No Law : Under Grace

[Davy]

You are right and so important....further validated by the Lord's prayer....forgive us of our trespasses as we forgive our trespassers.....a daily prayer urging. Because He knew even the repented would also need future forgiveness.

Thank you Jesus!!!

Exactly!

But those who don't really listen to Jesus, but to men's doctrines instead, will come back with falsehoods that Jesus only gave the Luke 11 prayer to say for His Apostles only at His 1st coming, just to try and get around that Jesus included asking forgiveness of future sin in it.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

-
The law/commandments define transgression..

In other words, If there was no law or commandment that said....>"tho shalt not murder"< then if you murdered, there is nothing to define it as murder.

"where there is NO LAW.....there is NO SIN.. no Transgression"... = There is no LAW that defines that deed as a sin.

So, when we are unbelievers, the law and commandments continually define our carnality as sin.

This is the "curse of the Law".....as the law is what defines us all as .."all have sinned".

When we are born again, our "old man of sin" that was defined by the law, is crucified with Christ, and we are "made free from the law", having become ":dead to the Law".

This is explained as.. "Christ is the end of the Law, for righteousness, to everyone who believes"

"the born again are not under the law, but under Grace".

"Christ has redeemed the born again from the CURSE OF THE LAW".

Numbers 5 to me is the best towards showing the adulterous woman who brings forth ‘sin unto death’ and the Free woman who brings forth ‘seed (Christ)unto righteousness’, bearing children. My husband and I were talking about this the other day. How in the New Testament it talks about a woman who is saved through child bearing. To me she is that Free woman spoken of in Numbers 5 who bears children. She is Free from the curse. We are told of the Free woman which is above and is Free. Roman’s goes on to speak of these two women who one is an adulterous woman Paul saying (I speak to those who know the law), his besieging them “by the body of Christ you are free to bring forth Fruit unto God”, fear not, it’s God’s Will that you bear Fruit, to “bear children unto God”. …Paul often spoke as “my little children” “whom I have begotten through the gospel” … saying further “even though you have ten thousand instructors in Christ, you have not many fathers”.

My husband and I disagree on “under the law” …he says we were never under that old law. The evidence of my own life walk says otherwise as “that voice” was all around me. Even going to sit in church…I’m going to encounter an adoption into those old laws. Same as being adopted into pagan beliefs that I’m unaware of like how I celebrate Easter or Christmas or Halloween …I can’t say after sitting in churches I didn’t get adopted into under the laws. Even circumcision of that which is outward in the flesh, the circumcision made by men …a baby may not be aware but it’s most often there, a circumcision made by men which can’t be ignored. Where he said if any part of the law is done, then do all of it. Personally I think we all have adopted by “sin unto death” of the adulterous woman…having been made like unto “those who know the law” which leads unto the bondage of death. Yes, those Paul was speaking to. Point is, I don’t think we are exempt from ….needing to be made Free in Christ, and to be of the Free Woman no long called an adulterous woman, but of the Free Woman by the body of Christ, where we are made free -reconciled unto God to bear children unto God. Reconciliation to bear Fruit unto God. If we were never adopted into “those who know the law” where the wolves come into to devour and not spare the sheep…go sit in churches and say there is no presence of indoctrination into the reminiscences of the adulterous woman bringing forth sin unto death. Not bringing forth Fruit unto God but …that same dead works.

 

[GracePeace]

I think the confusion comes with the expression 'no law'. Many Christians also recoil in horror when it is suggested that we are obligated toq obey God's commandments, as if the commandments are either optional, or as some believe, annulled altogether. In order to justify their reluctance toward obedience, they condemn any obedience as legalism...an attempt to earn salvation. There is so much confusion and disagreement even on the meaning of the most basic of terms. Discussions on this often come to an inconclusive slow death.

I think they're trying to boast about Christ's grace, but they don't know how to do it properly.

 

[gpresdo]

Exactly!

But those who don't really listen to Jesus, but to men's doctrines instead, will come back with falsehoods that Jesus only gave the Luke 11 prayer to say for His Apostles only at His 1st coming, just to try and get around that Jesus included asking forgiveness of future sin in it.

