Once Saved, Always Saved?

[Ferris Bueller]

You are not telling the entire story....people “ ARE” free to live lives of exceeding sinfulness....the question is, can they do this and “ get away” with it. Children need to be told the entire Truth....Salvation * IS*obtained by putting your entire Faith and Trust in Nothing But The Blood—— it’s by putting your Faith in “ HIS” Performance —— NOT yours!

You're the one not telling the entire story. Freely living in "exceeding sinfulness" is not indicative of one who has "faith and trust in nothing but the blood". That's the part you are leaving out, though the Bible is very clear about this truth.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

wanna go out and take advantage Of a Free Gift that cost God His Son and cost His Son His life ? Go ahead! Have at it! See what happens, Fool......If you simply Believe the Good News Of The Gospel , you’ll make it to Heaven alright...

But going out and 'taking advantage of the free gift that cost God his Son and cost his Son his life' is not 'simply believing the good news of the gospel'. That's the part you're leaving out, though it is very clearly taught in the Bible.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

This will instantly be understood as you claiming that works earn salvation. So you'll have to explain how it does not mean that.

You guys are Much too clever to say that out-right .....you know it won’t fly......that’s why you try to “ back- load” your works .....” Works don’t Save but if you don’t have them you are not Saved...” .....subtle......like Satan in the Garden....

 

[Taken]

At the very least he was backslidden; interesting to remember also that the event was before Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came to indwell His people permanently; so Peter at the time did not fully have the same resource as the believers did after Pentecost.

OT, 4,000 years, men were OFFERED, and some men GIVEN...
ONE THING.
“God would be WITH men, IF men would be WITH God.”

4,000 years of History, reveals, the results...
Men WITH God...God WITH men
Men WITHOUT God...God WITHOUT men.
Over and Over and Over and Over.

4,000 years, + the last 2,000 years = 6,000 years of ...
THIS HAS NOT CHANGED ——->
Men WITH God...God WITH men
Men WITHOUT God...God WITHOUT men

Peter was WITH God...God was WITH Peter.
Peter went into a crowd of People OF the World WITHOUT God.
The people in the crowd called out PETER as being WITH God.
Peter became AFRAID for his bodily life, and DENIED God.
The moment Peter DENIED God, Peter became:
WITHOUT God and God became WITHOUT Peter.
Following the Scriptural narrative, we discover,
Peter returned to God, was WITH God, and God was WITH Peter.
AND...that which Peter was FORETOLD, would Occur, DID come to pass.

The lesson is:
Nothing has changed. Nothing new under the sun. What was will be.
* Men with God. God will be with men.
* Men without God. God will be without men.
* WARNING -Men OF the world WITHOUT God, will cause men to FEAR MEN, Fear that men OF the world, will KILL the mans body WHO is WITH God.

So...the World continues, men are born, men are choosing to be WITH God, choosing to be WITHOUT God, and men OF the world choosing to be WITHOUT God, WILL continue to threaten and persecute men choosing to be WITH God.

And....
*Some men WILL be AFRAID of men OF the World, deny God, to keep their bodily life.
*Some men WILL NOT be AFRAID of men OF the World, remain WITH God, despite of what men OF the world may do to their bodily life.

And...
* That which was foretold BY Jesus, to ALL of His Chosen Apostles...
WAS...A NEW BETTER TESTAMENT...for them, AND for them to Teach the World.
* A WAY;
*For a man to freely, By the mans OWN declaration, hearfully CHOOSE to be WITH God FOREVER,
*Thus God would ASSUREDLY BE WITH that man FOREVER.

And...
* Scripturally, we find, Every Apostle Jesus appointed, freely, heartfully, Chose, Jesus’ NEW WAY TESTAMENT OFFERING, BECAME assuredly WITH God FOREVER and God BECAME assuredly WITH them FOREVER.
And...
* Men OF the World, “without God”, threatened the Apostles, brutally beat their body’s, imprisoned their body’s, killed their body’s.

SO WHAT exactly IS this “NEW BETTER TESTAMENT WAY”:
Jesus Taught...
Jesus Offered...
The Apostles Accepted...
The Apostles Taught...
And all other subsequent Teachers were Taught TO TEACH?

Inanutshell...
Christ Jesus’ WISDOM....
OUTSMART men “OF” the world, who want to TAKE your LIFE...

