OSAS : Gnostic Heresy

[face2face]

Got to love it when they preach doubt, then claim we doubt.

They do not understand their own argument

This response comes across as though you are hurting Eternally. Everyone has doubt! Not everyone understands the fight (or truth). The Apostle Paul did make it known at the end of his ministry as one who had fought the good fight. I've highly valued the interactions with Mailman of late. Their approach is well reasoned to a point, then the Word is pushed to one side as not being applicable to those who think themselves saved. Once you understand the mind of the Lord and his scrutiny over the elect you must needs leave OSAS behind and focus on the faithful endurance till the end, no matter the sufferings that befall you.

F2F

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

This response comes across as though you are hurting Eternally. Everyone has doubt! Not everyone understands the fight (or truth). The Apostle Paul did make it known at the end of his ministry as one who had fought the good fight. I've highly valued the interactions with Mailman of late. Their approach is well reasoned to a point, then the Word is pushed to one side as not being applicable to those who think themselves saved. Once you understand the mind of the Lord and his scrutiny over the elect you must needs leave OSAS behind and focus on the faithful endurance till the end, no matter the sufferings that befall you.

F2F

One version of the OSAS people are using such as a door mat.
Just a religious door mat ?

Real true OSAS all endure to the end because they are truly Saved in fact ! if one does not then they are not truly Saved in fact !

Once truly Saved you can not turn back to ones own vomit ? because what you once were was the Vomit ! for now you have been changed ! That does not mean that you will not experiance the waves that are to come ? you do that but it's a challange that you look forward to take on ! but before one would be in feer or dread or fall into line with what's been played to dupe you.

One has the strength and fortitude to deal with the Serpent, for it has not power over you ! but it's still at your door waiting to strike if you are not on guard, for the bastard will strike at you, if you give it a chance.

Some may think that they are Saved ? and have no regards because they claime to be Saved, so what ever they do it does not matter, for they claim to be going to Heaven ? Ok that may be so ! but one who has no virtue is not truly Saved in fact i believe, for they are a slob !
The Born again does not tolerate Slobs !

A mate who peddles a stupid OSAS line is a Slob for he is weak in the Holy Spirit but only very religious ? If he says a cuss word, then he looks up and says directly Sorry Lord. that is just religious stupid !
God is about your actions, as in what did you do is the real issue ? would Jesus do such ? if not then were did you or from who did you pick that up from ? was such in regards a temptation ? or was it a calling out in due to a pain ? being injured or taken for a ride, threatened, bashed, robbed, un just delt with ?
Now would you do such to another ? or would Jesus do what you do ? so who gives one your guidance ? would like such done to you ? so why would you do wrong by another, if you would not want such done to yourself.

Words are not the issue, it's the intent that is the issue. But oh not he said a bad word or he says bad words ? so he is condemed ? but i have met people who never use bad words and they are the most evil people i have ever come across !

Like the Devil himself did he use bad words ? No ! not at all ! but he did use words in regard tempting one.

 

[face2face]

One version of the OSAS people are using such as a door mat.
Just a religious door mat ?

Real true OSAS all endure to the end because they are truly Saved in fact ! if one does not then they are not truly Saved in fact !

Correct as Aunty Jane just wrote.

Once truly Saved you can not turn back to ones own vomit ? because what you once were was the Vomit ! for now you have been changed ! That does not mean that you will not experiance the waves that are to come ? you do that but it's a challange that you look forward to take on ! but before one would be in feer or dread or fall into line with what's been played to dupe you.

I think care is needed here...God will test us according to what we know and life has a way of throwing up certain challenges where struggles with temptation and sin might appear as one returning to their vomit but in fact they has a sin which so easily besets them. God and Christ are gentle and merciful with us beyond what we deserve. The "being saved" is a process that is for certain.

One has the strength and fortitude to deal with the Serpent, for it has not power over you ! but it's still at your door waiting to strike if you are not on guard, for the bastard will strike at you, if you give it a chance.

