Not ALL the physically dead are raised at the same time, the dead in Christ rise FIRST.

[rwb]

Right now this is what you are doing........WHY???

Prove the doctrine I espouse causes contradictions into the Word of God! Use the Bible, because I shall not be convinced by your opinions.

WHY do you reject your own advice???

Why do you believe I do???

Amil and all the denominations do this = not me!!!

Prove what you allege using the Bible!

As long as you deny the TRUTH your understanding will be diluted by false doctrine such as:
Directly denying the words of Christ by saying: "there is no literal 1,000 Years"

Question: Do you also deny the literal Resurrection at His Second Coming???

First, I don't deny the TRUTH! Nor do I read my doctrine or opinions into the Word of God! I read the Bible as one cohesive whole that is without contradiction.

When John writes of a/the thousand years, he is speaking of TIME. Because that is what a/the thousand years are. You've decided a/the thousand years equates to exactly ONE thousand literal years of more time to come AFTER Christ comes again! I will assume you do this without realizing how you are trying to force the words of John to fit your preconceived opinion. Because for your doctrine to be truth there must be a physical immortal resurrection of saints raised to life again BEFORE the hour coming when the last trumpet sounds and time given this earth whereby man must be saved shall be no longer.

Do you really believe that John is saying there shall be more than ONE physical resurrection of the physically dead to come, one at the beginning of your ONE thousand years, and then again after the thousand years have expired? If you believe that then you force contradiction into God's Word. Because as I've repeatedly said there shall be none, except Christ resurrected immortal before the hour that is coming, when the last trumpet sounds, and time given this earth shall be no longer.

Why would I deny the bodily resurrection from the graves of ALL who have died, since that is what is plainly written? But what you want us to believe is that there will first be a bodily immortal resurrection of saints, and then one thousand literal years later, there will be another bodily resurrection of the dead??? Contradiction & confusion, the hallmark of this millennial doctrine you espouse!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

On the contrary, both Amil and Premil agree that participation in Jesus' resurrection is required to avoid the second death.

And scripture says that His resurrection is the first resurrection (Acts 26:23, 1 Cor 15:20), so why can't you put two and two together and see that it's talking about having part in Christ's resurrection in Revelation 20:6?

 

[rwb]

And scripture says that His resurrection is the first resurrection (Acts 26:23, 1 Cor 15:20), so why can't you put two and two together and see that it's talking about having part in Christs's resurrection in Revelation 20:6?

It's called PRIDE!

 

[David in NJ]

Prove the doctrine I espouse causes contradictions into the Word of God! Use the Bible, because I shall not be convinced by your opinions.



Why do you believe I do???



Prove what you allege using the Bible!



First, I don't deny the TRUTH! Nor do I read my doctrine or opinions into the Word of God! I read the Bible as one cohesive whole that is without contradiction.

When John writes of a/the thousand years, he is speaking of TIME. Because that is what a/the thousand years are. You've decided a/the thousand years equates to exactly ONE thousand literal years of more time to come AFTER Christ comes again! I will assume you do this without realizing how you are trying to force the words of John to fit your preconceived opinion. Because for your doctrine to be truth there must be a physical immortal resurrection of saints raised to life again BEFORE the hour coming when the last trumpet sounds and time given this earth whereby man must be saved shall be no longer.

Do you really believe that John is saying there shall be more than ONE physical resurrection of the physically dead to come, one at the beginning of your ONE thousand years, and then again after the thousand years have expired? If you believe that then you force contradiction into God's Word. Because as I've repeatedly said there shall be none, except Christ resurrected immortal before the hour that is coming, when the last trumpet sounds, and time given this earth shall be no longer.

Why would I deny the bodily resurrection from the graves of ALL who have died, since that is what is plainly written? But what you want us to believe is that there will first be a bodily immortal resurrection of saints, and then one thousand literal years later, there will be another bodily resurrection of the dead??? Contradiction & confusion, the hallmark of this millennial doctrine you espouse!

1,000 literal Years of literal 24 hours a day and 7 days a week for 52 weeks a year

The EXACT SPECIFIC amount of Time is given specifically to us by the LORD = Rev ch20

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the Abyss, holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3And he threw him into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him, so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years were complete.
After that, he must be released for a brief period of time.

 

[rwb]

1,000 literal Years of literal 24 hours a day and 7 days a week for 52 weeks a year

How do you make that fit with what the text says? John writes some lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years then they were martyred for their faith. The text also says that others shall reign with Christ during this same period of time likened a thousand years. The two are mentioned separately because John first speaks of those who kept the faith to the end of their lives, but they are not the only ones "holy and blessed" by God. Even though some saints will not be martyred for their faith, they too shall reign with Christ for a thousand years. How many one-thousand-year periods of time do you think John is speaking of? How can one thousand years of time be that which those martyred lived and reigned with Christ before they died, also be one thousand years when those "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years" be the same exact ONE thousand years?