“BY your OWN WORD, declare your own heartful declaration OF BELIEF IN the Lord God Almighty and your own choice of GIVING YOUR bodily LIFE DEAD, TO and FOR Gods Sake....”

* God REQUIRES....all men’s BODY’S, MUST and SHALL DIE ONCE.
* All men have freewill Choices...
* Wait and wonder on what day God will kill their body.
* Wait and wonder on what day a Man will kill their body.
* CHOOSE for themselves on what day THEY will GIVE God their OWN SIN offering, of THEIR OWN DEAD BODY.

THAT simple.
AND ONCE, a man HAS Declared his choice TO the Lord God
AND Given his body Dead TO the Lord God...
That man IS called Converted “IN” Christ.
Gods Spirit IS “IN” that man.
Gods Spirit IS “FOREVER” “WITH” that man.
“FOREVER” that man IS “WITH” God.
....NO ONE can undo, or reverse that mans DECLARATION and DEAD Body GIVEN to God.

THAT ^ IS inanutshell the meaning of OSAS.

Men who neither understand, and preach against OSAS, are in effect, Preaching AGAINST what Jesus Taught, and by the Power of God, what God Promised TO DO.

Jesus foretold to His Apostles, A WAY to FOREVER BE WITH God.
Scripture confirms WHAT the Apostles were FORETOLD, was Received unto ALL of them.

 

[mailmandan]

Wrong, I have no gospel other than Jesus' gospel. Mark 16:15-16.

Wrong. Jesus' gospel is not "baptized or condemned." (Mark 16:16(b)

Now, Danthemailman's version of the gospel,
-Mark 16:15-16,
- he who believes and is not baptized will be saved;
But he who does not believe will be condemned.

If he who believes will be saved (John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) then he who believes and is baptized will be saved as well (Mark 16:16) yet Jesus clarifies the first clause with ..but he who does not believe will be condemned. (Mark 16:16(b). Jesus did not say whoever is not baptized will be condemned. You teach a "different" gospel of "water baptized or condemned." Your gospel is the gospel according to Campbellism and not Jesus.

That is your gospel.
You will answer for your lack of faith.

My gospel is Jesus' gospel. You have been baptized, but don't truly believe, so it's you who will answer for your lack of faith in Jesus. Your faith is in baptism + other works and is not in Christ alone. Your gospel renders Christ an IN-sufficient Savior. My gospel renders Christ an ALL-sufficient Savior.

The latter verse says,
-he who does not believe will be condemned.

Yes, he who does not believe will be condemned and not whoever is not baptized will be condemned. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. *Hermeneutics.

It does not say,
-he who does not believe and is not baptized will be condemned,
Because that is a redundancy.

He who does not believe will be condemned (John 3:18) regardless of whether or not you have been baptized.

No amount of water is going to be of any benefit if one does not believe.

Sadly, there are many people in various false religions and cults who have been water baptized, but don't truly believe.

Faith must be the motivating factor that causes you to obey the commandment to be water immersed.

Faith in Christ, not faith in baptism. It logically follows that believers get water baptized after they believe and are saved, but if someone is on their death bed and cannot get baptized before death, they are still saved because they believed (John 3:18; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16 etc.. ) which is in harmony with Mark 16:16(b)..but he who does not believe will be condemned. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "water baptized or condemned."

I see you and Eternally Grateful do not agree on the baptism in Mark 16:16.
You believe it is water.
Eternally Grateful believes it is Holy Spirit.
You are correct! Baptizo= water immersion

So now you are trying to divide Eternally Grateful and I?

Why do you not correct your friend Eternally Grateful?
Why do you give him likes when he teaches error?
Seems to me you only care about one issue.
If I believe in faith onlyism, you will ignore error.

Eternally Grateful still believes in/has faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and you don't. It's your fatal error that I'm worried about.

That is your gospel.
Everything else Jesus taught is of no consequence to you regarding ones salvation.

My "believe or condemned" gospel is in line with Jesus' gospel. (Mark 16:16(b); John 3:18) Your "baptized or condemned" gospel is in line with Campbellism. In 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, the apostle Paul clearly states the gospel, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures and in Romans 1:16, Paul clearly states that the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) Believes plus what? Believes plus nothing. *What happened to baptism?

 

[Taken]

You guys are Much too clever to say that out-right .....you know it won’t fly......that’s why you try to “ back- load” your works .....” Works don’t Save but if you don’t have them you are not Saved...” .....subtle......like Satan in the Garden....