We are facing increased ...new age religion...interpretations of the Bible...... typical of scripture's meaning....in the end times there will be great deceptions. we are there. Many more on the way. But we can combat them in our witness time by listing God's word. We are reminded that few...reads God's... word today....very few.

 

[Behold]

In order to justify their reluctance toward obedience, they condemn any obedience as legalism...

NT "obedience" is not trying to keep OT "moses law".

NT "obedience" is to Love as Jesus loved, and to allow God through Christ to live His life through the Believer.

= "Christ is the END OF THE LAW... FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS... to/for, everyone who Believes".

The Discipleship that follows Salvation, is not about keeping Moses's laws, and OT statues.

God is not looking for Moses.
He's looking for FAITH., as "without faith, its impossible to please God".

 

[Brakelite]

NT "obedience" is not trying to keep OT "moses law".

Agreed.

NT "obedience" is to Love as Jesus loved, and to allow God through Christ to live His life through the Believer.

Again, agree.

"Christ is the END OF THE LAW... FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS... to/for, everyone who Believes"

I would ask a question... That word 'end'. I think you need to reappraise it's meaning. The same word in the Greek is used here...
KJV Romans 6:21-22
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
You see in the above texts that 'end' isn't the abolition of the subject, but the final goal and ultimate conclusion. So in regards to Jesus being the ultimate conclusion and goal of the law, does not mean a literal abolition or cancelling of the law. If Paul was intending that to be the case, he would have used other words, such as
συντέλεια sunteleia
‭ completion, consummation, end,
as in Matthew 28:20.

The Discipleship that follows Salvation, is not about keeping Moses's laws, and OT statues.

Again, agreed.

God is not looking for Moses.
He's looking for FAITH., as "without faith, its impossible to please God".

So what does God intend for such faith to accomplish? Is it not that the believer should have such a faith as to be changed into the image of Christ? Tell me. Was Christ obedient to all of God's commandments? Not Moses... The Father's commandments. Consider this...
KJV Romans 7:14
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
In Romans 7 we are informed that something must die... Crucified... In order for us to live. Who precisely was nailed to the cross? Jesus. What was it that He was burdened with on that cross. The law? Or the sins and transgressions of that law that our carnal nature was accustomed to commit? What died on that cross? The law? Or our carnal nature... The "old man". See the following...
KJV Romans 7:4
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

There is nothing there about the law being crucified with Christ. It was US.

 

[Ritajanice]

Without God given Faith we wouldn’t/ couldn’t even know God in our spirit....that is where we know God in our spirit...not our human intellect....that is why we need to be Born Again in our spirit, then we are a spirit child of God....we are as one with God in Spirit when we become Born Again.

Saving faith is distinct from every works-righteous system because it isn’t the result of human effort. In the same way that repentance is granted by God (Acts 11:18; 2 Tim. 2:25), faith is also a supernatural gift of God. Ephesians 2:8–9 affirms this: “By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.”

Our response in salvation is faith, but even that is “not of [ourselves], it is the gift of God.” Faith is nothing that we do in our own power or by our own resources. In the first place, we do not have adequate power or resources. Moreover, God would not want us to rely on them even if we had them. Otherwise salvation would be in part by our own works, and we would have some ground to boast in ourselves. Paul’s emphasis in Ephesians 2:8 is that even faith does not come from us apart from God’s giving it. Human effort has nothing to do with it (cf.Romans 3:20; Galatians 2:16), and thus no one should boast, as if he contributed any part.

Spiritually dead, we were helpless until God intervened to quicken us: “Even when we were dead in our transgressions, [God] made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)” (Ephesians 2:5). Faith is an integral part of the gift His grace bestowed on us.

Scripture consistently teaches that faith is not conjured up by the human will but is a sovereignly granted gift of God. Jesus said, “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him” (John 6:44). And “No one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father” (John 6:65). Acts 3:16 speaks of “the faith which comes through Him.” Philippians 1:29 says, “To you it has been granted for Christ’s sake . . . to believe in Him.” And Peter wrote to fellow believers as “those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours” (2 Peter 1:1).

