OSAS : Gnostic Heresy

[BlessedPeace]

Yes I was attending a SDA Church for around 3 months, and their teaching is that Jesus came into existence when He was born. They say before that time, God never had a Son.

As soon as I found out that they were teaching heresy I left

The Quran says that of Allah as regards the Muslim denial that Isa (Jesus) was the Son of God,Allah, because the Quran says Allah has no Son.

Verses from the qur'an about Allah has no son

Read the verses from the Qur'an which mention Allah (swt) being alone without a partner or son (total of 13 ayat/verses).

myislam.org

Maybe you attended a different kind of SDA church? Unless Adventists aren't the same as SDA , this Adventist site doesn't say that about Yeshua-Jesus.

What Adventists Believe About God the Son | adventist.org

Adventist believe that Jesus is the Son of God. We believe that Jesus died for our sins to make a way for our salvation.

www.adventist.org

The Bible frequently mentions the “Son of God.” But how can God have a “son,” and what should that mean to us?

Let us keep in mind that Jesus is the Son not in the sense of having been created, but because He partakes of the same divine nature as God the Father. Adventists embrace the belief that Jesus is the eternal Son of God, and is also fully God Himself and part of the Godhead. He was sent to earth to minister to us, live as our example, and ultimately bear the eternal punishment of our sins. He is now our advocate, our High Priest, the relatable link between us and God the Father.

 

[face2face]

You have maintained that position since the beginning of this discussion. You cited verses and interpreted them to say that Christ was subject to sin and corruption. While the truth is He never was, He was only subject to temptation and you made out like, being temptation means He was subject to commit the sin.

If I'm driving along and stop at a crossing and a woman crosses the road revealing a lot of flesh. Have I sinned because she crossed my path and my line of vision, according to your philosophy I have. But Jesus said, if I looked at her with lust then I have committed adultery in my heart.

If you don't have the honesty to retract the statement be honest in saying so Christian! By their fruits you shall know them...

 

[Christian Soldier]

Okay you started out with confidence, how many thousand verses again? You couldn't explain John 1:14 so try another?

I'll be here waiting

I explained John 1:4 perfectly but it flew over you head. The Word (God) became flesh. The flesh didn't become the Word God. I'll just grab the baby milk, you do know that the word "Word' means God right?????? you forgot that didn't you.

Did God cease being God when He became flesh, according to you yes according to God no. So it's a no brainer for me. I will always choose to believe in God over you.

 

[face2face]

I explained John 1:4 perfectly but it flew over you head. The Word (God) became flesh. The flesh didn't become the Word God. I'll just grab the baby milk, you do know that the word "Word' means God right?????? you forgot that didn't you.

Did God cease being God when He became flesh, according to you yes according to God no. So it's a no brainer for me. I will always choose to believe in God over you.

Third post and no retraction of your accusation?
Posting a verse without an explanation of your claim is not evidence.
Where does it say Jesus had two natures simultaneously?
You might need a glass of milk (fat free!)

 

[Wick Stick]

What an awful thread. If one wanted to know why people are leaving the church, all they would have to do is look at this.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Third post and no retraction of your accusation?
Posting a verse without an explanation of your claim is not evidence.
Where does it say Jesus had two natures simultaneously?
You might need a glass of milk (fat free!)

I gave you 100 verses proving that Jesus has two natures at all times. I can't help it if you choose to ignore what the scriptures say.

 

[Christian Soldier]

What an awful thread. If one wanted to know why people are leaving the church, all they would have to do is look at this.

There's no such thing as leaving the Church, if you're suggesting that Jesus amputates His limbs and members and cast them away. Then you have come under strong Demonic Delusion. Jesus is not into self mutilation

You obviously believe the Church is a brick building and anyone can come in and go out as they please. Well the truth is Church members are held captive to Christ, there's no way they could or would escape, so that really exposes you false view of the Church.

 

[face2face]

I gave you 100 verses proving that Jesus has two natures at all times. I can't help it if you choose to ignore what the scriptures say.

You gave John 1:14 which speaks to Logos becoming Flesh - that's it.
F2F

 

[face2face]

What an awful thread. If one wanted to know why people are leaving the church, all they would have to do is look at this.

if they are leaving "that" church that would not be a bad thing! Lets hope they pick up their Bibles are read for themselves the True Gospel according to the Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ

F2F

 

[face2face]

I wouldn't say it's a horrible thread...we have proven OSAS to be false doctrine and Christian and I have been speaking about Christ's true nature, one he is still grappling with.