True

Some may think that they are Saved ? and have no regards because they claime to be Saved, so what ever they do it does not matter, for they claim to be going to Heaven ? Ok that may be so ! but one who has no virtue is not truly Saved in fact i believe, for they are a slob !
The Born again does not tolerate Slobs !

True, though we mustn’t judge them as slobs - God looks upon the heart and doesn’t see as we see. I not so concerned about them believing they are saved, what’s more of a concern is the "saved regardless of how I live" doctrine not revering Him or His Warnings.

A mate who peddles a stupid OSAS line is a Slob for he is weak in the Holy Spirit but only very religious ? If he says a cuss word, then he looks up and says directly Sorry Lord. that is just religious stupid !

God is about your actions, as in what did you do is the real issue ? would Jesus do such ? if not then were did you or from who did you pick that up from ? was such in regards a temptation ? or was it a calling out in due to a pain ? being injured or taken for a ride, threatened, bashed, robbed, un just delt with ?
Now would you do such to another ? or would Jesus do what you do ? so who gives one your guidance ? would like such done to you ? so why would you do wrong by another, if you would not want such done to yourself.

Words are not the issue, it's the intent that is the issue. But oh not he said a bad word or he says bad words ? so he is condemed ? but i have met people who never use bad words and they are the most evil people i have ever come across !

Like the Devil himself did he use bad words ? No ! not at all ! but he did use words in regard tempting one.

God is certainly about "works" you only need to look into a stary sky to see that! Or go camping near a flowing river. Jesus's whole ministry one work after work through faith. Faith confirming works is the calling and those who think they can sit in darkness (Gentiles) and be saved will be in for a shock.

F2F

 

[Taken]

Got to love it when they preach doubt, then claim we doubt.

They do not understand their own argument

It is a TATIC…
(widely implemented in Religious and Political confrontations between Good and Evil)

Politically…
Caucus meet, roundtable decide smear.
Report to press (ie. LEAK)
Press reports to Public.
Politicians reverberated Press Report as Fact.

(Missing factors…Publics Itching ears…Rather than the Public knowledgable of Constitutional LIMITS)

Religiously…
Positioned church leaders, roundtable meet.
Decide pro / con.
Report to offspring denominations.
Offspring leaders, report to congregates.
Congregates yay / nay with other denominations.

(Missing factors…Individuals itchy ears….rather than consideration of a Personal Relationship WITH or WITHOUT the Lord God).


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[face2face]

@Taken

I'll give you an example, one I hope you will be able to see as a comparison.

Do you believe Saul of Tarsus was convinced of his beliefs as a Pharisee?

Could you, or I convince him of his error?

What did it take to convince him?

Answer: A Blinding Light and symbolic death for 3 days.

Do you believe there will be a Christian equivalent to Saul in the World today who has this OSAS belief but are wrong in their understanding of the true Christ?

At the very least you would honestly say its possible!

No matter what is said, that person will never change, or accept the possibility of being wrong.

Now, that could be, both you or I - however, your position in more tenuous because you have made "your" mind up and nothing will move you.

If you can't learn and your mind is closed to learning you have sealed whatever fate is left to you.

Almighty God knows...I trust He will guide all who are His into His coming Kingdom.

All I can do is show you a harmonous Scripture and live by it.

F2F

 

[Taken]

One version of the OSAS people are using such as a door mat.
Just a religious door mat ?

Real true OSAS all endure to the end because they are truly Saved in fact ! if one does not then they are not truly Saved in fact !

Once truly Saved you can not turn back to ones own vomit ? because what you once were was the Vomit ! for now you have been changed ! That does not mean that you will not experiance the waves that are to come ? you do that but it's a challange that you look forward to take on ! but before one would be in feer or dread or fall into line with what's been played to dupe you.