 

[David in NJ]

How do you make that fit with what the text says? John writes some lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years then they were martyred for their faith. The text also says that others shall reign with Christ during this same period of time likened a thousand years. The two are mentioned separately because John first speaks of those who kept the faith to the end of their lives, but they are not the only ones "holy and blessed" by God. Even though some saints will not be martyred for their faith, they too shall reign with Christ for a thousand years. How many one-thousand-year periods of time do you think John is speaking of? How can one thousand years of time be that which those martyred lived and reigned with Christ before they died, also be one thousand years when those "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years" be the same exact ONE thousand years?

The text says exactly what it says = there will be a 1,000 Year Period that has a Beginning and an End = Time

Time was created by God in Genesis = YES or NO ?

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

I KNOW Jesus ALONE is the "first resurrection"!

Jesus said I am the Resurrection and the Life. Jesus also said I am the way, the truth, and the Life.

All the above identify who the Son of God Jesus Christ truly is, and it also reveals His relationship with the Father. Which I will get to in a bit

But notice Jesus did not say I am the firstresurrection. The term the first resurrection is only used in Revelation 20:5-6. But Amils are trying to conflate the words of Jesus as being The Resurrection with the definition of the firstresurrection as described in Revelation 20:5-6.

So what is the difference? When Jesus Christ said I am The Resurrection and The Life Jesus was revealing to us who He was, which is in Truth The very Word of God made flesh.

It is God’s Word that gives Life. It is God’s Wordthat is the way, the truth, and the Life. And it is God’s Word that is The Resurrection.

So both the first resurrection and the second resurrection happen by God’s Word calling them from death to life, which is why Jesus said He is The Resurrection and The Life.

But Amils don’t understand this, which why they call Jesus’ resurrection the first resurrection. But before Jesus was resurrected dead people were raised from the dead, even before Jesus came, and even while he was on earth, and also after Jesus ascended into heaven.

And all those who were raised from physical death were all raised by the Word of God, which is The Resurrection and The Life.

So knowing the difference between The Resurrection and the Life and the first resurrection of the dead in Christ will keep you being led astray by the false doctrines of men.

Peace and God bless

 

[rwb]

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the Abyss, holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3And he threw him into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him, so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years were complete.
After that, he must be released for a brief period of time.

Ask yourself who has the key of the bottomless pit with power to bind the dragon, that old serpent, the Devil and Satan? Then read your Bible to see when this spirit being has been or shall no longer be able to deceive the nations (Gentiles)? Stop thinking, (if this is what you might be thinking) that this spirit being is bound to bring total peace and harmony to this earth for ONE thousand literal years! You must prove from the Bible that there shall be a time of complete harmony and peace among mankind upon this earth if that is what you believe is the purpose for him being bound in the bottomless pit.

Revelation 20:1-3 (KJV) And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Then read Rev 10:5-7 to discover this specific TIME symbolized a/the thousand years shall be no longer when the last trumpet begins to sound. That's when this demonic spirit being shall be loosed for a "little season" to once again gather together Gog & Magog (those deceived) from throughout the whole earth, only to have the fire of God come down from heaven to utterly destroy them all.

 

[David in NJ]

Ask yourself who has the key of the bottomless pit with power to bind the dragon, that old serpent, the Devil and Satan? Then read your Bible to see when this spirit being has been or shall no longer be able to deceive the nations (Gentiles)? Stop thinking, (if this is what you might be thinking) that this spirit being is bound to bring total peace and harmony to this earth for ONE thousand literal years! You must prove from the Bible that there shall be a time of complete harmony and peace among mankind upon this earth if that is what you believe is the purpose for him being bound in the bottomless pit.

Revelation 20:1-3 (KJV) And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Then read Rev 10:5-7 to discover this specific TIME symbolized a/the thousand years shall be no longer when the last trumpet begins to sound. That's when this demonic spirit being shall be loosed for a "little season" to once again gather together Gog & Magog (those deceived) from throughout the whole earth, only to have the fire of God come down from heaven to utterly destroy them all.

Time was created by God in Genesis = YES or NO ?

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Scripture explicitly teaches that His resurrection was the first resurrection.

You Amils are trying to conflate the meaning of Jesus being The Resurrection with the term the first resurrection as defined in Rev. 20:5-6.

That is why your Amil buddy said Jesus alone is the first resurrection. Which is like saying the first resurrection is past already.