How do we know that faith is God’s gift? Left to ourselves, no one would ever believe: “There is none who understands, there is none who seeks for God” (Romans 3:11). “So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy” (Romans 9:16). God draws the sinner to Christ and gives the ability to believe. Without that divinely generated faith, one cannot understand and approach the Savior. “A natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised” (1 Corinthians 2:14). That is precisely why when Peter affirmed his faith in Christ as the Son of God, Jesus told him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven” (Matthew 16:17). Faith is graciously given to believers by God himself.

As a divine gift, faith is neither transient nor impotent. It has an abiding quality that guarantees that it will endure to the end. The familiar words of Habakkuk 2:4, “The righteous will live by his faith” (cf. Romans 1:17; Galatians 3:11; Hebrews 10:38), speak not of a momentary act of believing, but of a living, enduring trust in God. Hebrews 3:14 emphasizes the permanence of genuine faith. Its very durability is proof of its reality: “We have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end.” The faith God gives can never evaporate. And the work of salvation cannot ultimately be thwarted (cf. John 10:27–29). In Philippians 1:6 Paul wrote, “I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus” (cf. 1 Corinthians 1:8; Colossians 1:22–23).

 

[Davy]

We are facing increased ...new age religion...interpretations of the Bible...... typical of scripture's meaning....in the end times there will be great deceptions. we are there. Many more on the way. But we can combat them in our witness time by listing God's word. We are reminded that few...reads God's... word today....very few.

All the more reasons for 'showing' the actual Bible Scripture instead of just 'saying' it says this or that.

 

[Ritajanice]

God gave me a huge measure of faith when he made me Born Again...did I understand faith at that time, “ No” Only His Spirit can bring our spirit to that understanding...it’s mind blowing when we get heart revelation.

This is how it works imo, he gives us each a measure of faith, we have been Born Again of imperishable seed, that seed was planted into our heart/ spirit by Gods Living witness His Living Holy Spirit.....now, we either trust that seed or we trust “ SELF”...looking back as a Born Again i kept thinking in that old mindset for many, many years, it’s a very long story, so I won’t bore you with the details..

We get to know God as we walk in faith, we walk in faith and exercise that faith that we received...remember our spirit is Born Again not our own intellectual knowledge...

I have doubted God in the past, because my old mindset kept rearing it’s ugly head...Now...my faith is so strong in God and I know anything and I mean anything is possible with God.

He can heal cancer, he can heal a broken heart/ spirit, he healed my broken heart/ spirit ,it took years but he did it.

He can heal my AF,.it hasn’t stopped, but, I have not been blue lighted in 6 months to hospital, it’s been slow AF.i have the faith to believe he can heal my AF completely .In Jesus Name....Amen!...I hope this helps and encourages members, guests in understanding faith.

If you are Born Again your Faith will do nothing but grow....don’t expect it to be easy as faith is like a heart muscle it must be exercised...

Plus remember we will face many, many trials and tribulations along the way...it is far from easy.

Look how Jesus trusted his Father of course he was the Son Of God...it’s just incredible to think how he walked about the earth being led by his Father...Spirit God.

We too are led by the Father to do His will on earth..via His Spirit who made our spirit Born Again....we just need to get to that place of understanding.....remember God given faith once grown is mighty powerful and can move mountains...

2 Peter 3:18- But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen

 

[bro.tan]

-
The law/commandments define transgression..

In other words, If there was no law or commandment that said....>"tho shalt not murder"< then if you murdered, there is nothing to define it as murder.

"where there is NO LAW.....there is NO SIN.. no Transgression"... = There is no LAW that defines that deed as a sin.

So, when we are unbelievers, the law and commandments continually define our carnality as sin.

This is the "curse of the Law".....as the law is what defines us all as .."all have sinned".

When we are born again, our "old man of sin" that was defined by the law, is crucified with Christ, and we are "made free from the law", having become ":dead to the Law".