One has the strength and fortitude to deal with the Serpent, for it has not power over you ! but it's still at your door waiting to strike if you are not on guard, for the bastard will strike at you, if you give it a chance.

Some may think that they are Saved ? and have no regards because they claime to be Saved, so what ever they do it does not matter, for they claim to be going to Heaven ? Ok that may be so ! but one who has no virtue is not truly Saved in fact i believe, for they are a slob !
The Born again does not tolerate Slobs !

A mate who peddles a stupid OSAS line is a Slob for he is weak in the Holy Spirit but only very religious ? If he says a cuss word, then he looks up and says directly Sorry Lord. that is just religious stupid !
God is about your actions, as in what did you do is the real issue ? would Jesus do such ? if not then were did you or from who did you pick that up from ? was such in regards a temptation ? or was it a calling out in due to a pain ? being injured or taken for a ride, threatened, bashed, robbed, un just delt with ?
Now would you do such to another ? or would Jesus do what you do ? so who gives one your guidance ? would like such done to you ? so why would you do wrong by another, if you would not want such done to yourself.

Words are not the issue, it's the intent that is the issue. But oh not he said a bad word or he says bad words ? so he is condemed ? but i have met people who never use bad words and they are the most evil people i have ever come across !

Like the Devil himself did he use bad words ? No ! not at all ! but he did use words in regard tempting one.

There is Always a period of TIME…of discovery, learning about, weighing this and that knowledge…BEFORE the individual MAKES a commitment to ANYTHING.

Men Routinely MAKE “Commitments”….
Give their word, Give their signature, in an Agreement to abide by the “Commitment”…
* Loans…
* Marriages…
* Purchases…

AND? Men routinely BREAK their word, their AGREEMENT, their PROMISE…
(With a pocket full of Reasons, and hope to be EXCUSED for their Breaking their own word).

It has BECOME “common place” for men in positions of Preaching, Teaching Religious practices…TO Preach and Teach…
A man can give his Word, his Promise to God…RECEIVE Gods Gift of SALVATION…and THEN SHAME God…
BY Throwing Gods GIFT AWAY…

No Where does the Lord God Preach, Teach, God can Be fooled, tricked into Giving His Gift of Salvation to any man, WHO after Receiving Gods Gift, can put, throw that Gift asunder.

A mans teaching, preaching …
The pretense, God is ignorant, unknowing, fooled, a liar… IS ludicrous.

ONCE the Lord God Almighty HAS Sanctified a man…it IS for ever.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

@Taken

I'll give you an example, one I hope you will be able to see as a comparison.

Do you believe Saul of Tarsus was convinced of his beliefs as a Pharisee?

Could you, or I convince him of his error?

What did it take to convince him?

One man…
Saul…(Jewish heritage, via mother)
Paul…(Greek/Gentile heritage, via father)

Purpose OF any LAW…for the Lawless!
Lawless…(Religiously or Politically) are expressly those without a natural moral compass to EXIST FREELY, taking care of their own…WITHOUT destroying an others Liberty…(to accomplish taking care of their own)

Saul (Pharisee, denoting a high position)…was Expertly trained IN Hebraic LAW.
His personal mission, expanded FROM teaching Jews Gods way…TO pursuing, TO seeking out others, NOT following Jewish Laws…TO round them up.

Jesus…Called out to Saul…but WAS Also acknowledging Paul.

Paul (Greek/Gentile heritage)… revealed; Acts 13:9

I believe as Scripture teaches…
Saul was a Pharisee.
Saul was a persecutor of others.
Saul was CALLED by Jesus.
Saul Acknowledged Jesus IS Lord.
Saul Agreed to Serve Jesus.
Saul Received the Binding of the Holy Spirit.
Saul/Pauls Service mission unto the Lord was …to Teach, Preach the Gospel of Jesus
…Christ TO…Jews, Gentiles, Kings.
Saul Accomplished his Service to the Lord.

Answer: A Blinding Light and symbolic death for 3 days.

