tailgator
Well-Known Member
The millinium comes after Christ comes and the weeds that are in the promised land today are burned up.
You don't think there are any weeds in the land promised to Jesus?
Really?
Offenders in the kingdom
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The millinium comes after Christ comes and the weeds that are in the promised land today are burned up.
You don't think there are any weeds in the land promised to Jesus?
Really?
Right, I agree there are unsaved people in the corporate church but John 3:5 can’t be referring to the corporate church unless someone can lose their salvation or be born again and then be not born again.
Ok, then Jesus sowed the seed in His kingdom already along with Satan sowing the tares.
How do you come to this conclusion if Jesus and Satan have already sowed their seeds?
Look what you are arguing here, then compare to the following which is clearly already meaning before the cross not after it.
John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
What you submitted per Matthew 23, the above was already applicable at the time.
Like it or not, accept it or not, NOSAS is 100% relevant to this topic. To try and understand this topic by ignoring/disregarding NOSAS is an attempt in vain to try and understand this topic. All that leads to is untruths and false teachings.
Once again your view doesn't allow everyone to have an equal opportunity to enter the kingdom of God willfully initially. Just because one has to be born again in order to enter the kingdom of God does not guarantee they can't die again. Meaning the 2nd death in this case. The ones Jesus said He never knew them in Matthew 7, they are obviously going to die again, meaning the 2nd death. Yet they were initially born again first. It just didn't pan out for them in the end. They ended up being workers of iniquity rather that doing the will of His Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Let's be real here. Atheists, unbelievers(thus not saved), and unbelieving Jews, for example, couldn't possibly be meant here. No way have atheists nor unbelieving Jews, nor unbelievers professed to have cast out devils in His name, etc. Only a believer can profess to having done that. Atheists, unbelievers(thus not saved), and unbelieving Jews, for example, couldn't care less about doing any of these things---prophesying in His name, casting out devils in His name, and in His name doing many wonderful works. Some argue that none of these were ever initially saved to begin with. But if that is true why are the unsaved professing to have done things only the saved would be doing? Where is the logic in that?
Once again, keeping in mind Amil has satan sowing the tares during the millennium when satan is in the pit. Premil doesn't. When satan is sowing the tares it is meaning in the here and now, the same here and now that Amils have satan sowing the tares while satan is in the pit. I see this being problematic for Amils not Premils. If you see it being problematic for Premils as well, can you expand on why it might also be problematic for Premils since the sowing of the tares by way of the devil would be in the past at this point? IOW, per Premil how could any of this still be relevant once the millennium begins post the 2nd coming of Christ?
Unbelieving Jews are most like in view in Matthew 7.
In Matthew 12:24 the Pharisees said Jesus cast out devils by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. Then in Matthew 12:27 Jesus says by whom do your children cast them out. Unless you think the Pharisees children were somehow believers in Jesus, they were casting out devils in the name of God, maybe Jehovah, LORD, or some other name but very doubtful it was in the name of Jesus.
When those in Matthew 7:21-23 say Lord, Lord they could very well be referring to the Old Testament references to Jesus, in which they did prophecy and cast out devils, all the while denying Jesus Christ was the fulfillment of the Old Testament.
As far as atheists, I don’t think Matthew 7 is talking about them.
Satan sowing the tares prior to a Premil millennium isn’t an issue, it’s when some Premil try to place the parable of the tares as occurring in the millennium, that causes the issue.
Some people on the one hand want to say the kingdom hasn’t been established yet but Satan has already sown the tares. The problem is both Jesus and Satan sow the seeds in His field which contradicts the kingdom not being established yet.
The Kingdom of God was established when Christ resurrected and then ascended to heaven to his Father. This is still the state of the Kingdom today - immature and still growing.
Both believers and unbelievers inhabit this Kingdom today, not yet matured and finalized. It is not ready for the Son to hand it over to the Father yet. It will need a complete cleansing where only genuine believers can 'go into' and stay the final form of the Kingdom. The offenders and unbelievers will be permanently separated out of and away from the Father....
Both believers and unbelievers inhabit this Kingdom today, not yet matured and finalized. It is not ready for the Son to hand it over to the Father yet. It will need a complete cleansing where only genuine believers can 'go into' and stay the final form of the Kingdom. The offenders and unbelievers will be permanently separated out of and away from the Father....
Look what the KJV says, though.
John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
It says both except you seem to be ignoring that or that you overlooked it somehow. You are not going to argue that verse 3 is in regards to being born again but verse 5 isn't, right?
Are you saying unbelievers inhabit the kingdom but haven’t actually entered it? How would that be possible?
What are you meaning by unbelievers, though? All the unsaved lost in general, including atheists, for example? If yes, in what way are atheists in the kingdom of God when one can not even see and enter the kingdom of God to begin with unless they are born again first?
John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Here’s what Pulpit commentary says on that …
Our Lord modifies the last clause, and speaks of entering into the kingdom of God rather than perceiving or discerning the features of the kingdom. Some have urged that ἰδεῖν of ver. 3 is equivalent to εἰσελθεῖν εἰς of ver. 5. The vision, say they, is only possible to those who partake of the privileges of the kingdom. But the latter phrase does certainly express a further idea - a richer and fuller appreciation of the authority and glory of the King; just as the "birth of water and of the Spirit" conveys deeper and further thought to Nicodemus, than did the previously used expression, γεννηθῇ ἄνωθεν.
Jesus moves in, takes over His kingdom on the earth, and gets rid of all who don't belong.
Much love!
How did those who don’t belong get into the kingdom when John 3:5 says a person must be born again to enter the kingdom?
Why then is there a rebellion after the millennium, if before the millennium Jesus already got rid of all who don't belong? This assuming Premil. Maybe you are not a Premil, though? Can't remember if you are or are not.
All peoples, of all spiritual persuasions, since the time of Christ's resurrection are in 'this Kingdom.' This Kingdom is not cleansed (weeded out) yet, until a future time. And today and as time progresses until that 'end,' only the believers have secured and truly ENTERED INTO the final form of Kingdom today in faith for transformation and thus salvation.
They are already there. It is not until the kingdom (that the Son shall be given) IS PURGED OF THE OFFENDERS that "... THEN shall the righteous shine as the Son. " Glorification of the saints does not happen until the offenders are removed from the kingdom. The millennial kingdom will not begin until the offenders are purged.
Mat 13:42-43 KJV 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Be Blessed
The PuP
I'm pre-mil.
More people will be born, who will choose to rebel against Jesus.
Much love!
There will be in this world righteous and wicked when Jesus returns. He establishes His kingdom on this earth, and removes the wicked.
There is more than one kind of kingdom.
Much love!
Ok, so Jesus sowed first then Satan sowed the tares. In Matthew 13:24 both the good seed and the tares are sown in His field. When did Jesus loose the field that will be given back to him?
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