This is explained as.. "Christ is the end of the Law, for righteousness, to everyone who believes"

"the born again are not under the law, but under Grace".

"Christ has redeemed the born again from the CURSE OF THE LAW".

When the bible speaks of laws we no longer have to keep, it is speaking of the sacrificial laws and Priesthood laws. These laws were a school master pointing us to the fact that Jesus would be sacrificed for our sins. Since Jesus died we are no longer under a school master, (required to offer up bulls and goats for our sins).

Now we must believe (have faith) Jesus died for us (Hebrews 10:4,9-10) 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 9 then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

This doesn't mean we don't have to obey God's moral laws of conduct. That would be like a man getting paroled from prison and then ignoring the same laws that sent him to prison in the first place. Jesus only died once, so if we willingly break God's law, after accepting Jesus, our reward will be eternal damnation (Hebrews 10:26-27) 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Let us avoid this at all costs, seeking a better reward. Jesus will return real soon And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. (Revelation 22:12).

 

[Behold]

When the bible speaks of laws we no longer have to keep,

Listen..

Is there a Christian on the earth, who does not understand that they are to behave , as a lifestyle, that would not offend God?

So, you can call that "moral law", or you can call that "present your body, as a living sacrifice".

Nearly All Believers, know that wrong is wrong, and right isn't wrong.

The issue is........if a person is trying to go to heaven, by believing that... "I have to keep these laws, or i can't go to Heaven".

"I have to do these WORKS, or i can't go to heaven"...

See that one?
They are trying to save themselves by MORAL LAW, or MOSES's Law or by self effort....... and that denies that Jesus is their Savior, regarding their FAITH.

 

[Wynona]

What does grace look like? Is it a cloak that covers iniquity and sin so it cannot be seen? Or is grace the power of God granted to those who believe that they can overcome sin through receiving the righteousness of Christ?

:)

Titus 2:11-12

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;


Woohoo! Praise God for His Word!

 

[Behold]

I would ask a question... That word 'end'.

Christ is the "end of the law for righteousness".

So, the law requires righteousness. It demands it. And the unbeliever has none to offer, as "all have sinned, and there is none righteous, no not one".

So, that is the 2nd Part of the "curse of the law"..= its that the law demands what a SINNER can't provide.. .and that is a "curse" to be under that requirement., which is the "dominion of the Law".

The 1st part of the curse of the law, is .. "the law is the power of sin".. "the power of sin is the law".

What does that mean?
It means that the law empowers your flesh, your carnal mind... to want to sin more, the more you try to obey the law that says....>>"dont do that".
In fact, when a believer is "in the flesh", they are in their carnal mind, and they try to resist sin, and its gets worse, not better.
So, that wrong mind, literally causes your flesh to drive you to LUST to sin., and so, you have to get out of that mind and into the right mind that is to understand what it means to have become a "new creation in Christ".. "not under the Law, but UNDER GRACE".

So to be under the law... is a CURSE on a person, who is "Under The Law"...


REJOICE !! = , Christ, fulfilled the law for us, completely, then died on the Cross as our eternal Sacrifice for ALL our sin.

What did that accomplish for us?
It accomplished the fulfilling of the law and the payment for all our sins., and that removed the curse of the law from us, and forgave all our sin, and that allowed God to cause us (as Born again)... to become "made righteous" by receiving "The Gift of Righteousness".

Christ's sacrifice also gives us Eternal life.

Christ's sacrifice also gives us everlasting status as a Son/Daughter of God.

 

[Brakelite]

Christ is the "end of the law for righteousness".

So, the law requires righteousness. It demands it. And the unbeliever has none to offer, as "all have sinned, and there is none righteous, no not one".

Agreed.

So, that is the 2nd Part of the "curse of the law"..= its that the law demands what a SINNER can't provide.. .and that is a "curse" to be under that requirement., which is the "dominion of the Law".

The 1st part of the curse of the law, is .. "the law is the power of sin".. "the power of sin is the law".