Saul’s blindness was not the highlight, you should have understood from Acts 9.

Do you believe there will be a Christian equivalent to Saul in the World today who has this OSAS belief but are wrong in their understanding of the true Christ?

I believe God Himself SENT out A CALLING TO ALL earthly men…That of ANY such men WHO answer that CALLING, by returning (same as Saul did), acknowledgment it is the Lord calling, and an individual mans FREEWILL option to Respond to the Lord and pledge by his own word to be a Servant of the Lord, according to His Word….that the Lord Himself PREPARES that man for such Service…WITH Gods Baptism of His Holy Spirit…ALONG with Gods assuredness (by Gods Power) to KEEP THAT FAITHFUL SERVANT UNTO Himself (God) For Ever!

You are seemingly amiss….All men that which Agree and Take Gods Offering…BECOME Gods Inheritance! And most assuredly God (by, through, of His own Power) KEEPS His own Inheritance FROM “ANY” other, (celestial or terrestrial) having the ability, means, ways to lay claim to Gods Inheritance.

At the very least you would honestly say its possible!

Honestly IN spiritual matters, I fully Trust the Lord God Almighty.

No matter what is said, that person will never change, or accept the possibility of being wrong.

There is always a possibility for an individual to be wrong regarding Carnal minded matters.

I Trust there is NEVER a possibility for an individual to be wrong by being in Agreement with Gods Spiritual Truth.

Now, that could be, both you or I - however, your position in more tenuous because you have made "your" mind up and nothing will move you.

And THAT IS YOUR FAILURE…NEVER have I implied or claimed…MY TRUST IN God and His Word IS BASED on my MINDS THOUGHTS!!!

And additionally WHY, it is SO easy to quickly dismiss your views regarding a Spiritual Gift, that YOU fail to understand, yet argue against…BASED ON YOUR Carnal Minded Understanding..

If you can't learn and your mind is closed to learning you have sealed whatever fate is left to you.

Almighty God knows...I trust He will guide all who are His into His coming Kingdom.

All I can do is show you a harmonous Scripture and live by it.

Your preaching Carnal mindedness and Carnal understanding…is irrelevant to me…


Rom 8:
[7] Because carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

This response comes across as though you are hurting Eternally. Everyone has doubt! Not everyone understands the fight (or truth). The Apostle Paul did make it known at the end of his ministry as one who had fought the good fight. I've highly valued the interactions with Mailman of late. Their approach is well reasoned to a point, then the Word is pushed to one side as not being applicable to those who think themselves saved. Once you understand the mind of the Lord and his scrutiny over the elect …

you must needs leave OSAS behind and focus on the faithful endurance till the end, no matter the sufferings that befall you.

F2F

The Lord God IS NOT A LIAR…

1) Some ARE sanctified.
2) Some SHALL BE sanctified.
3) Some SHALL NEVER BE sanctified.

For those who ARE sanctified…Never, Never does Gods Word TEACH…
The NEW Creature…by, through, of ANY means AGAIN can BECOME the OLD Creature!

Which is precisely WHY, your teaching is corrupt.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[face2face]

The Lord God IS NOT A LIAR…

1) Some ARE sanctified.
2) Some SHALL BE sanctified.
3) Some SHALL NEVER BE sanctified.

For those who ARE sanctified…Never, Never does Gods Word TEACH…
The NEW Creature…by, through, of ANY means AGAIN can BECOME the OLD Creature!

Which is precisely WHY, your teaching is corrupt.

Glory to God,
Taken

Which is why OSAS fails and falls over on points 1-3
F2F

 

[JunChosen]

Question, to @face2face and to all who does not believe in OSAS doctrine....."How many of your sins did Jesus redeem when He went to the cross....one, past sins only, future sins only, or ALL?"

To God Be The Glory

 

[face2face]

Question, to @face2face and to all who does not believe in OSAS doctrine....."How many of your sins did Jesus redeem when He went to the cross....one, past sins only, future sins only, or ALL?"

