OSAS : Gnostic Heresy

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Eternally Grateful

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Holy Spirit must enter in before this happens.
I rest my case.
The things of God are foolishness to everyone. Unless or until the Holy Spirit enters in and leads them to understand the things of God.
This is not just foolish, this Makes God Look bad. And his justice means nothing.. He raises people from the dead while still in sin
Holy Spirit lends that ability to trust. We in and of ourselves do not choose to trust.
Of course. But he does not have to come in to do this. Jesus helped people. He did not have to come in them. I am amazed at to how powerless people think God is he can;t influence them without going into them.. Is God that weak?
True. We cannot return to God his free irrevocable Salvation gift
yes
They are always part of this type conversation.
Not this one. I am talking about those who are saying stuff about me which is not true
Really? Please post the scripture where Jesus, Yeshua, said our will is a catalyst in our Salvation.
John 3 would be a great place to start. Our new birth is not given UNTIL we trust God..

But it’s not the only one.


In truth most here who posit as enemies of Calvinism don't know what they're talking about.
I think it goes both ways
Supposed proponents of Armenians are like unto those anti-Calvinist bunch.
It gets old because it's the same ones who stoke Animus. And they're obviously Trolling because after months,even years, of that nonsense they prove they don't care to learn anything.
They just regurgitate the same ridiculous vitriol against what is their true target that they cloak in the accusation of "Calvinism". And that is the Gospel itself.
Same can be said of the calvinist. Which is my point.. Repeat your whole paragraph and insert calvin where the word arminian is,, And it is just as true
Their point is to disrespect Jesus,Yeshua and The Gospel.
So do calvinists.
The lie they use to cloak that is in claiming to object to Calvinist Tenets.
Because if cowardly Trolls dared say outright, the gospel is buxxxxxx! They'd be banned immediately.

Instead they insist The actual Gospel as taught by many here is Calvinism. And they,as we read repeatedly, insist we "Calvinists" are blind to the falsehood we defend.
I would agree with them But only in this area. Again, thats why I hate the debate. A calvinist must defend calvinism at all costs. As an arminian does.. So neither one can hear a word someone says when it goes against them, They read from their calvinist or arminian view.
It keeps them aboard because that's their sneaky way of saying The actual Gospel is false.
Its not about them, Its about you..
 

Eternally Grateful

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I really appreciate the way you responded to the mockers with the truth of the gospel. You didn't resort to slander and you didn't express any private views or opinions.

The truth doesn't need to be forced on anybody, if one loves the truth he will embrace it, if he hates it he will reject it and mock it.
But it must be truth

This statment itself is proud. You state your truth is the truth, while mocking them, then appearing to be above reproach while in essence slandering them (their truth is a lie)

thats why this is so funny, and I always get my popcorn out..
 

mailmandan

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From what I understand many experienced becoming Born Again very differently.

Yet, there is only one way to become Born Again and that is by divine revelation?

We can all post reams and reams of scripture, but, that doesn’t mean our spirit has been Born Again does it?

Everyone of us are coming from a different understanding of what it means to be Born Again do you think?
1 Peter 1:23 - having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever.
 
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mailmandan

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@mailmandan out of interest, would you have a section of Scripture which concerns you regarding OSAS. I noticed you stayed away from the seven churches? I think I understand your position well enough to know that within a community of believers not all will be saved, as indicated by the Lord in Revelation 2-3. There’s enough warning passages there to show all that the grace given is precious and not to be treated lightly. I've seen you explain away "warning passages" (all of them) only to pick the bits you want - does it help you to ignore those passages and focus in on the positive messages only?

Revelation 2-3 has the same language as 1 Corinthians 10 - 10:5 But God was not pleased with most of them, for they were cut down in the wilderness. 1 Co 10:5.

I'm more interested in how you percieve the dangers of your Doctrine given the reality that many will fail their faith, be deceived etc.

View attachment 48447

I guess the approach you usually take is more difficult here as these are all active chuches with members participating in them.

F2F
There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers mixed together within these various churches.
 
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Ritajanice

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1 Peter 1:23 - having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever.
Exactly, it’s all very well quoting that scripture....which many do...so where are we Born Again Of incorruptible seed?

We also need backing up to understand that penned word that you have just quoted from scripture...who backs that truth up and where in us is that truth backed up?

In other words how do we know we have been Born Again of incorruptible seed?

It’s all very well quoting scripture, we need to understand that scripture..are you with me?

You are right in what you post, but, we must have the backing of who?..... to truly believe that scripture?

How do we even know that scripture is Gods truth?