Correct.....WORKS do not SAVE a man.
Jesus came as a SERVANT.

Jesus DID WORKS...restored eye-sight, raised the dead, turned water into wine.

Jesus SERVED...Speaking Gods Truths.
Jesus SERVED...Believing Gods Truths.
Jesus SERVED...Gave His body living body unto Death to and for the sake of God.

What more Does God ASK of any earthly man?
Speak Gods Truth.....it Glories God.
Believe Gods Truth....it Exalts God.
Give God your own Body unto DEATH to and for Gods sake.

What IS Gods “sake”?
SAKE...(not the Japanese beverage!)
SAKE...ie THE BENEFIT.

What IS Gods “BENEFIT” of a man declaring his belief and allegiance to God.....and a man giving his own body alive unto death, sin offering unto God?

Gods SAKE/ BENEFIT?
THAT man.......BECOMES.........Gods INHERITANCE.

No man can work his way into being Gods inheritance.
Sure men will TRY...we even have an example IN Scripture of men TRYING and FAILING.

Matt 7
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Using the Lords NAME to do works, IS NOT how a man becomes Gods Inheritance. How a man BECOMES Gods Inheritance IS doing the will of God, which IS a SERVICE...not WORKS.

Scripture itself...calls the SERVICE...a reasonable SERVICE.
* Reasonable...simply means, moderate, the extent of appropriate, fair, practicable.

Romans 12:
[1] I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Michiah-Imla]

1981

Peter temporarily lost his salvation by denying Jesus, but he was able to restore it through confessing these sins

Peter had not believed in the resurrection yet (Christ wasn’t even executed yet) so salvation wasn’t even in play yet.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

1990

As YOU “skate around” John 5:24—- the Nuclear Bomb That NONE of you Blind Guides will ever address...

[oh brother!]

Do I have to address John 5:24 for a THIRD time?!

“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.” (John 5:24)

See?

There are 2 conditions in play; “hear” and “believe”!

Apparently Once Saved Always Saved prevents you from hearing these words:

“See, you are well! Sin no more, that nothing worse may happen to you.”” (John 5:14)

“But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.” (Matthew 24:13)

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Works don’t Save but if you don’t have them you are not Saved...” .....subtle......like Satan in the Garden.

Yes, how clever of John, that evil little worker of satan!

"10 Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child" 1 John 3:10​

 

[Michiah-Imla]

1993

wanna go out and take advantage Of a Free Gift that cost God His Son and cost His Son His life ? Go ahead! Have at it! See what happens, Fool......

What happened in Job’s case then?

This is a complete vain speech by Charles Stanley! for Christians can expect hardships even in holy living!!

“Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.” (1 Peter 4:12-13)

More baloney from Once Saved Always Saved teachers who give incorrect advice on why not to sin!

The pure biblical reason to stop sinning is so that YOU DO NOT GET THROWN ONTO THE LAKE OF FIRE!!!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

you remember how God said that wherever Sin abounded, Grace abounded that much MORE?

As abounding as that grace is, that grace ends at the place where you turn you back on God and you willingly go back to your sins in unbelief.

"If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God." Hebrews 10:26-27
​

Whether the person who does this ever really believed or not is irrelevant. The outcome is the same either way. They are in unbelief. Unbelievers will not be saved from the wrath of God when Jesus returns.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Now if a person just tells a child that they are saved by believing in the finished work of the cross or in the blood of Jesus to be saved alone and it is nothing that they do and you never see them again, they could potentially grow up to think they can live an excessively sinful lifestyle while under God's grace by this kind of message.



Poor, poor unknowing God .....I guess He got caught “off - guard” in the possibility that somebody might actually take His Amazing Grace and use it as a “ License to Sin”....

I’m sure God is in favor of “ lying” to our Children ....I’m sure He desires our Children to see Him as that “ mean old man in the sky” who longs to send us to Hell every time we “ stumble” .....after all, Jesus came to “ condemn the World” and NOT save it, right? Baloney.


You are not telling the entire story....people “ ARE” free to live lives of exceeding sinfulness....the question is, can they do this and “ get away” with it. Children need to be told the entire Truth....Salvation * IS*obtained by putting your entire Faith and Trust in Nothing But The Blood—— it’s by putting your Faith in “ HIS” Performance —— NOT yours!

