No Law : Under Grace

[GracePeace]

Righteousness by faith, not righteousness is faith.

If you deny that faith is counted as righteousness, you are denying, suppressing, the truth that God does the right thing and forgives and cleanses us of all unrighteousness. He doesn't do the wrong thing--hold a grudge. He does the right thing--He glorifies Christ by forgiving us for His sake. You're "taking" from God the thing He alone can do.

 

[Behold]

Salvation "in Christ".

This simply means... that Jesus has accomplished righteousness by dying sinless, and he has offered the eternal sacrifice for the sin of the world by shedding His blood and dying.

So, God takes ALL that, which Christ has accomplished, and gives it to us as a "GIFT".... when we God our Faith in Christ.

The "Gift of Salvation"
The "Gift of Righteousness'"
The "Gift of Eternal Life"

We can't DO that for ourselves............we can only RECEIVE from God what Christ has provided 2000 yrs ago, and when we receive this "Gift of Salvation" then we have it., and this is to become "born....again", Spiritually, as a "new Creation" "In Christ".

We, the born again... now ETERNALLY exist spiritually joined to God and Christ.....and that is the "new Birth"... that is.. to have become..

"Translated from Darkness.....TO LIGHT"...

See that "LIGHT"?
That Light is the Kingdom of God.. as "God exists IN LIGHT", and "Jesus is the LIGHT of the World", and all the born again CHRISTians, are born again as "Children of THE LIGHT".

 

[gpresdo]

All the more reasons for 'showing' the actual Bible Scripture instead of just 'saying' it says this or that.

Agreed.
Do you see an experience which you have in mind? If so show it.

 

[gpresdo]

Salvation "in Christ".

This simply means... that Jesus has accomplished righteousness by dying sinless, and he has offered the eternal sacrifice for the sin of the world by shedding His blood and dying.

So, God takes ALL that, which Christ has accomplished, and gives it to us as a "GIFT".... when we God our Faith in Christ.

The "Gift of Salvation"
The "Gift of Righteousness'"
The "Gift of Eternal Life"

We can't DO that for ourselves............we can only RECEIVE from God what Christ has provided 2000 yrs ago, and when we receive this "Gift of Salvation" then we have it., and this is to become "born....again", Spiritually, as a "new Creation" "In Christ".

We, the born again... now ETERNALLY exist spiritually joined to God and Christ.....and that is the "new Birth"... that is.. to have become..

"Translated from Darkness.....TO LIGHT"...

See that "LIGHT"?
That Light is the Kingdom of God.. as "God exists IN LIGHT", and "Jesus is the LIGHT of the World", and all the born again CHRISTians, are born again as "Children of THE LIGHT".

Amen.
Put very well!!.

 

[bro.tan]

Listen..

Is there a Christian on the earth, who does not understand that they are to behave , as a lifestyle, that would not offend God?

So, you can call that "moral law", or you can call that "present your body, as a living sacrifice".

Nearly All Believers, know that wrong is wrong, and right isn't wrong.

The issue is........if a person is trying to go to heaven, by believing that... "I have to keep these laws, or i can't go to Heaven".

"I have to do these WORKS, or i can't go to heaven"...

See that one?
They are trying to save themselves by MORAL LAW, or MOSES's Law or by self effort....... and that denies that Jesus is their Savior, regarding their FAITH.

If it was that simple the Bible would be a smaller book. But what you fell to understand is that the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. (Rev 12: 9).

Paul says in (Rom. 7:7,12) (v.7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET.

Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law. (v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Why in the world would a Christian want to do away with something that God said is holy.

Paul says in (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin.

Which mean we can do as we please when we please! People we must realize everybody has laws by which we must operate by, the governments have laws, your job have laws, your card games have laws, even the boy scouts have laws. But now you are going to try and convince yourselves that the creator of the world has no laws by which we must live. Now any Christian in their right mind wouldn’t dare say that it’s okay to steal, kill or commit adultery or break any of the other seven commandments. But when it comes to the fourth commandment, people avoid it like a plague! They are either uninformed about which day is the Sabbath day of the God of the Bible or they are just following the tradition of religion that was passed down through the family or maybe they have let some preacher give them other excuses for ignoring God’s true day of worship

 

[Hobie]

No, we are under the law of Christ Jesus.

Who wrote the Ten Commandments with His own finger...Think that through for a bit...

 

[Johann]

Who wrote the Ten Commandments with His own finger...Think that through for a bit...

WHY did YHVH wrote the Ten Words?

 

[gpresdo]

If it was that simple the Bible would be a smaller book. But what you fell to understand is that the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. (Rev 12: 9).