2 Timothy 2:18
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

 

[David in NJ]

You Amils are trying to conflate the meaning of Jesus being The Resurrection with the term the first resurrection as defined in Rev. 20:5-6.

That is why your Amil buddy said Jesus alone is the first resurrection. Which is like saying the first resurrection is past already.

2 Timothy 2:18
Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

@rwb is included here

In FACT JESUS Alone is the First Resurrection for HE Alone is the BEGINNING & END of the FIRST FRUITS(Plural) unto GOD.

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming - 1 Corinthians 15:20-23

So we can see here, CLEAR as DAY, that all who have died in Christ are a inseparable Member of Christ and Part of the FIRST Resurrection.

1 Cor ch15 is the SAME as Revelation ch20 =
A.) Blessed and holy are those(Plural) who share in the first resurrection.
B.) The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ
C.) and will reign with him for a thousand years.

Know your ABC's and you will know TRUTH

 

[CadyandZoe]

And scripture says that His resurrection is the first resurrection (Acts 26:23, 1 Cor 15:20), so why can't you put two and two together and see that it's talking about having part in Christs's resurrection in Revelation 20:6?

Listen, you constantly quote your proof texts taken out of context, which don't actually prove the point you are attempting to make. In Acts Paul says that Jesus was the first to proclaim light to the people and to the Gentiles. FIRST TO PROCLAIM. Get it? Get it?

He says that Jesus is the "first fruits" of those that sleep. FIRST FRUITS!

Look Here!

1 Corinthians 15:22-28

For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, 24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death. 27 For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. 28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all. ​

Paul is NOT talking about participating in a supposed first resurrection. He tells you the order of the resurrection. Christ was resurrected. WHO IS NEXT? after that those who are Christ’s at His coming,

Then comes the end:
a. he hands over the kingdom to God the father
b. he abolishes all rule and authority
c. reigns until he has put all his enemies under his feet

Understand yet?

Paul explicitly tells you that Jesus will reign on earth AFTER he raises his followers from the dead. He will rule on earth until he has put all his enemies under his feet AFTER, AFTER he raises his followers from the dead. He will hand over the kingdom to God the father AFTER, AFTER, AFTER he raises his followers from the dead.

Get it? Amillennialism is NOT supported by scripture. Period. You single out one verse in a paragraph that you say supports your view but ignore the entire rest of he paragraph that throws DOWN your view.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Listen, you constantly quote your proof texts taken out of context, which don't actually prove the point you are attempting to make. In Acts Paul says that Jesus was the first to proclaim light to the people and to the Gentiles. FIRST TO PROCLAIM. Get it? Get it?

He says that Jesus is the "first fruits" of those that sleep. FIRST FRUITS!

Look Here!

1 Corinthians 15:22-28

For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, 24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death. 27 For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. 28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all. ​

Paul is NOT talking about participating in a supposed first resurrection. He tells you the order of the resurrection. Christ was resurrected. WHO IS NEXT? after that those who are Christ’s at His coming,

Then comes the end:
a. he hands over the kingdom to God the father
b. he abolishes all rule and authority
c. reigns until he has put all his enemies under his feet

Understand yet?

Paul explicitly tells you that Jesus will reign on earth AFTER he raises his followers from the dead. He will rule on earth until he has put all his enemies under his feet AFTER, AFTER he raises his followers from the dead. He will hand over the kingdom to God the father AFTER, AFTER, AFTER he raises his followers from the dead.

Get it? Amillennialism is NOT supported by scripture. Period. You single out one verse in a paragraph that you say supports your view but ignore the entire rest of he paragraph that throws DOWN your view.

By not understanding "firstfruits" you are starting from a bad place.
Christ is the firstfruits of harvest.
Resurrection is part of that harvest.
"Firstfruits" is just that...FIRSTFRUITS
THAT COMPONENT (ideally) stays on the table

We move on FROM THERE.
JESUS along with those in paradise RESURRECTED and went to heaven AS FIRSTFRUITS to God.
Plain simple truth. No additives or dilutants.
Now we can proceeded to understand what firstfruits POINTS TO

ALWAYS POINTS TO MAIN HARVEST.
( THE CHURCH IS MAIN HARVEST)
PREtrib rapture!!!
Thank you Jesus!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

In FACT JESUS Alone is the First Resurrection

You sound just like the Amils. Here is the only 2 places “the first resurrection” is mentioned in scripture…

Revelation 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is “the first resurrection.”

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in “the first resurrection:“on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

By the definition above Jesus ALONE is not what the words of God consider to be “the first resurrection.”