I’m squarely with Charles Stanley on this matter....wanna go out and take advantage Of a Free Gift that cost God His Son and cost His Son His life ? Go ahead! Have at it! See what happens, Fool......If you simply Believe the Good News Of The Gospel , you’ll make it to Heaven alright.....But your life will be cursed, full of God’s Chastisement without any blessings and come Judgement Day you are going to be scared to death, “ shrinking back” , ashamed of yourself and if you look at your rear -end you will be seeing whip- marks galore.... if that is what you want, give it a whirl .....see what happens if you think you can Mock God and His Grace.....

Only a Fool would not fear God , and children need to be taught that God Willful punish their sins.... but Love is what God is looking for.....as I keep saying , Love for God is the Engine that drives Obedience ....that us why the #1 Commandment is to Love God with all of your heart, mind and soul....anything that “ counts” in this life that please God must stem from our Love for Bim

In His Earthly appearance, there were times that the disciples simply could NOT keep the children from crawling all over Jesus...... and Jesus loved it and heartily approved of it, saying that such was the Kingdom Of Heaven.....Do you think these kids couldn’t resist Jesus because he was always scolding them and wagging his finger at them? Or maybe they could not resist the Love That they saw in Jesus and wanted to be near it....I go with the latter....maybe Love begets Love....understanding THAT is what we must know....it's what our Children need to know....what kind of world are you talking about that is based on a lie? Never be afraid of the Truth—- especially GOD’S TRUTH —- He knows What He is Doing...He knew the risks of Grace when he invented it....it turns out to be the thing that saved Anybody that ever got saved—- don’t try to hide it...

Charles Stanley is one of the worst Hyper Grace teachers out there.

Charles Stanley said:

“"And so, sometimes out of ignorance or whatever it might be, they attempt to gratify and meet those needs the same way they did before they were saved, and therefore, you can't tell a carnal believer from a lost man. That is, you can't tell the cold from the carnal because the truth is, they're both acting the same way. Now, one of them is in Christ and one of them isn't. One of them is lost and the other one is in Christ. One of them knows about God and knows him in the experience of salvation; the other doesn't know him at all."​

Charles Stanley also said:

"... a Christian who at no point in his entire life bore any eternal fruit. And yet his salvation is never jeopardized."

"... there are Christians who show no evidence of their Christianity as well."

"Consequently, God does not require a constant attitude of faith in order to be saved -- only an act of faith."

"It [saving faith] is a singular moment in time wherein we take what God has offered."​

This shows a complete lack of understanding the Holy Bible, and morality. Basically Stanley is promoting a Sociopathic religion (Which is what Hyper Grace OSAS basically is).

According to a Google search on sociopaths:

“Sociopaths seem to suffer from a "lack of moral sense", a phenomenon that is often described as being amoral, in contrast to immoral, because sociopaths seem to be incapable of understanding and therefore acting upon moral demands.”​

This seems to be the recurring theme when I try to discuss the moral problem behind OSAS with those who have been hardened by this false doctrine. They appear to suffer a lack of moral sense or understanding on why it is wrong to think that they can sin and still be saved on some level. Some OSASers believe you can sin as much as you like and be saved (like Charles Stanley and company), and other OSASers believe you will not practice sin (whatever that means), and you must sin again the rest of your life this side of Heaven as a part of their false interpretation on 1 John 1:8 when Galatians 5:24 says that they that are Christ’s have crucified the affections and lusts.

 

[PinSeeker]

Those who don't believe salvation through faith is a God-given and and eternal-life-guaranteeing thing have faith not in a person ~ namely Jesus ~ but rather faith in their own faith, which is terribly misguided.

Biblical faith, as defined in Hebrews 11:1, is "(t)he assurance" ~ which is given by God and worked in the person in the life-giving work of the Holy Spirit whereas the person is born again ~ "of things hoped for, the conviction" ~ also worked in the person by the Holy Spirit, Who convicts ~ "of things not seen."

As Paul says in Ephesians 2:8-10, it is "by (God's) grace (we) have been saved" ~ past tense; we will not be somehow (any how) 'unsaved' ~ "through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."

And continuing in Hebrews 11:3, "By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible." So our understanding correctly initially is the result of the working of faith in us by the Holy Spirit, as is the maintaining of this understanding in us by the same Holy Spirit, Who, as Jesus promised in John 14:15-26, is in each of us and with us forever, teaching us all things and bringing to our remembrance all that Jesus said to us.

