JOHN 15:1 THE TRUE VINE

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Doug

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John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

Jesus is the vine and his disciples the branches. The branches can not bear fruit apart from the vine. The disciples are to bear much fruit and will be pruned to produce more fruit unto righteousness. The branches will be cleansed through the word of Christ. By their fruit they glorify God and are known to be his disciples.

Matthew 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

John came preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins to cleanse Israel for the earthly Davidic kingdom (Mark 1:4) and to believe on Jesus (Acts 19:4). If Israel did not repent and bear fruit they would be hewn down and cast into the fire.

Matthew 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

[Matthew 13:50 KJV] 50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

When Christ establishes his earthly kingdom the wicked unbelievers of Israel will be gathered out of the kingdom and cast into the fire.

Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The unprofitable believing remnant of Israel will be cast into outer darkness.

[Matthew 24:50-51 KJV] 50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for [him], and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint [him] his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The unprofitable servant will be assigned a portion with the hypocrites.

[Luke 13:28 KJV] 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you [yourselves] thrust out.

The unprofitable servant will not enter the kingdom on earth,

In the verses where the unbelievers are cast into hell, there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth; in the verses where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth there is loss (Matthew 8:12 22:13). Those servants who are described as weeping are not cast into hell; those who are described as wailing are cast into hell. Scripture is very precise in wording.

The disciples of Christ and his kingdom will be known by their fruits (Matthew 7:20) but nowhere does Paul say this about the church, the body of Christ. The church, the body is to be fruitful in good works and pleasing to the Lord (Colossians 1:10).
 

Pearl

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Have you read this book?

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LoveYeshua

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John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

Jesus is the vine and his disciples the branches. The branches can not bear fruit apart from the vine. The disciples are to bear much fruit and will be pruned to produce more fruit unto righteousness. The branches will be cleansed through the word of Christ. By their fruit they glorify God and are known to be his disciples.

Matthew 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

John came preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins to cleanse Israel for the earthly Davidic kingdom (Mark 1:4) and to believe on Jesus (Acts 19:4). If Israel did not repent and bear fruit they would be hewn down and cast into the fire.

Matthew 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

[Matthew 13:50 KJV] 50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

When Christ establishes his earthly kingdom the wicked unbelievers of Israel will be gathered out of the kingdom and cast into the fire.

Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The unprofitable believing remnant of Israel will be cast into outer darkness.

[Matthew 24:50-51 KJV] 50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for [him], and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint [him] his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The unprofitable servant will be assigned a portion with the hypocrites.

[Luke 13:28 KJV] 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you [yourselves] thrust out.

The unprofitable servant will not enter the kingdom on earth,

In the verses where the unbelievers are cast into hell, there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth; in the verses where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth there is loss (Matthew 8:12 22:13). Those servants who are described as weeping are not cast into hell; those who are described as wailing are cast into hell. Scripture is very precise in wording.

The disciples of Christ and his kingdom will be known by their fruits (Matthew 7:20) but nowhere does Paul say this about the church, the body of Christ. The church, the body is to be fruitful in good works and pleasing to the Lord (Colossians 1:10).
So Doug, what will happen to you, a follower of Paul, what does all this mean for you?
 

Doug

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So Doug, what will happen to you, a follower of Paul, what does all this mean for you?
I said it here...............The disciples of Christ and his kingdom will be known by their fruits (Matthew 7:20) but nowhere does Paul say this about the church, the body of Christ. The church, the body is to be fruitful in good works and pleasing to the Lord............we can see that we in the church today cant judge who is a believer by their fruit as Israel was to know who are false prophets heading into the kingdom................[Mat 7:15-16 KJV] 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
 

Pearl

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i have not.....care to tell me about it
A classic by Colin Urquhart founder of Kingdom Faith Church and Ministries about the Christian's relationship with his heavenly Father. It's a long time since I read it. An explanation of John chapter 15.

Apostolic leader founder of Kingdom Faith Church and well known author of many best sellers, Colin Urquhart's apostolic ministry was widely recognised and valued throughout the world having both experienced and led others in revival. He authored over 40 books including a new translation of the new testament, entitled "The Truth" which was the result of over 2 years work.
 

Doug

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A classic by Colin Urquhart founder of Kingdom Faith Church and Ministries about the Christian's relationship with his heavenly Father. It's a long time since I read it. An explanation of John chapter 15.