Words have particular meanings in the way they are used in context. That is why the Amils conflate Jesus being the firstborn from the dead to Jesus ALONE being “the first resurrection“ mentioned in Rev 20:5-6.

Stick to the way it is worded in scripture.

 

[David in NJ]

You sound just like the Amils. Here is the only 2 places “the first resurrection” is mentioned in scripture…

Revelation 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is “the first resurrection.”

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in “the first resurrection:“on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

By the definition above Jesus ALONE is not what the words of God consider to be “the first resurrection.”

Words have particular meanings in the way they are used in context. That is why the Amils conflate Jesus being the firstborn from the dead to Jesus ALONE being “the first resurrection“ mentioned in Rev 20:5-6.

Stick to the way it is worded in scripture.

The MAIN difference between myself and the Amil doctrine is as i SHOWED you from 1 Cor ch15 and Revelation ch20

JESUS Alone is the First Resurrection and HE is the Last = 1 Cor ch15

Gospel to 1 Thess 4:13-18, 1 Cor ch15 , Rev ch20 = Who is in between the 'First and the Last' and a inseparable Part of Christ?

 

[rwb]

Time was created by God in Genesis = YES or NO ?

Yes! God said each day consists of morning and evening. There is also a very specific time recorded in the Revelation that is a/the thousand years. Instead of answering my questions regarding how this period of time (a/the thousand years) can be both before the martyred saints were faithful unto death, as well as after, the same period of time for saints called blessed and holy who shall also reign with Christ during this same period of time, you attempt to make the subject about God's creation of time - why?

 

[David in NJ]

Yes! God said each day consists of morning and evening. There is also a very specific time recorded in the Revelation that is a/the thousand years. Instead of answering my questions regarding how this period of time (a/the thousand years) can be both before the martyred saints were faithful unto death, as well as after, the same period of time for saints called blessed and holy who shall also reign with Christ during this same period of time, you attempt to make the subject about God's creation of time - why?

Well, You cannot have ONLY a 1,000 years BEFORE His 2nd Coming because............2,000 Years has already been!!!

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

The MAIN difference between myself and the Amil doctrine is as i SHOWED you from 1 Cor ch15 and Revelation ch20

Right, but the way you worded and redefined the meaning of “the first resurrection” below leads to confusion.

David in NJ said:
In FACT JESUS Alone is the First Resurrection (end quote)

You are not going to find the saying “JESUS Alone is the First Resurrection” in scripture. That is why I said stick to the way it is written and defined in Rev. 20:5-6.

 

[David in NJ]

Right, but the way you worded and redefined the meaning of “the first resurrection” below leads to confusion.

David in NJ said:
In FACT JESUS Alone is the First Resurrection (end quote)

You are not going to find the saying “JESUS Alone is the First Resurrection” in scripture. That is why I said stick to the way it is written and defined in Rev. 20:5-6.

#1 - no one can be SAVED except by JESUS Alone = Yes or No

#2 - no one can be part of His Kingdom except by JESUS Alone = Yes or No = (JESUS automatically includes the Father And HS)

#3 - Why are you not SEEING that i said LOUD n CLEAR that we who are in CHRIST are a inseparable Member of His Body.

I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

“Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last.

1 Cor 15:20-23

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

Can you SEE the Holy Spirit declaring JESUS as the First and the Last here?

 

[rwb]

Well, You cannot have ONLY a 1,000 years BEFORE His 2nd Coming because............2,000 Years has already been!!!

Which is why a/the thousand years cannot be literally one thousand years! You prove my argument for a/the thousand years symbolically equating to time that began with the first coming of Christ and shall not end until the seventh/last trumpet begins to sound. You want to equate the symbolic time written in the Revelation to the literal/physical twenty-four hour days of creation. That does not compute! Time given this earth from creation to the end of days shall be physically fulfilled until this physical earth is utterly burned up. The time for which Satan is bound equates to the same period of time that Christ came to earth a man that the Gospel would be proclaimed unto all the nations of the world so the SPIRITUAL Kingdom of God would be spiritually complete. Prior to the first advent of Christ, the nations of the world (Gentiles) were without God, in darkness & unbelief.

But now, since Christ has come and bound Satan by His cross and resurrection, the nations are no longer in bondage to darkness and death when they turn to Christ through HIs Gospel proclaimed in the power of His Spirit and believe Christ for everlasting life. Why? Because to believe in Christ is to have part in His resurrection life by being born again of the Spirit. When they have been born again they have entered into another realm that is NOT of this world of literal time, they are spiritually of the Kingdom of God in heaven, a spiritual, not physical realm where they do not worship Christ through their works, but they worship Him in spirit and in truth.