To God Be The Glory

OSAS believers keep inferring there is a problem with the Lord.
Look in the mirror!
Find him while he still can be found.
And if you find him don't let go till the end.
F2F

 

[Taken]

Which is why OSAS fails and falls over on points 1-3
F2F

What is your standing…?

1) Are saved?
2) Hoping to be saved?
3) Likely will never be saved?

 

[face2face]

What is your standing…?

1) Are saved?
2) Hoping to be saved?
3) Likely will never be saved?

I've always liked the thought of 1 Corithians 1:18 - no doubt you will see why and the context is so relevant.

For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.1 Co 1:18.

The idea here is while those of the world are slowly decaying though alive, there are those who are in the process of being saved. This is what makes living so painful at times. You talk to people who reject the Gospel so they can enjoy sin for a season onlyto enter the grave never to come out confused

I think your number 2 is closer to "being saved", hoping can be an inactive thing, while the work of God in you is a joint effort so to speak. "For we are God’s fellow workers (labourers). You are God’s field, God’s building.' 1 Corith 3:9

It's not unlike 2 Corithians 5:19 but of course the work God is going in His Children is to reconcile and redeem them back to Himself, a work He did in His Son.

Hope that helps

F2F

Ha - I must like Pauls letters to the Corithians as I quoted them 3 times!

 

[Taken]

I've always liked the thought of 1 Corithians 1:18 - no doubt you will see why and the context is so relevant.

For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.1 Co 1:18.

The idea here is while those of the world are slowly decaying though alive, there are those who are in the process of being saved. This is what makes living so painful at times. You talk to people who reject the Gospel so they can enjoy sin for a season onlyto enter the grave never to come out confused

I think your number 2 is closer to "being saved", hoping can be an inactive thing, while the work of God in you is a joint effort so to speak. "For we are God’s fellow workers (labourers). You are God’s field, God’s building.' 1 Corith 3:9

It's not unlike 2 Corithians 5:19 but of course the work God is going in His Children is to reconcile and redeem them back to Himself, a work He did in His Son.

Hope that helps


F2F

Ha - I must like Pauls letters to the Corithians as I quoted them 3 times!

Ya okay, so you share a commentary…
Could you now answer the question?

What is your standing…?

1) Are saved?
2) Hoping to be saved?
3) Likely will never be saved?

 

[face2face]

Ya okay, so you share a commentary…
Could you now answer the question?

What is your standing…?

1) Are saved?
2) Hoping to be saved?
3) Likely will never be saved?

Being saved

 

[Taken]

Being saved

So, none of the following is accurate regarding YOUR Standing?

1) Are saved?
2) Hoping to be saved?
3) Likely will never be saved?

What IS accurate IS you are in the “process” of Being…Becoming Saved?

Is that accurate, regarding YOUR Standing?

 

[Johann]

So, none of the following is accurate regarding YOUR Standing?

1) Are saved?
2) Hoping to be saved?
3) Likely will never be saved?

What IS accurate IS you are in the “process” of Being…Becoming Saved?

Is that accurate, regarding YOUR Standing?

Rom_5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Rom_5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[Taken]

Rom_5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Rom_5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Some….Already ARE saved.
Some….Shall be saved.
Some….Shall not be saved.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Johann]

Some….Already ARE saved.
Some….Shall be saved.
Some….Shall not be saved.

Glory to God,
Taken

Salvation is not a product, but a daily relationship with God in Christ. It is not finished when one trusts Christ; it has only begun (a gate and then a road, cf. Matt. 7:13-14)! It is not a fire insurance policy, nor a ticket to heaven, but a life of growing Christlikeness (cf. Rom. 8:28-29; 2 Cor. 3:18; 7:1; Gal. 4:19; Eph. 1:4; 4:13; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:3,7; 5:23; 1 Pet. 1:15). We have a proverbial saying in America that says the longer a couple lives together, the more they begin to look alike. This is the goal of salvation!

