Once Saved, Always Saved?

[marks]

There is some truth that just doesn't matter.

The Faithfulness of God?

That seems to me to be at the heart.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

What, that Hagar was the one born according to the flesh, that is, this was the man's plan, not God's?

No, that her son Ishmael was born according to the flesh. Hagar represents the old covenant. It births natural children, not spiritual children. Natural, un-spiritual children that don't inherit the kingdom of God (Galatians 4:30).

Plain words?

You claimed, "Born? No".
I showed you the plain words do say 'born':

"...born according to the flesh..." Galatians 4:23

"...the son born by the flesh..." Galatians 4:29​

This to you means that "born of water" refers to John's baptism?

We see here that 'born of water' means 'flesh born of flesh':

"5 “...no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit." John 3:5-6​

And Paul says 'born by the flesh' means the birth of a natural, un-spiritual man via the old covenant, so 'born of water' means 'born by way of the old covenant'. And at this time that Jesus and Nicodemus are conversing, people were repenting and returning to God in their old covenant by being water baptized by John and his disciples. Jesus is saying this is just flesh birthing flesh (see above), and that you must also be born again, by the Spirit to enter into the kingdom of God. Paul explains this spiritual birth is the child born of the promise via the New Covenant, the child who inherits the kingdom of God.

 

[marks]

No, that her son Ishmael was born according to the flesh. Hagar represents the old covenant. It births natural children, not spiritual children. Natural, un-spiritual children that don't inherit the kingdom of God (Galatians 4:30).

Ishmael, right, of course, Thank you!

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Hagar was cast out, therefore the one baptised to repentance must be cast out .

Correct:

“Expel the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.” Galatians 4:30​

Repentance toward God, alone, no matter how sincere, isn't enough to see and enter into the kingdom of God. You must also be born again via the New Covenant. John's baptism only paved the way for salvation through faith in Christ. It was not salvation as a Jew would 'naturally' expect.

 

[marks]

just flesh birthing flesh

John's baptism is not "flesh birthing flesh". Was John's baptism from flesh? Or from heaven? But there is no "birth" in John's baptism.

Flesh gives birth to flesh. So all of Adam's children are as he, flesh. You must be born again.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Correct:

No, it's not correct! Its how your answer doesn't work.

You are stretching this like taffy! This isn't good.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Repentance toward God, alone, no matter how sincere, isn't enough to see and enter into the kingdom of God. You must also be born again

Perhaps you're asking yourself, "how is repentance toward God the first birth, if it's correct that it is, such that there is a need to born again?" Paul explains this. He says the old covenant is the first, natural birth. The New Covenant is where the second birth, the birth of the spiritual man who inherits the kingdom, occurs.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

John's baptism is not "flesh birthing flesh".

No, the REPENTANCE it represents is 'flesh birthing flesh'. The fleshly effort of repentance toward God according to the old covenant births natural, fleshly men; men who do not see and enter into the kingdom.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Was John's baptism from flesh?

Yes, in that it was the fleshly effort of men in a repenting of wicked deeds toward the righteous deeds of God. That's what repentance is. A change of mind about wickedness and disobedience towards righteous obedience. As good as that is it, that is just flesh giving birth to flesh.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

But there is no "birth" in John's baptism.

Yes, there is. Paul explains this. You repented back to the obedience of the old covenant by getting water baptized. Paul says the old covenant births a natural, un-spiritual man. I showed you this in Paul's words.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Flesh gives birth to flesh. So all of Adam's children are as he, flesh. You must be born again.

Paul explains it is HAGAR'S children that are flesh. You must be born again.
The old covenant births natural, fleshly children, in bondage to sin...children who won't see or enter into or inherit the kingdom. You must be born again. Natural first, spiritual second. This is a theme from beginning to end in the scriptures. Law first, then grace second.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

No, it's not correct! Its how your answer doesn't work.

I quoted the exact scripture that says what you said. How is that not correct?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The Faithfulness of God?

That seems to me to be at the heart.