Paul says in (Rom. 7:7,12) (v.7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET.

Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law. (v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Why in the world would a Christian want to do away with something that God said is holy.

Paul says in (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin.

Which mean we can do as we please when we please! People we must realize everybody has laws by which we must operate by, the governments have laws, your job have laws, your card games have laws, even the boy scouts have laws. But now you are going to try and convince yourselves that the creator of the world has no laws by which we must live. Now any Christian in their right mind wouldn’t dare say that it’s okay to steal, kill or commit adultery or break any of the other seven commandments. But when it comes to the fourth commandment, people avoid it like a plague! They are either uninformed about which day is the Sabbath day of the God of the Bible or they are just following the tradition of religion that was passed down through the family or maybe they have let some preacher give them other excuses for ignoring God’s true day of worship

Please give us a one short sentence line of your point in summary?

 

[bro.tan]

Please give us a one short sentence line of your point in summary?

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. (Ecclesiastes 12: 13, 14)

 

[JunChosen]

In other words, If there was no law or commandment that said....>"tho shalt not murder"< then if you murdered, there is nothing to define it as murder.

This is the reason God is much wiser than man!! God did not write the word "murder" but the word "kill." Does this mean that man can't kill animals for man's consumption for food?? Of course, not!!

You're playing the image of Satan who wants to change times and laws.

To God Be The Glory

 

[doctrox]

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. (Ecclesiastes 12: 13, 14)

Ah, it's that SDA "commandments" boondoggle that has you spinning your wheels.

The Sabbath is not mentioned in Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Daniel, and most of the minor prophets. Nothing is said about it by any of the prophets which can fairly be made to apply to Christians. Several texts are applied by Adventists to our times, but it is all assumption without proof.

Jesus (not God, BTW) gave commandments to his disciples, Acts, 1:2, and commanded them to teach them to all nations. Matt. 28:18-20. We are to keep his commandments. John 14:15,21; 15:10. Then would it not be sin to break them? Who dare deny it? "Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God," Eph. 1:1, said, "Put away lying," "sin not," and "steal no more," Eph. 4:25-28, and, "The things I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord." 1 Cor. 14:37. And yet Adventists will say, that if the old law is gone, there are no commandments against lying, stealing, etc. We know better, as the above teaches. Indeed Paul says, "I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you," "for I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God." Acts 20:20, 27. Every sin of which the human heart is guilty, is plainly forbidden in the New Testament over and over by the authority of Christ and his apostles, as all know. Yet nothing condemns sin but the decalogue!

The spirit of the Mosaic law, every moral principle in it, is reiterated over and over in the gospel, with all the authority of the Son of God. Not a Christian duty can be named which is not taught in the New Testament. Not a single thing is forbidden by the Old Testament which it would be wrong for a Christian to do, which is not also forbidden in the New, in some form. Excepting the Sabbath, the other nine commandments are in the New Testament, either in the same words or in substance.

Then is the Old Testament to be thrown away? God forbid. It should be received as the inspired word of God, a mine of precious truth; but it must be studied in the light of the New Testament, and modified by it. Nothing should be required of Christians simply because it is found in the law of the Old Testament. To bind our consciences, it must be required by the New Testament. Here the seventh day fails entirely, for there is no requirement in all the New Testament to keep it; but its abrogation is plainly taught.

 

[Davy]

This is the reason God is much wiser than man!! God did not write the word "murder" but the word "kill." Does this mean that man can't kill animals for man's consumption for food?? Of course, not!!

You're playing the image of Satan who wants to change times and laws.

To God Be The Glory

And in Matthew 19:17-18, Jesus when quoting from Exodus 20:13 "Thou shalt not kill", Jesus properly used the word for "murder"...

Matt 19:17-18
17 And He said unto him, "Why callest thou Me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."

18 "He saith unto Him, Which?" Jesus said, "Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,"
KJV

 

[Episkopos]

No Law : Lawlessness

Under Grace : Given the Power to fulfill the Law

 

[JunChosen]

And in Matthew 19:17-18, Jesus when quoting from Exodus 20:13 "Thou shalt not kill", Jesus properly used the word for "murder"...

Indeed Jesus is now clarifying the word "kill" to mean: "thou shalt not murder," (take another man's life).

Just as Jesus also clarified the word "adultery" that "if any look at a woman lustfully, he already has committed adultery in his heart." (paraphrase).

To God Be The Glory

 

[Davy]

Indeed Jesus is now clarifying the word "kill" to mean: "thou shalt not murder," (take another man's life).

