OSAS : Gnostic Heresy

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JLB

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That reiterates irrevocable eternal Salvation. Thanks.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

Those "in Him" refer to born again Christians.

Those "in Him" who do not walk according to the flesh, are not under condemnation.

For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Romans 8:5-6


For if you live according to the flesh you will die; Romans 8:13
but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:13


Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:7-8


  • he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption
  • he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.



The choice is yours.




JLB
 

JLB

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I posted scripture multiple times and not just my opinion, and I also told you multiple times that keeping His commandments is the evidence that we know Him. I agree with those verses that you continue to cite. I just don't agree with your eisegesis that culminates in salvation by works at the back door.


You post scripture reference with no actual scripture.

Please copy and past the post where I stated a "salvation by works" statement.


Here is the truth -

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24
 

BlessedPeace

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There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

Those "in Him" refer to born again Christians.

Those "in Him" who do not walk according to the flesh, are not under condemnation.

For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Romans 8:5-6


For if you live according to the flesh you will die; Romans 8:13
but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:13


Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:7-8


  • he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption
  • he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.



The choice is yours.




JLB
God said differently.
And you do not understand why.
 

BlessedPeace

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Yes, we agree on that doctrine so it's quite refreshing to see.

I can't go along with this idea that Christ was subject to any kind of corruption.

Can you please confirm that you believe that Jesus was fully God and fully Man at the same time during His earthy life. If you agree, then you will agree that He also had two natures at the same time. Namely His divine nature and his human nature, if you agree with that as well then you would know that all the work He did to purchase atonement for His people was done in His capacity as an ordinary man.

He suffered pain as a man, He cried as a man, He hungered as a man, He got tired as a man, He was tempted as a man, He wasn't omniscient as a man, (because He didn't know that Lazarus had died until He heard about it) etc.. etc...what I'm trying to say is that while Jesus created David and everyone else as the creator God. He still humbled Himself and didn't employ His divine power to make the work of atonement any easier.

It doesn't make sense to say "if you remove his nature", both of Christs natures were inseparable from each other. He is in heaven right now in the exact same body He left the earth in, He still has the wounds in His hands and feet. So He is still fully God and fully Man, just as He always was on earth. I don't believe that the body of Christ inherited corruption at birth as the rest of humanity did.

The body which Christ came into the world in, had no corruption in itself at all. The corruption and sin of His people was imputed to Him, just as if some took the death penalty for you. It doesn't make them corrupt but they are punished as if they are as corrupt as you.
I'll have to research this but till then, do you or anyone else here know what denomination teaches that Christ was a Sinner or corrupted by Sin?
 

BlessedPeace

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You post scripture reference with no actual scripture.

Please copy and past the post where I stated a "salvation by works" statement.


Here is the truth -

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24
Your works reprieve doctrine fails.

Those in Christ keep His commandments because we know them in our heart. Which is not something the natural man,mind, comprehends.
 

face2face

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Salvation present is justification and salvation future is glorification. Salvation is not merely a gift at the front door
You seem to be shifting the goal posts mailman. OSAS speaks of a gift at the front door!
and a reward at the back door that we keep by earning it. NOSAS typically culminates in salvation by works at the back door. In Revelation 22:12, we read - “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to everyone according to his work.

Compare with 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 - For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; (of reward) but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

So, in addition to receiving the gift of eternal life, which is by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) believers will also receive rewards and loss of rewards based on their works. It's critical that we understand the difference.
I'm curious why your position has changed over the past two replies?

F2F
 
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face2face

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You are dodging the issue (inseparability of divine and human natures). If the Son of God was always God, inseparably having both divine and human natures including during his 30-odd years walking the planet, then the Son of God (= God) was a servant to God and God was a servant to God -- which makes no sense.
You cannot prove Hypostatic union, you can try but forcing nature on the text is a waste of time seeing you full well know this has to do with the mind (mental disposition).

F2F
 
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Christian Soldier

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I'll let you work through that one for yourself.

Highly Messianic!

For you (God) will not abandon my soul (life) to Sheol (grave), or let your holy one see corruption Ps 16:10.

The promise is void if its not possible, right?