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You guys are Much too clever to say that out-right .....you know it won’t fly......that’s why you try to “ back- load” your works .....” Works don’t Save but if you don’t have them you are not Saved...” .....subtle......like Satan in the Garden....

No offense, but it does not sound like you even know what happened in the Garden of Eden according to the Bible. Eve was deceived by Satan into thinking she and Adam could break God’s command (Which is a sin), and yet they would not die as God said. This is what OSAS falsely teaches. It teaches the same lie from the serpent in the Garden of Eden in Genesis chapter 3. Read it. Don’t insert your OSAS mumbo jumbo nonsense into the text. Just read it, and believe it. That’s why these kinds of discussions seem to go nowhere. Many OSASers simply won’t just accept all parts of the Bible as they are plainly written. They must either ignore or distort tons of verses in the Bible in order to make OSAS work (Which is a sin and still be saved false doctrine).

 

[PinSeeker]

No offense, but it does not sound like you even know what happened in the Garden of Eden according to the Bible. Eve was deceived by Satan into thinking she and Adam could break God’s command (Which is a sin), and yet they would not die as God said. This is what OSAS falsely teaches. It teaches the same lie from the serpent in the Garden of Eden in Genesis chapter 3.

Not at all. The sin was really Adam's, as he was the one who disobeyed. He could have corrected Eve in her having been deceived, but did not. And yes, they surely did die, just as God told them they would in Genesis 2:17. So no, "OSASers" do not teach what you say they do.

And that's why these discussions ~ to folks of your persuasion ~ seem to go nowhere, because they think... erroneously? obstinately? purposefully? ignorantly?... "OSASers" think and teach something quite different than what folks of your persuasion think "OSASers" really think and teach.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Those who don't believe salvation through faith is a God-given and and eternal-life-guaranteeing thing have faith not in a person ~ namely Jesus ~ but rather faith in their own faith, which is terribly misguided.

I believe the opposite is true because the moment a person says they are Once Saved Always Saved, then no sin technically can keep them from God, and therefore they will turn God’s grace into a license for immorality (Which the Bible warns against - Jude 1:4).

Biblical faith, as defined in Hebrews 11:1, is "(t)he assurance" ~ which is given by God and worked in the person in the life-giving work of the Holy Spirit whereas the person is born again ~ "of things hoped for, the conviction" ~ also worked in the person by the Holy Spirit, Who convicts ~ "of things not seen."

And continuing in Hebrews 11:3, "By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible." So our understanding correctly initially is the result of the working of faith in us by the Holy Spirit, as is the maintaining of this understanding in us by the same Holy Spirit, Who, as Jesus promised in John 14:15-26, is in each of us and with us forever, teaching us all things and bringing to our remembrance all that Jesus said to us.

While faith starts off as a belief alone in Jesus as one’s Savior, and a belief in the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, and in throwing oneself down upon the mercy of the Lord Jesus Christ (in seeking forgiveness of their past life of sin with Him), faith does not remain as a belief alone.

In Hebrews 11: While faith can be a belief alone like believing how the worlds were framed by the Word of God, Hebrews 11 also gives us an account of what faith does. “By faith Noah, ... prepared an ark to the saving of his house;...” (Hebrews 11:7). “By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac:” (Hebrews 11:17). “By faith Moses, ... refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;” (Hebrews 11:24-25). So by faith, the great men of God obeyed God and or put forth holy actions (or the “work of faith” - 1 Thessalonians 1:3, 2 Thessalonians 1:11). So in Hebrews 11, the word “faith” is also used to represent something a believer does. This faith also rejects sin in one's life, for Moses suffered with the affliction of God's people rather than enjoying the pleasures of sin for a season (Hebrews 11:25).

As Paul says in Ephesians 2:8-10, it is "by (God's) grace (we) have been saved" ~ past tense; we will not be somehow (any how) 'unsaved' ~ "through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."

Grace and peace to all.

Yes, Ephesians 2:8-9 is dealing with Initial Salvation. We are first saved by God’s grace and not works, but that does not mean Paul does not teach that we must live holy afterwards as a part of the Sanctification of the Spirit as a part of God's plan of salvation. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says that God has chosen you to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit, and a belief of the truth.

The works in Ephesians 2:9 is Works ALONE Salvationism (Without God’s grace). Paul was fighting against the same heresy of Circumcision Salvationism at the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15 (See Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24, Galatians 2:3, Galatians 5:2, Romans 3:1, Romans 4:9-12). Basically the heresy of Circumcision Salvationism is saying that you have to first be circumcised in order to be initially saved. But Paul is saying, you are first saved by God’s grace without works instead.