Apostolic leader founder of Kingdom Faith Church and well known author of many best sellers, Colin Urquhart's apostolic ministry was widely recognised and valued throughout the world having both experienced and led others in revival. He authored over 40 books including a new translation of the new testament, entitled "The Truth" which was the result of over 2 years work.
I dont think John 15 is directed to us so what does he say that you agree with about John 15
 

Pearl

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I dont think John 15 is directed to us so what does he say that you agree with about John 15
Really? I never met another Christian who didn't believe that the passage was for the Church.
 

Doug

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Really? I never met another Christian who didn't believe that the passage was for the Church.
Here are some reasons why I dont think John 15 is directed at the church today in this dispensation. This was meant for Israel. Jesus came to save his people Israel. Paul revealed that all could be saved by his redemption.

[Jhn 15:10 KJV] 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Israel had to keep his commandments.......they were in a covenant relationship which required obedience......his commandments for Israel were more than love one another.....he commanded to keep the law (Matthew 19:17)......we aren't under the law

[Jhn 15:7 KJV] 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

This is a covenant promise.....if they abide what they ask will be done......Paul gave us all our doctrine for the church the body of Christ and nowhere gives us this promise

Here are related verses;

[Mat 3:10 KJV] 10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Again covenant curse if they dont bear fruit (Deuteronomy 30:19 11:26-28)

[Mat 7:16 KJV] 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Israel was to know by their fruits if they were false prophets heading into the tribulation (Matthew 7:15-16)

[Mat 21:43 KJV] 43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Israel was promised to reign with Christ in the prophetic kingdom on earth, but it was conditional on them being fruitful (Isiah 9:6-7)

All scripture is for our learning but not all is directed for us to act on
 

Pearl

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Here are some reasons why I dont think John 15 is directed at the church today in this dispensation. This was meant for Israel. Jesus came to save his people Israel. Paul revealed that all could be saved by his redemption.

[Jhn 15:10 KJV] 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Israel had to keep his commandments.......they were in a covenant relationship which required obedience......his commandments for Israel were more than love one another.....he commanded to keep the law (Matthew 19:17)......we aren't under the law

[Jhn 15:7 KJV] 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

This is a covenant promise.....if they abide what they ask will be done......Paul gave us all our doctrine for the church the body of Christ and nowhere gives us this promise

Here are related verses;

[Mat 3:10 KJV] 10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Again covenant curse if they dont bear fruit (Deuteronomy 30:19 11:26-28)

[Mat 7:16 KJV] 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Israel was to know by their fruits if they were false prophets heading into the tribulation (Matthew 7:15-16)

[Mat 21:43 KJV] 43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Israel was promised to reign with Christ in the prophetic kingdom on earth, but it was conditional on them being fruitful (Isiah 9:6-7)

All scripture is for our learning but not all is directed for us to act on
In John 15 Jesus uses the relationship of branches to the vine to illustrate our relationship to Him: That we need to stay close to him.
 

Doug

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In John 15 Jesus uses the relationship of branches to the vine to illustrate our relationship to Him: That we need to stay close to him.
There may be some applications we can make for ourselves from scripture but that doesnt diminish the need to realize that not all scripture is directed to us
 

Pearl

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There may be some applications we can make for ourselves from scripture but that doesnt diminish the need to realize that not all scripture is directed to us
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
 

Doug

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2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
Yes absolutely we can learn from all scripture but we must rightly divide it to know who is being addressed in scripture
a couple of examples:
[Mat 25:30 KJV] 30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

If you think this verse is about you that you can be cast into outer darkness, which some say is hell, then you are made fearful and have no assurance.....this verse is about Jews who have to be profitable to enter the prophetic kingdom on earth

[Mat 7:19-20 KJV] 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

If you think you are being told to examine others and determine if they are believers you would be wrong
 

Pearl

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Yes absolutely we can learn from all scripture but we must rightly divide it to know who is being addressed in scripture
a couple of examples:
[Mat 25:30 KJV] 30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

If you think this verse is about you that you can be cast into outer darkness, which some say is hell, then you are made fearful and have no assurance.....this verse is about Jews who have to be profitable to enter the prophetic kingdom on earth

[Mat 7:19-20 KJV] 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

If you think you are being told to examine others and determine if they are believers you would be wrong
Seems we have been taught differently so no probs. I have found scripture to be the LIVING word of God and as such it has spoken to me and guided me over the years and i still maintain that I am one of the branches connected to and growing on the True Vine - Jesus. I am in Him and He is in me. Connected.
 

Doug

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Seems we have been taught differently so no probs. I have found scripture to be the LIVING word of God and as such it has spoken to me and guided me over the years and i still maintain that I am one of the branches connected to and growing on the True Vine - Jesus. I am in Him and He is in me. Connected.
OK ........good thoughtful and respectful discussion.......anytime over anything is welcomed
 
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