What does that mean?
It means that the law empowers your flesh, your carnal mind... to want to sin more, the more you try to obey the law that says....>>"dont do that".
In fact, when a believer is "in the flesh", they are in their carnal mind, and they try to resist sin, and its gets worse, not better.
So, that wrong mind, literally causes your flesh to drive you to LUST to sin., and so, you have to get out of that mind and into the right mind that is to understand what it means to have become a "new creation in Christ".. "not under the Law, but UNDER GRACE".

So to be under the law... is a CURSE on a person, who is "Under The Law"...

KJV Galatians 3:10-13
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

The one cursed is the one who disobeys. If you disobey, it isn't the law's fault. It's yours. You sound like you don't want to take responsibility for your sin, but are blaming the law instead.

 

[GracePeace]

Agreed.

KJV Galatians 3:10-13
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

The one cursed is the one who disobeys. If you disobey, it isn't the law's fault. It's yours. You sound like you don't want to take responsibility for your sin, but are blaming the law instead.

Believing is the righteousness of God apart from the Law whereby we are gifted the blessing of Abraham, the Spirit, which is eternal life; a righteousness of my own would be by the Law, the knowledge of good and evil, which invariably leads (has since Adam) to the curse of death.

 

[Brakelite]

Believing is the righteousness of God

I respectfully disagree. Faith is the means to attain to the righteousness of Christ which comes to us as a gift... Both imputed and imparted. True faith is the means, not the end itself.

 

[GracePeace]

I respectfully disagree. Faith is the means to attain to the righteousness of Christ which comes to us as a gift... Both imputed and imparted. True faith is the means, not the end itself.

"How did you receive the Spirit? By hearing of faith or works of the Law?"--two ways of righteousness/eligibility for eternal life.

"Faith is counted as righteousness."

 

[PS95]

Christ is the "end of the law for righteousness".

So, the law requires righteousness. It demands it. And the unbeliever has none to offer, as "all have sinned, and there is none righteous, no not one".

So, that is the 2nd Part of the "curse of the law"..= its that the law demands what a SINNER can't provide.. .and that is a "curse" to be under that requirement., which is the "dominion of the Law".

The 1st part of the curse of the law, is .. "the law is the power of sin".. "the power of sin is the law".

What does that mean?
It means that the law empowers your flesh, your carnal mind... to want to sin more, the more you try to obey the law that says....>>"dont do that".
In fact, when a believer is "in the flesh", they are in their carnal mind, and they try to resist sin, and its gets worse, not better.
So, that wrong mind, literally causes your flesh to drive you to LUST to sin., and so, you have to get out of that mind and into the right mind that is to understand what it means to have become a "new creation in Christ".. "not under the Law, but UNDER GRACE".

So to be under the law... is a CURSE on a person, who is "Under The Law"...


REJOICE !! = , Christ, fulfilled the law for us, completely, then died on the Cross as our eternal Sacrifice for ALL our sin.

What did that accomplish for us?
It accomplished the fulfilling of the law and the payment for all our sins., and that removed the curse of the law from us, and forgave all our sin, and that allowed God to cause us (as Born again)... to become "made righteous" by receiving "The Gift of Righteousness".

Christ's sacrifice also gives us Eternal life.

Christ's sacrifice also gives us everlasting status as a Son/Daughter of God.

1 John 3:23
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
--Guard yourself from idols

Only one way >- walk in the Spirit! Hallelujah!! He provides!

 

[Brakelite]

"How did you receive the Spirit? By hearing of faith or works of the Law?"--two ways of righteousness/eligibility for eternal life.

"Faith is counted as righteousness."

Righteousness by faith, not righteousness is faith.

 

[GracePeace]

Righteousness by faith, not righteousness is faith.

Nope.

Romans 4
5However, to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6And David speaks likewise of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7“Blessed are they whose lawless acts are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8Blessed is the man
whose sin the Lord will never count against him.”b

The righteousness of faith is that you're forgiven because God is faithful and righteous to forgive our sins (1 Jn 1).

I acknowledge that that is the first step, and then we come to walking in faith, but that cannot in any way subvert the righteousness of faith defined as God forgiving.