Job 21:13 is the way of all men and it was for the Lord Jesus Christ, with one exception! God would not allow him to corrupt in the grave

I'll assume for the moment you can't explain Ps 16:10 and Acts 13:35 confused

I'll continue to push your understanding and appreciation of Christ's humanity!


As you know I have provided you maybe 10-12 verses which show you Jesus was in all points tempted in a nature which is precisley the same as yours.

Can you provide me a single verse outlinning hypostatic union?



Soon all this will fall away...the original Gospel will provide a deeper more profound truth, one you are yet to realise!



The changing from mortal to immortal; from corruptible to incorruptible is spoken of as being clothed (something put on).

For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 1 Corith 15:53


When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

So the nature of Christ was changed from mortal to immortal; from perishable to imperishable - Christ is the first fruits of them the sleep!

But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 1 Cort 15:20

Death in the Bible for those in Christ is referred to as a sleep, as the next waking moment they will be with their Lord!

Can you see your issue?

If death wasn't swallowed up in victory in Christ, then you are still in your sins and the condemnation which you say was not in Christ has not been condemned, him being raised is of no benefit to you at all.

If you say Christ was not clothed with immortality, then he mustn’t have been mortal, and if he wasn’t mortal, then he wasn’t tempted in all points as we are yet without sin. This would mean Christ is disqualified from being a high priest as the High Priest must be taken from among men!

5 For every high priest chosen from among men is appointed to act on behalf of men in relation to God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins. 2 He can deal gently with the ignorant and wayward, since he himself is beset with weakness Heb 5.

No matter whether you work it forward, or backward, Christ was held under the dominion of death (Romans 6:9) and his nature was condemned to corrupt in the grave (Heb 2:17 Psa 16:10 Acts 13:35) unless he lived a sinless life, and the promise that his Father would redeem him from the grave, would be fulfilled.

he (Jesus) entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his OWN blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.

Just in case you didnt think Jesus didnt need redeeming (read Hebrews 5:7 again!) - he suffered on the cross, shed his blood and an offering to God! By his own blood the Lord "obtained" eternal redemption Hebrews 9:12

Again, remove his corrupt nature - remove redemption!

At some point you will fiund the truth hard to accept, shame we couldnt chat face to face coffee: truth is that truth is not always palatable - truth hurts! Knowing this will bring you even closer to Christ and his sufferings!


By now, you have read the above reply, and you are seriously thinking about the Lords nature. You are starting to realise you cannot provide a Scripture to show duality of nature and possibly you will start putting one and one together, and the true Gospel of God and its Power will shine!!

F2F
Wow, I'm astounded at how far you are from the truth of the matter. It shows me that you have been deeply indoctrinated with false theology.

The Word of God exposes your false doctrine 100 times over and you say I cannot provide a scripture to prove Christ's duality of nature.

There are too many to list so I'll just put the link here to blow false theology right out of the water once and for all. I know you will have to capitulate after you read the list. Please don't feel pressured to defend your position, I respect correction myself so you shouldn't be ashamed for getting this doctrine wrong.

What Does the Bible Say About Jesus Christ Fully Man Fully God?
 

Christian Soldier

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Phil 2:7 would disagree. Whatever He "emptied himself" of had to be within His divine nature. Ergo, they were at least partially separable while He walked the earth.
Trying to understand and explain how God can exist as being fully man and fully God at the same time is impossible for us mere mortals with a pea brain. Jesus is God and God is a mystery, nobody can wrap their minds around who He is and how He exists.

The Bible clearly tells us that God will remain a mystery forever, we will never know or understand everything about Him. He has actually hidden 99% of this about Himself. He has only revealed a tiny snippet about Himself. So attempting to describe Him is futile exercise, you will just keep going around in never ending circles of confusion.

You gave one verse, but i have a 100 to destroy your opinion.

What Does the Bible Say About Jesus Christ Fully Man Fully God?
 

face2face

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Wow, I'm astounded at how far you are from the truth of the matter. It shows me that you have been deeply indoctrinated with false theology.

The Word of God exposes your false doctrine 100 times over and you say I cannot provide a scripture to prove Christ's duality of nature.