Much love!

The important thing is that you believe and continue to believe in order to be saved now and when Jesus comes back. You can be correct all day long in your thinking about how faithful God is, and he is most certainly that, but if you don't believe and keep believing what importance does your acknowledgement of God's faithfulness have? None, of course. It only means something if you are a believer, and a believer all the way to the end. That is what matters.

 

[kcnalp]

“Taken”
You imply Believing Without Making a sure Heartful Election is a man receiving Conversion... error! Words matter. Man must freely heartfully confess Belief!



So ... what IS “your” Truth?
Clear up the matter!

Belief means IS saved?
Believers CAN fall away?

Converted means IS Saved?
Converted CAN fall away?

I quote many Scriptures and you call it "your" Truth? If you are right I can NEVER be unsaved. That's fine with me!

 

[kcnalp]

“Taken”
You have never claimed to have become Saved...sounds more like you believe and Hope you can endure believing to your physical death.



I don’t read ALL of your Posts...
“Your” profile statement of Faith,
So prove I lied.

Here IS “Your profile statement of Faith”;


Clear up the matter;

IDENTIFY the Thread, Page, Post #, Your Quote, claiming Yourself to have become Converted.

“Belief in the eternal Hell is not required for residency therein.” is indeed FACT!

 

[kcnalp]

Incomplete. Vague.



Christianity is a Term used to describe SOME believers IN Jesus.

Men decide WHAT they shall BE Called!
* Islam, (religion) the Quran, describes Jesus, and men who practice Practice Islam, Believe in Jesus, as he is presented in their Quran, A Prophet, A human man.
Call themselves Islamists.

* Jewish, (religion) Divided, OT, foretells Of a Jewish Messiah. Some Jews, Are Still Waiting
for their Jewish Messiah. They Remain UNDER OT Law. They may or may Not Believe Jesus was a Prophet, a human man.
They continue to repeatedly ask God for Forgiveness for law violations.
Call themselves Jews.

* Jewish, (religion) Divided, OT And NT, Regard And adhere to OT Traditions (feasts, sabbaths, etc.) IN the OT Law. Also Belief in Jesus IS the foretold, Christ Messiah, was Sent to Earth, and returned to Heaven. They continue to repeatedly Ask God for Forgiveness for Forgiveness for Law violations.
They call themselves Messianic Jews.

* Christian, (A) (religion) Divided, Under OT Law and Covenant, Only Under NT covenant, Believe Jesus IS a prophet, Belief Jesus was Sent by God, Belief Jesus IS Both A human man AND A Spirit!
They call themselves Christians.
* They Wait “TO Receive Salvation at the Time Of their physical Death....”IF” they have endured to continue Believing IN Jesus.
* They “Believe” they are Subject to the possibility of Losing their Salvation...
(Which IS TRUE, Because they are NOT Converted).
(Primarily Catholic’s And Some Protestants)

* Christian, (B)(religion) Divided, Only Under the New Covenant, Believe God Sent Jesus from Heaven, IN THE LIKENESS AS A Human man, Believe Jesus IS The Christ Messiah Spirit Of God, Have Heartfully Confessed Their Belief.
After Heartfelt Confession;
* Trust they HAVE RECEIVED, Gods Forgiveness; once and Forever.
* Trust Gods Spirit Has ENTER-ED IN them.
* Trust God IS Faithful and SAV-ED their soul; once and forever.
* Trust God IS Faithful and QUICKENED their spirit; once and forever.
* Trust God IS Faithful and Gods Spirit, (Gods Power) IN Them HAS Sav-ED them, Gods Spirit Will KEEP them Sav-ED and WITH God FOR EVER!
* Trust to Heartfully Believe:
Greater is He that is IN you than he that is IN the World.
* Trust to Heartfully Believe No one can Pluck THAT man out of the Hand Of God, Of Christ.