SALVATION AS A COMPLETED ACTION (aorist)

• Acts 15:11

• Romans 8:24

• 2 Timothy 1:9

• Titus 3:5

• Romans 13:11 (combines the aorist with a future orientation)

SALVATION AS A STATE OF BEING (perfect)

• Ephesians 2:5,8

SALVATION AS A CONTINUING PROCESS (present)

• 1 Corinthians 1:18; 15:2

• 2 Corinthians 2:15

• 1 Peter 3:21

SALVATION AS A FUTURE CONSUMMATION (future in verb tense or context)

• Romans 5:9,10; 10:9,13

• 1 Corinthians 3:15; 5:5

• Philippians 1:28

• 1 Thessalonians 5:8-9

• Hebrews 1:14; 9:28

• 1 Peter 1:5

Therefore, salvation begins with an initial faith decision (cf. John 1:12; 3:16; Rom. 10:9-13), but this must issue in lifestyle faith (cf. Rom. 8:29; Gal. 2:19-20; Eph. 1:4; 2:10), which will one day be consummated in sight (cf. 1 John 3:2). This final state is called glorification (cf. Rom. 8:28-30). This can be illustrated as

1. initial salvation – justification (saved from the penalty of sin)

2. progressive salvation – sanctification (saved from the power of sin)

3. final salvation – glorification (saved from the presence of sin)
Utley.

 

[Taken]

Salvation is not a product, but a daily relationship with God in Christ. It is not finished when one trusts Christ; it has only begun (a gate and then a road, cf. Matt. 7:13-14)! It is not a fire insurance policy, nor a ticket to heaven, but a life of growing Christlikeness (cf. Rom. 8:28-29; 2 Cor. 3:18; 7:1; Gal. 4:19; Eph. 1:4; 4:13; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:3,7; 5:23; 1 Pet. 1:15). We have a proverbial saying in America that says the longer a couple lives together, the more they begin to look alike. This is the goal of salvation!

SALVATION AS A COMPLETED ACTION (aorist)

• Acts 15:11

• Romans 8:24

• 2 Timothy 1:9

• Titus 3:5

• Romans 13:11 (combines the aorist with a future orientation)

SALVATION AS A STATE OF BEING (perfect)

• Ephesians 2:5,8

SALVATION AS A CONTINUING PROCESS (present)

• 1 Corinthians 1:18; 15:2

• 2 Corinthians 2:15

• 1 Peter 3:21

SALVATION AS A FUTURE CONSUMMATION (future in verb tense or context)

• Romans 5:9,10; 10:9,13

• 1 Corinthians 3:15; 5:5

• Philippians 1:28

• 1 Thessalonians 5:8-9

• Hebrews 1:14; 9:28

• 1 Peter 1:5

Therefore, salvation begins with an initial faith decision (cf. John 1:12; 3:16; Rom. 10:9-13), but this must issue in lifestyle faith (cf. Rom. 8:29; Gal. 2:19-20; Eph. 1:4; 2:10), which will one day be consummated in sight (cf. 1 John 3:2). This final state is called glorification (cf. Rom. 8:28-30). This can be illustrated as

1. initial salvation – justification (saved from the penalty of sin)

2. progressive salvation – sanctification (saved from the power of sin)

3. final salvation – glorification (saved from the presence of sin)
Utley.

Learning is a process.

Gifts are bought paid for BY ONE and Offered to others, if they so desire to TAKE the Gift offering, (so bought and paid for FOR THEM.)

Salvation IS a bought and paid for Gift, that belongs to God, IS Offered by God for the entire human race, to TAKE, if they so choose.

It is not a GIFT GIVEN by Force, against a mans will.

It is WHOLLY given or WHOLLY with-held.

Once GIVEN it is KEPT forever unto the man; by the Power of God.


Glory to God,
Taken