system of belief that traces its roots back to the Protestant Reformation of the 16th Century. Of course, the Reformers themselves traced their doctrine to Scripture, as indicated by their credo of “sola scriptura,” so Reformed theology is not a “new” belief system but one that seeks to continue apostolic doctrine..." More at link

Wow BP !
@Runningman is right.
It's worse than I thought.
You don't even know what you believe!

Your video CLEARLY states that reformed theology includes TULIP.

There's a difference between theology of the Reformation (which includes some reformed theology)
and
Reformed Theology which is known as Calvinism.

In fact, Protestantism, which came out of the Reformation, has abandoned Reformed Theology because it plainly goes against the teachings of the NT.

Only those denominations (maybe 3 that I could think of) that still accept Calvinism remain.
Calvinism is just another name for Reformed Theology because Calvin was the most charismatic of the bunch....
or maybe the meanest - I'm not sure.