You appear to be “mentioned type”. (A) Christian. Believing in Jesus is the Christ...
But NOT converted with The Lord Gods Power IN you, Keeping you Forever, BY His Power.
You have Expressed, YOU have to Do The KEEPING, ie. ENDURING, by your OWN power.
Such IS a man WHO continues TO Sin, Repeatedly continues to ASK for Forgiveness Of His Sins Against God.
Type A Christian does Not Apply to me.

You believe you Can lose your Salvation.
I agree YOU could.
I believe I am Saved, and can never lose my Salvation!

Romans 10:10 (NKJV)
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

May not be OSAS but it's Bible!

 

[kcnalp]

Believers CAN and WiLL depart from the faith! Not a newsflesh.
ONCE SAV-ED, they ARE Sanctified, ie SET APART unto the Lord God “ONLY”.
Nothing can “UNDO” or “make a man “UN-SANCTIFIED”!

You present NOTHING Scripturally whatsoever that teaches A SAV-ED, Sanctified man, SET APART, KEPT BY GODS POWER, can AGAIN BECOME ...
Un-saved, Un-Sanctified, WITHOUT the Lord God.

ONCE a man IS SAVED, is not a doctrine of DEMONS!
That is YOUR ludicrous claim....NOT Scriptural!

Scriptural Doctrine;
Heb 10:
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
THAT IS...OSAS!

John 10:
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
THAT IS...OSAS!

THAT IS SCRIPTURAL TEACHING!!

YOUR TEACHING; a man CAN BECOME SAVED and then BECOME UNSAVED is FALSE!

I truly appreciate you saying I can NEVER be unsaved!

 

[kcnalp]

Paul does that, KC, because he is saved, and because of God's work in him. This is exactly what we were talking about in this thread. He is making his calling and election sure ~ making it evident both to himself and others ~ not in his own power but in God's, just as he implores the Philippians (and all Christians) to do:

"...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure." (Philippians 2:12-13)​

And this is just after he had said the following:

"...He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ." (Philippians 1:6)​

God's grace comes to us free; it is His gracious gift. But then it does demand (among other things) personal responsibility, including obedience, on our part.

You (and you are certainly not alone, as there are a number of other posters here who do the same thing) inadvertently make obedience to be a work that somehow earns us our salvation. That's not true at all. When we are saved, KC, God changes our hearts, which changes the way we see things, think about things, and ultimately do things. Because of our changed hearts, we are no longer in rebellion against God, but want to do things for Him ~ serve Him, obey Him, glorify Him... for His sake ~ because of having been reborn of the Spirit.

Open your eyes to His amazing grace, my friend. Grace and peace to you.

OSAS is Satanic! Christianity is a "works" religion!
Revelation 20:13 (NKJV)
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

 

[kcnalp]

You are not considering the times.

Paul lived and served on the cusp of the changes brought about by Christ, of Israel on the way out and the gentiles on the way in--those two folds that Christ must bring. He literally addressed both the dead and the living. Was he a Christian? He followed Christ, so yes. But he made it clear that he struggled on the edge, and even was purposefully all things to all men, that he might save some. In which case, using the many things he said without considering every context, the things that only God might sort out--you assume too much. Nonetheless, none of that takes away the fact that "today is the day of salvation" for those who turn completely to God and die to self, and being dead receive new life in Christ and are a new creation born anew of the spirit of God who has no end, except Christ who's end was in the flesh only.

So, no, Once Saved Always Saved is not "bogus", but is the power of God by His own eternal spirit--which you now campaign against, as does Satan. To your own shame, those who are His, born of His spirit, should be advocating for that newness of life which is everlasting--unshakable, just as promised. Do you not realize that you campaign against the Holy Spirit, which without repentance, is unforgivable?

No Scripture? Of course not! OSAS is BOGUS!

 

[kcnalp]

Apparently your Bible has some serious omissions....

No Scripture! Of course you don't! OSAS is SATANIC!

 

[kcnalp]

I just pass on what Paul says......I guess he was “ judgmental” also ......btw, have you read Galatians yet? Please do so and then return and show me where I am wrong....

No Scripture? Of course you don't!