Just by reading it I’m afraid won’t cut it, we need much more than reading the word?
 

mailmandan

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@mailmandan

I'm also interested in how a modern-day Sardis would teach OSAS?

Christ said "I know your works" to appear alive, but dead — You have the name of being alive, but you are dead!

There is something outwardly concerning about this church. They had a high reputation among people, but not in the sight of God. It is significant that in this message the Lord does not specify any prevailing form of error or false doctrine, and it is probable that the chruch was too apathetic to care. The church seemed large and lively to others, yet that was but a facade that hid a corpse. It was dead spiritually.

Do you think the teaching of OSAS would be helpful for this church? If you don't, do you think the warnings given carried weight?

I think you would agree the encouragement and warnings which followed are not in keeping with your OSAS teaching. I find it difficult for you to not see these insights by the Lord as anything but probationary.

F2F
Jesus points out the lifeless state of the church in Sardis - "..you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead." (Revelation 3:1) This church may have had a name of being alive, but they were spiritually lifeless. In other words, the church was filled with unsaved people going through the motions of religion who needed to wake up and repent in CONTRAST with a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments; and they will walk with Jesus in white.

*White garments are mentioned elsewhere in Revelation. The church at Laodicea mentions white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed. (Revelation 3:18). The 24 elders wear white garments (Revelation 4:4). The martyrs waiting for God’s judgment are given white robes to wear (Revelation 6:11). The armies appearing with the Messiah also wear white and clean linen (Revelation 19:14). The great multitude of the saved in Revelation 7:14 wear robes made white in the red blood of the Lamb. The color paradox makes the point and implies that the color white stands for God’s people made spiritually pure and justified by Jesus’ blood. That means the few in Sardis who were given white robes had been made right and just before God.
 

Ritajanice

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There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers mixed together within these various churches.
Only God knows who are his, we don’t..although in honesty at one time I thought I did.....NO I don’t....everyone is on their own journey with God...and everyone on this forum is searching for Gods truth to be delivered to their heart/ spirit..imo.

We all have Jesus in common with each other...and Love Jesus.
 
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mailmandan

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Exactly, it’s all very well quoting that scripture....which many do...so where are we Born Again Of incorruptible seed?

We also need backing up to understand that penned word that you have just quoted from scripture...who backs that truth up and where in us is that truth backed up?

In other words how do we know we have been Born Again of incorruptible seed?

It’s all very well quoting scripture, we need to understand that scripture..are you with me?

You are right in what you post, but, we must have the backing of who?..... to truly believe that scripture?

How do we even know that scripture is Gods truth?

Just by reading it I’m afraid won’t cut it, we need much more than reading the word?
To be born again is to be "born from above" which is a spiritual transformation that could only come from above. Romans 8:16 - The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God. In John 17:17, Jesus said, “Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.” So, Jesus clearly states, God’s word is truth and it’s by that truth that God sanctifies us or sets us apart for holy service to Himself.
 
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Ritajanice

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To be born again is to be "born from above" which is a spiritual transformation that could only come from above. Romans 8:16 - The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God. In John 17:17, Jesus said, “Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.” So, Jesus clearly states, God’s word is truth and it’s by that truth that God sanctifies us or sets us apart for holy service to Himself.
We must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God.

Spiritual transformation?

I would say as Gods word says..Spirit gives birth to spirit..

I don’t see God saying we are Born Again by a spiritual transformation.?

What does that mean even?

How do you know that the Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are Gods children?

Where does that truth come from?

Again scripture needs to be backed up by whom ?

Your posting scripture but you aren’t explaining to me what it means..how would you know that scripture is true?..that’s all I asked?..x2

We can all post scripture..it needs to be backed up by whom?

Otherwise how do we know it’s true?
 
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mailmandan

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We must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God.

Spiritual transformation?

I would say as Gods word says..Spirit gives birth to spirit..

I don’t see God saying we are Born Again by a spiritual transformation.?

What does that mean even?

How do you know that the Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are Gods children?

Where does that truth come from?

Again scripture needs to be backed up by whom ?

Your posting scripture but you aren’t explaining to me what it means..how would you know that scripture is true?..that’s all I asked?..x2

We can all post scripture..it needs to be backed up by whom?

Otherwise how do we know it’s true?
Based on your endless questions, it sounds to me like you are over thinking this and making all of this out to be much more complicated than it really is.
 
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Ritajanice

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Based on your endless questions,
I asked you x2 how do you know that the Bible is Gods truth..by what means would we know that his penned word was His truth..to which you never answered..you just keep posting scripture and explaining little on what it’s saying.
it sounds to me like you are over thinking this and making all of this out to be much more complicated than it really is.
If you post like me, then expect to be asked questions..all part and parcel of the discussion.