So the works in Ephesians 2:9 would be works of the Law of Moses and in trying to be justified by the Old Law (or Law ALONE) without God’s grace.

So in Ephesians 2:10, when Paul says “…we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them” he is referring to a different kind of work than the one mentioned in Ephesians 2:9. In verse 10: Paul is referring to the kind of works we are created unto Christ Jesus to do in this life after we have been saved by God’s grace without works. You did not do any works when you were first saved by God’s grace. But Paul says in verse 10 that you are created unto good works and that you should walk in them (not maybe walk in them). These works come later after you are first saved by grace without works.

Ephesians 2:9 is talking about Man Directed Works Alone Salvationism without God’s grace. Ephesians 2:8-9 is dealing with Initial Salvation.

Ephesians 2:10 is alluding to the secondary aspect of salvation we see in many verses in the Bible (i.e. the Sanctification of the Holy Spirit for a believer to live a holy life over the course of their life until the end). However, Paul does not want to confuse the issue and so his focus is on being saved initially by God’s grace.

 

[farouk]

1993


What happened in Job’s case then?

This is a complete vain speech by Charles Stanley! for Christians can expect hardships even in holy living!!

“Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.” (1 Peter 4:12-13)

More baloney from Once Saved Always Saved teachers who give incorrect advice on why not to sin!

The pure biblical reason to stop sinning is so that YOU DO NOT GET THROWN ONTO THE LAKE OF FIRE!!!

@Michiah-Imla This is a great verse there; I do think Romans 8.38-39 is clear about the true believer's eternal security.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Not at all. The sin was really Adam's, as he was the one who disobeyed. He could have corrected Eve in her having been deceived, but did not. And yes, they surely did die, just as God told them they would in Genesis 2:17. So no, "OSASers" do not teach what you say they do.

And that's why these discussions ~ to folks of your persuasion ~ seem to go nowhere, because they think... erroneously? obstinately? purposefully? ignorantly?... "OSASers" think and teach something quite different than what folks of your persuasion think "OSASers" really think and teach.

Grace and peace to you.

Either you are not reading Genesis 3 or you have distorted it beyond recognition to defend your sin and still be saved belief in OSAS.

The sin of the fall of mankind did not go into effect until Adam disobeyed. But that does not mean Eve did not sin and did not later die spiritually. It was by Eve being deceived that led her to convince her husband to also be deceived. It does not undo the lie by the serpent that he was trying to push upon both Adam and Eve. Lets read it to see how dumb the OSAS belief is.

Genesis 3:2-4
“And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:”

So here we see the woman (Eve) tell the serpent (the devil) that God said that they shall not eat of the tree otherwise ye (you-two) die.
Yet, the serpent lied to Eve and said: “Ye (you-two) shall not surely die.”

In other words, the devil wanted Adam and Eve to break God’s command (Which is sin) and think they would not die by doing so. Adam and Eve did not drop dead physically in that moment, and yet God said in the day Adam would eat of that wrong tree, he would die.

Genesis 2:17
“But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”

Seeing Adam lived on afterwards to be chased out of the garden and bear children, we can assume that Adam died spirituallly the day he disobeyed God’s command (Which is sin).

1 John 3:4 says, “sin is the transgression of the law.”

So the devil is teaching in the Garden from the beginning that you can sin and still be saved, and you have bought into that lie, hook line, and sinker (Because that is what OSAS teaches).

 

[Michiah-Imla]

@Michiah-Imla This is a great verse there; I do think Romans 8.38-39 is clear about the true believer's eternal security.

@farouk you come off to me as a nice person. I have no problem with you in this matter. Although I believe the doctrine you believe is an error, the fruits in you tell me that the doctrine in this situation played no role in your agreeable conduct.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@Michiah-Imla This is a great verse there; I do think Romans 8.38-39 is clear about the true believer's eternal security.

Romans 8:38-39 is in context to those who love God (Romans 8:28). Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). Jesus says if you keep His commandments you will abide in His love (John 15:10). In addition, Romans 8:38-39 does not mention “you” or “your sin” in this passage, either. So you can choose to remove yourself from the love of God or your sin can do so. Romans 8:38-39 is describing external things that cannot separate you from God. So this is not a good argument for the false doctrine of OSAS.