Not ALL the physically dead are raised at the same time, the dead in Christ rise FIRST.
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CadyandZoe
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CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Wow. Unbelievable.
Luke 1:13 But the angel said to him: “Do not be afraid, Zechariah; your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you are to call him John. 14 He will be a joy and delight to you, and many will rejoice because of his birth, 15 for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even before he is born. 16 He will bring back many of the people of Israel to the Lord their God. 17 And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”
Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.
Malachi 4:5 “See, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the Lord comes. 6 He will turn the hearts of the parents to their children, and the hearts of the children to their parents; or else I will come and strike the land with total destruction.”
So, you are claiming that the angel talking to Zechariah was wrong that John the Baptist would "go before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children...to make read a people prepared for the Lord" just as Malachi prophesied that Elijah would do?
Fulfilled with the advent of Christ coming to earth a man!
I've decided to give them no more credibility, I put them on ignore!
It's amazing how CaZ knows more about what Jesus said, than Jesus knows about what Jesus said.
The resurrection of damnation is the second resurrection, those who are of the first resurrection shall never die again in the second death, they are called the blessed and holy so you are mistaken.
Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Luke 20:35-36
King James Version
35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
I believe what the angel said about John. The angel was not predicting that John would fulfill Malachi 4; he was predicting that John would go before the Lord in the spirit and power of Elijah. That is, John will embody the same fervor, authority, and prophetic mission as Elijah, the Old Testament prophet. And John did that -- both John and Elijah had the same mission and carried out their mission boldly. Unfortunately, he was unable to turn the children to the fathers or turn the fathers to the children.
It is also worth noting that Luke doesn't quote Malachi 4 in his gospel with regard to John. He quotes Isaiah 40 instead.
I also find it interesting that Malachi 4 mentions two people by name: Moses and Elijah. Isn't it interesting that both of these men show up during the Transfiguration of Jesus?
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
It's amazing how CaZ knows more about what Jesus said, than Jesus knows about what Jesus said.
They have knowledge to read what the Bible says, but believing with the heart comes by faith, and faith requires man to believe what they cannot see! Only the Spirit can penetrate their heart and remove the pride that consumes them. They are no different than the Pharisee's of Old.
The only resurrection that shall keep man from the second death is the resurrection of Christ alone! It is by partaking of Him that man overcomes the second death. No man shall be bodily resurrected immortal before the hour that is coming, when the last trumpet sounds and this time given whereby man MUST be saved shall be no longer. The only resurrection from mortal to immortal before that time, is of Christ ALONE!
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Jeremiah 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Explain how this part was fulfilled when Christ walked the earth 2000 years ago---a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. That wasn't His role during His first advent
The first time He came it was as a lowly servant. Therefore, what is meant in verse 5 has to be meaning the 2nd time He comes, which is still in our future. Christ came 2000 years ago, and to this day I'm yet to see anything involving the past 2000 years through now that describes this--- and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
I don't know what is wrong with the thinking of some of you interpreters? You don't deny 2 comings, yet you act as if everything is fulfilled during the first coming, none of it is fulfilled during the 2nd coming. IOW, some of you are conflating 2nd coming events with that of first coming events. Try using some discernment instead by asking yourself, per reality involving the past 2000 years does this describe that to a T---and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth?
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Through His death and resurrection Christ ascended to heaven and "there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed."
Do you really deny that this prophecy of Jeremiah and all the prophets concerning the Messiah to come is true for all who have as well as all who shall believe on Him throughout this age of time since Christ has come?
ALL that was prophesied pertaining to Christ was fulfilled and is being fulfilled just as the prophets foretell. Premillennialists don't understand this because you are stuck in the physical realm of this earth and don't seem to be able to believe what you cannot physically see. Christ is not ambiguous, He tells us the Kingdom of God is NOT NOW of this world, yet you are preoccupied and consumed with looking and waiting for the Kingdom of God to physically come to this earth. Because you cannot understand how that which was physical of Old, the prophets foretell would be SPIRITUALLY fulfilled IN HIM.
The second coming of Christ after time given this earth whereby man MUST be saved shall usher in eternity for all who are saved. It will also be a day of destruction by fire for all who remain in unbelief.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Wrong! Why do you blatantly butcher scripture to make it say what you want it to say?
Luke 1:16 He will bring back many of the people of Israel to the Lord their God. 17 And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”
This says "He WILL bring back many of the people of Israel to the Lord their God" and that "he WILL go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord". You say he failed to do what the angel said he would do. You make it as though the angel of the Lord did not know what he was talking about. But, he did. John did do what the angel said he would do.
Mark 1:4 And so John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. 5 The whole Judean countryside and all the people of Jerusalem went out to him. Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River.
John baptized many people, so he did indeed "bring back many of the people of Israel to the Lord their God" and "turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.” as the angel said he would do and as you falsely deny that he did.
What are you talking about? Luke 1:17 is clearly a reference to Malachi 4:5-6.
Yes, it's interesting. And doesn't change the fact that scripture says John the Baptist was the Elijah to come that Malachi prophesied about.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Exactly. Premils do not look at Revelation 20:6 carefully. They don't recognize that having part in the first resurrection is required in order to avoid the second death.
And it's not a bodily resurrection that makes it so that we avoid the second death. If that was the case, then those who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord wouldn't avoid the second death because they would not have part in the first resurrection in that case.
They don't think about the fact that the second death has no power over those who have spiritually had part in Christ's resurrection, which scripture says is the first resurrection (Acts 26:23, 1 Cor 15:20), and are saved. So, the souls of the dead in Christ that John saw in heaven already had part in the first resurrection before he sees them. The second death already had no power over them. Also, they are already priests of God and of Christ (Rev 1:5-6). So, Revelation 20:6 is talking about a current reality, not a future event.
Roger, IMO you are not dealing with the point I was raising. My point had to do with this---and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth--and how the past 2000 years are describing this.
For example. In the NT, where execute and judgment are used in the same sentence, it is found in the following two passages.
John 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Anyone reading those two passages and sticking to the context is not going to apply those passages to His first advent. It is obvious per the context that it is involving His 2nd advent.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Because you have your own carnal understanding of what that means. That's talking about Jesus being a King and reigning, right? He became a King and began reigning long ago already.
Nothing. What's wrong is your denial that Jesus is King now and reigns now.
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
You think He doesn't execute judgment and justice in the earth? What does that mean to you? Is there anyone or anything that He doesn't have authority over right now? Does anything happen that He has no control over? Is He not able to intervene whenever He sees fit? Is it not just for Him to save those who trust in Him and bring their souls to heaven when they die and for Him to condemn those who don't while sending their souls to hell when they die? Your understanding of His reign is flawed and that's why you don't understand prophecies like Jeremiah 23:5.
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