This is a two way discussion , not a one way discussion ,I’m also not over thinking anything..that’s just your opinion...



I will leave it there..for the moment and I will ask you questions if I’m not understanding..I haven’t broken any forum rules..
 
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Ritajanice

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To be born again is to be "born from above" which is a spiritual transformation that could only come from above.
To be Born Again comes from divine revelation...The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children...spiritual transformation makes no sense and it’s not biblical..regarding how we are Born Again..

We are not Born Again by a spiritual transformation.

Once we are Born Again then we will start our journey on being made into Jesus image./ transformed.

2 Corinthians 3:18New American Standard Bible - NASB 1995 (NASB1995) But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.
 
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mailmandan

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I asked you x2 how do you know that the Bible is Gods truth..by what means would we know that his penned word was His truth..to which you never answered..you just keep posting scripture and explaining little on what it’s saying.

If you post like me, then expect to be asked questions..all part and parcel of the discussion.

This is a two way discussion , not a one way discussion ,I’m also not over thinking anything..that’s just your opinion...

I will leave it there..for the moment and I will ask you questions if I’m not understanding..I haven’t broken any forum rules..
 

Ritajanice

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The truth doesn’t come from the Bible...the truth about the Bible comes by divine revelation.

Who happens to be God’s Living Witness His Living Holy Spirit.

He is the Spirit ( Living Spirit) that testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children/ Born Again...that is a Living Spirit birth....” mind Blowing “ well it was for me!

The Bible is Gods word, but one needs to be Born Again in their spirit to understand that truth...we understand that truth in our spirit, as that is what is Born Again.

The Spirit of God is Alive and Active ,he’s Alive and Active in our spirit.
 
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mailmandan

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To be Born Again comes from divine revelation...The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children...spiritual transformation makes no sense and it’s not biblical..regarding how we are Born Again..

We are not Born Again by a spiritual transformation.

Once we are Born Again then we will start our journey on being made into Jesus image./ transformed.

2 Corinthians 3:18New American Standard Bible - NASB 1995 (NASB1995) But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.
A person who has been born again by the Spirit of God has been born again by incorruptible seed (1 Peter 1:23) and is a new creation in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17) and has become partakers of the divine nature. (2 Peter 1:4) How is that not a spiritual transformation?
 

Ritajanice

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A person who has been born again by the Spirit of God has been born again by incorruptible seed (1 Peter 1:23) and is a new creation in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17) and has become partakers of the divine nature. (2 Peter 1:4) How is that not a spiritual transformation?
We are spiritually transformed once we become Born Again...you understand it as spiritual transformation no problem.

I understand it as per Gods word, you must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God...because we have been Born Of God’s seed.

As a Born Again do you still sin?
 
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Ritajanice

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has been born again by incorruptible seed
Is it by incorruptible seed or is it we have been Born Again of incorruptible seed?

I know I misquote scripture at times..we all do it..

1 Peter 1:23​

King James Version​

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.




That incorruptible seed that we have been Born Again of ,is by Gods Living Witness His Living Holy Spirit

We’re obviously on similar wavelength...this is what I mean when everyone understands scripture so differently....we’re all at different stages with the Lord imo....
 
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Eternally Grateful

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A person who has been born again by the Spirit of God has been born again by incorruptible seed (1 Peter 1:23) and is a new creation in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17) and has become partakers of the divine nature. (2 Peter 1:4) How is that not a spiritual transformation?
When someone states the truth does not come from the Bible you know there is some major issue and must consider the question if you should just walk away or not.. How can we trust they have any truth, when they claim the Bible is not the word of truth as given by God himself.
 
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Dan Clarkston

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A person who has been born again by the Spirit of God has been born again by incorruptible seed

Which... Jesus said can be choked out of someone and cause them to not bare fruit.

Mark 4:13-20
And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
The sower soweth the word. And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.

Here we see Jesus telling us the 5 things the devil uses to choke the Word and cause it to be unfruitful... IF these things are allowed to ENTER IN which we have the responsibility to not allow... see John 14:23 where Jesus says "If a man love me, he will keep my words" as in NOT allow it to be choked out of us.

The 5 things are... affliction, persecution, cares of this world, deceitfulness of riches, and lusts of other things


And then, to your chagrin, Jesus said this....

John 15:2
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Matthew 7:16-21
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.


The OSAS peoples ignore the Lord's teachings which is how we know they are being led by the devil.
 

Ritajanice

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1 Peter 1​

King James Version​

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you