Maybe you are late to the party

 

[Christian Soldier]

You gave John 1:14 which speaks to Logos becoming Flesh - that's it.
F2F

Well what does Logos mean to you, is it some kind of alien?????

 

[face2face]

Well what does Logos mean to you, is it some kind of alien?????

Logos in relation to God, is to mean His Word by which all things exist, both the Physical Creation as per Genesis 1-3 "God said" and the Spiritual Creation in the Lord Jesus Christ (John 1), Logos "became flesh". Both creations are given existence by His Logos.

 

[face2face]

Well what does Logos mean to you, is it some kind of alien?????

Here is what the New Spiritual Creation looks like: Feel free to check the verses for a True Gospel

 

[Wick Stick]

There's no such thing as leaving the Church, if you're suggesting that Jesus amputates His limbs and members and cast them away. Then you have come under strong Demonic Delusion. Jesus is not into self mutilation

You obviously believe the Church is a brick building and anyone can come in and go out as they please. Well the truth is Church members are held captive to Christ, there's no way they could or would escape, so that really exposes you false view of the Church.

Demonic delusion? Just going to skip straight to ridiculous accusations, then? Not even a snide comment, or back-handed compliment first?

Really just proves my original point... this thread is toxic.

 

[PS95]

That's a very good question, I have been discussing this very doctrine with a member who goes by the name @face2face He believes that Christ was a corrupt sinner. It would be interesting to know which denomination he belongs to, I know JW's and SDA's teach that heresy but I'm sure there are many more

Corrupt Sinner? No. JWs and SDA's dont teach that. I am neither of those religions, but let's not post wrong info.

 

[mailmandan]

You post scripture reference with no actual scripture.

Please copy and past the post where I stated a "salvation by works" statement.

Here is the truth -

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

I posted multiple scripture references with actual scripture in posts #297, #300 and #374 that were addressed to you.

Now you don't come straight out and specifically say we are "saved by works," but you imply it over and over again in your posts by saying that we remain in Christ, remain saved based on keeping His commandments/works - "type 2 works salvation." How do you interpret James 2:14-26?

I know that 1 John 3:24 is the truth. Keeping His commandments is the demonstrative evidence that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. Just like confessing that Jesus is the son of God is the demonstrative evidence that God abides in him, and he in God (1 John 4:15) along with abiding in love is the demonstrative evidence that we abide in God and God in us. (1 John 4:16)

 

[mailmandan]

You seem to be shifting the goal posts mailman. OSAS speaks of a gift at the front door!

I'm curious why your position has changed over the past two replies?

F2F

My position has not changed. It's impossible to reason with you.

 

[RedFan]

It's impossible to reason with you.

If you believe that, then why are you bothering to engage F2F on this?

 

[mailmandan]

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

Those "in Him" refer to born again Christians.

Those "in Him" who do not walk according to the flesh, are not under condemnation.

For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Romans 8:5-6

For if you live according to the flesh you will die; Romans 8:13 but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:13

Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:7-8

• he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption
• he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

The choice is yours.

JLB

Not walking according to the flesh but according to the Spirit is the demonstrative evidence that we are in Christ. (Romans 8:1) Type 2 works-salvationists try to create two camps of Christians. Those who walk according to the flesh and lose their salvation and those who walk according to the Spirit and maintain their salvation.

In regard to walking after the Spirit and not after the flesh in Romans 8, Paul sets up a CONTRAST between those who live according to the flesh (unbelievers/false brethren) and those who live according to the Spirit (believers). In verses 8-9, Paul clearly states - So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. See the contrast?

Walking according to the Spirit is descriptive of children of God. Those who are habitually dominated by the sinful nature (unbelievers) put their minds on the things of the sinful nature, but those who are habitually dominated by the Spirit (believers) put their minds on the things of the Spirit. If a person’s intent is to live according to the flesh, it’s an indication that he is not saved. Yet if a person, by the Spirit is putting to death the deeds of the body, it's an indication he is saved.

Romans 8:13 (AMP) - for if you are living according to the [impulses of the] flesh, you are going to die. But if [you are living] by the [power of the Holy] Spirit you are habitually putting to death the sinful deeds of the body, you will [really] live forever.

In regard to Galatians 6:7-8, the one who is continuously (Greek present tense) sowing to his own corrupt flesh, which is opposed to God and unrenewed by the Holy Spirit shall of the flesh reap corruption. Our life here is sowing of one kind or another. But he who sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap everlasting life. See the contrast?

 

[mailmandan]

If you believe that, then why are you bothering to engage F2F on this?

I just now came to that conclusion but that is a good question.