There are too many to list so I'll just put the link here to blow false theology right out of the water once and for all. I know you will have to capitulate after you read the list. Please don't feel pressured to defend your position, I respect correction myself so you shouldn't be ashamed for getting this doctrine wrong.

What Does the Bible Say About Jesus Christ Fully Man Fully God?
You list one, just one! Let me hear you speak to it.
F2F
 

Christian Soldier

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I'll have to research this but till then, do you or anyone else here know what denomination teaches that Christ was a Sinner or corrupted by Sin?
That's a very good question, I have been discussing this very doctrine with a member who goes by the name @face2face He believes that Christ was a corrupt sinner. It would be interesting to know which denomination he belongs to, I know JW's and SDA's teach that heresy but I'm sure there are many more
 
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Christian Soldier

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You list one, just one! Let me hear you speak to it.
F2F
Sorry I shouldn't have buried you with a truckload of rebuttal, so I give you a sip of milk here sml

Just consider the first few words, they are enough to prove it.


John 1:14

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth
 

face2face

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Sorry I shouldn't have buried you with a truckload of rebuttal, so I give you a sip of milk here sml

Just consider the first few words, they are enough to prove it.


John 1:14

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth
So posting John 1:14 is your way of explaining the hypostatic union? Wow, if this forms part of your 1000 quotes we are in for a long one lol
 

face2face

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Sorry I shouldn't have buried you with a truckload of rebuttal, so I give you a sip of milk here sml

Just consider the first few words, they are enough to prove it.


John 1:14

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth
The PM I just sent you is a piece of tomahawk steak!
Let's see how you digest that :Agreed:
 

BlessedPeace

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That's a very good question, I have been discussing this very doctrine with a member who goes by the name @face2face He believes that Christ was a corrupt sinner. It would be interesting to know which denomination he belongs to, I know JW's and SDA's teach that heresy but I'm sure there are many more.
I thought of the JW's when I posted. I wasn't aware SDA taught that.
 
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face2face

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That's a very good question, I have been discussing this very doctrine with a member who goes by the name @face2face He believes that Christ was a corrupt sinner. It would be interesting to know which denomination he belongs to, I know JW's and SDA's teach that heresy but I'm sure there are many more
You need to provide post# where I said this, or with integrity retract the statement.
F2F
 

Christian Soldier

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So posting John 1:14 is your way of explaining the hypostatic union? Wow, if this forms part of your 1000 quotes we are in for a long one lol
So now your denying that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Almighty Jehovah God, the creator and sustainer of everything that exists.

Who do you say that He is then. The Bible clearly says that Jesus is the Word and the Word is God. If you deny this, then your not a believer. The Word became flesh, God became man but He didn't inherit the original sin from Adam as the rest of humanity did.


So there's your downfall, you don't accept what God clearly said.
 

face2face

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So now your denying that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Almighty Jehovah God, the creator and sustainer of everything that exists.

Who do you say that He is then. The Bible clearly says that Jesus is the Word and the Word is God. If you deny this, then your not a believer. The Word became flesh, God became man but He didn't inherit the original sin from Adam as the rest of humanity did.


So there's your downfall, you don't accept what God clearly said.
Okay you started out with confidence, how many thousand verses again? You couldn't explain John 1:14 so try another?

I'll be here waiting hmmx1:
 

Christian Soldier

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I thought of the JW's when I posted. I wasn't aware SDA taught that.
Yes I was attending a SDA Church for around 3 months, and their teaching is that Jesus came into existence when He was born. They say before that time, God never had a Son.

As soon as I found out that they were teaching heresy I left
 
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Christian Soldier

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You need to provide post# where I said this, or with integrity retract the statement.
F2F
You have maintained that position since the beginning of this discussion. You cited verses and interpreted them to say that Christ was subject to sin and corruption. While the truth is He never was, He was only subject to temptation and you made out like, being temptation means He was subject to commit the sin.

If I'm driving along and stop at a crossing and a woman crosses the road revealing a lot of flesh. Have I sinned because she crossed my path and my line of vision, according to your philosophy I have. But Jesus said, if I looked at her with lust then I have committed adultery in my heart.