Just as Jesus also clarified the word "adultery" that "if any look at a woman lustfully, he already has committed adultery in his heart." (paraphrase).

To God Be The Glory

Yes, but the 'adultery' idea He spoke of was of being guilty per the 'heart', not the actual written law, because if one could claim legal adultery by the law every time a spouse just looked... at another woman or man, then legal divorce could happen, breaking up the marriage. Jesus didn't take it that far, but instead pointed to guilt of the 'heart', showing it was a sin, even though not prosecuted by the law without the act. Jesus was for... the institution of marriage, not like a radical communist that doesn't believe in the family concept.

 

[JunChosen]

Yes, but the 'adultery' idea He spoke of was of being guilty per the 'heart', not the actual written law, because if one could claim legal adultery by the law every time a spouse just looked... at another woman or man, then legal divorce could happen, breaking up the marriage. Jesus didn't take it that far, but instead pointed to guilt of the 'heart', showing it was a sin, even though not prosecuted by the law without the act. Jesus was for... the institution of marriage, not like a radical communist that doesn't believe in the family concept.

I would like to remind you that the Bible is a spiritual book and therefore need to be discerned spiritually.

Yourself have agreed that it is a sin to lust after a woman in his heart however; I believe you have not gotten the gist of the matter. Please read the verse again carefully for it is NOT a physical sin adultery but rather, spiritual.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Davy]

I would like to remind you that the Bible is a spiritual book and therefore need to be discerned spiritually.

That is a silly... response to what I said.

Your ignorance of what Jesus taught about the sin of adultery of the heart shows that you would do something stupid like... TRY and divorce your spouse just for looking at another!

And that shows your lack... of spiritual understanding in God's Word that you would even think that!

 

[Dan Clarkston]

"Christ has redeemed the born again from the CURSE OF THE LAW".

And then...., Jesus brought forth the "Law of Christ" under the NT

In the New Testament, many mentions of “the law” is actually referring to Law of Christ (aka the Law of Liberty) and is not talking about the old testament law. Christians are NOT called to keep or live under the old testament law, but we ARE called to live under the Law of Christ.

Ultimately this means we are called to abide In Christ which is living after the Spirit and not after the flesh, or to be spiritually minded and not carnally minded (see Romans 8). As we see in Romans 8, to be spiritually minded is life and peace but to be carnally minded is death which is separation from the Lord.

Galatians 6:2
Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

1 Corinthians 9:21
To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

James 2:12
So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

James 1:25
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
*Free as in no longer being a slave to sin, as in stop doing sinful things!

 

[Davy]

And then...., Jesus brought forth the "Law of Christ" under the NT

In the New Testament, many mentions of “the law” is actually referring to Law of Christ (aka the Law of Liberty) and is not talking about the old testament law. Christians are NOT called to keep or live under the old testament law, but we ARE called to live under the Law of Christ.

Ultimately this means we are called to abide In Christ which is living after the Spirit and not after the flesh, or to be spiritually minded and not carnally minded (see Romans 8). As we see in Romans 8, to be spiritually minded is life and peace but to be carnally minded is death which is separation from the Lord.

You might want to study more ... of your New Testament Scriptures, because it sounds like you missed what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Timothy 1, 1 Corinthians 6, and Galatians 5 about God's laws per CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE.

My admonition is for us to keep what the Scriptures say, NOT what men's doctrines say only pieced from Scripture that 'changes' the simplicity of God's Word as written...

1 Cor 6:9-10
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
KJV

Those who continue in those things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Paul made that simple. So if one claims to be a Christian, and still practices those things, then they put theirself in danger. And by practice I mean continually doing those things with no repentance in wanting to change and follow Christ.


1 Tim 1:8-11
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
KJV

What Apostle Paul said above reveals that Christ did NOT do away with many of God's laws. Murder is still a sin, so is stealing, lying, whoremongers, homosexuality, perjury, etc. And Paul includes all that as part of Christian Doctrine there. The idea of being in the Liberty of Jesus Christ is that the believer should be free... from doing those things, not partaking in those things.


Gal 5:16-25
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
KJV

What if we slip up at times and DON'T walk in The Spirit? Then God's law still exists for us to default to when we do that slip up. It's that simple. Walk by The Holy Spirit and we won't be found guilty of the sins of the flesh.

 

[JunChosen]

Your ignorance of what Jesus taught about the sin of adultery of the heart shows that you would do something stupid like... TRY and divorce your spouse just for looking at another!

Your interpretation of the verse is incorrect. It is NEVER a sin to look at another woman for her beauty, rather it is a sin to look at another woman lustfully, whether a man is single or married!!

To God Be The Glory