Jesus Died for Judas

[Marymog]

Leviticus 17:14 For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off.

C'mon man get to your senses are you actually trying to defend canibalism and vampirism in public as a "Christian", there is no shame anymore?

Hey Daniel,

How do you fulfill John 6:54?

Curious Mary

 

[Daniel L.]

How do you fulfill John 6:54?

I have eaten up His Word and it fed my Spirit.

Ezekiel 3:1 Moreover he said unto me, Son of man, eat that thou findest; eat this roll, and go speak unto the house of Israel.
2 So I opened my mouth, and he caused me to eat that roll.
3 And he said unto me, Son of man, cause thy belly to eat, and fill thy bowels with this roll that I give thee. Then did I eat it; and it was in my mouth as honey for sweetness.
4 And he said unto me, Son of man, go, get thee unto the house of Israel, and speak with my words unto them.

Revelation 10:8 And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.
9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.
10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

 

[BarneyFife]

Your fun comes at expense of another, and insults are not "fun", nor "little fun". It is only because you are not the one getting insulted that you think it's "fun", because if it were you getting insulted, you wouldn't like it. Because he was insulted, I became insulted:

And I say it's none of your ill-informed business, tough new guy. Did you counsel with the one you believe was insulted? Did he solicit your representation? How do you know what I would like or not like? You presume an awful lot. If your attitude doesn't change, I perceive your experience here will not be satisfactory to you. Just my opinion.

Because of the sick, I am sick; Because of the hungry, I am hungry; Because of the thirsty, I am thirty.

Well, if you're sick, hungry and thirty, that's different.

It seems to me like you're the one who's here to quarrel over the opinions of those who may or may not be weaker in faith than you believe yourself to be (Romans 14:1).

In any case:

WELCOME, WELCOME!!!

 

[Daniel L.]

Did you counsel with the one you believe was insulted? Did he solicit your representation?

H

Sin against the image of the Eternal King is sin against the Eternal King who made the image. It is not "fun"

For he who insults the image and the things belonging to the Eternal King, has the sin reckoned as committed against Him in whose likeness the image was made.

 

[BarneyFife]

Sin against the image of the Eternal King is sin against the Eternal King who made the image. It is not "fun"

For he who insults the image and the things belonging to the Eternal King, has the sin reckoned as committed against Him in whose likeness the image was made.

I'll take that as a "no." You can't intimidate me with your hypocritical curses, tough new guy.

 

[Marymog]

I have eaten up His Word and it fed my Spirit.

Ezekiel 3:1 Moreover he said unto me, Son of man, eat that thou findest; eat this roll, and go speak unto the house of Israel.
2 So I opened my mouth, and he caused me to eat that roll.
3 And he said unto me, Son of man, cause thy belly to eat, and fill thy bowels with this roll that I give thee. Then did I eat it; and it was in my mouth as honey for sweetness.
4 And he said unto me, Son of man, go, get thee unto the house of Israel, and speak with my words unto them.

Revelation 10:8 And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.
9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.
10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

Oh goodness...

What man taught you that reading Scripture is the same as eating Scripture? I have heard this bizarre teaching before and have asked others who started this teaching, but no one can answer me. Also, you do know that those passages that you quoted have absolutely NOTHING to do with eating his body and drinking his blood...Right? It takes alot of twisting of Scripture to make that work....


So Daniel: Jesus TOLD you that you must eat his body and drink his blood and then at the Last Supper when Jesus SHOWED you how to accomplish this and then several years later Paul asked his fellow Christians a rhetorical question concerning the eating of Jesus body and blood. HOWEVER it appears that you have been taught to ignore what Jesus told you and showed you to do. So let's move on to Paul. How do you answer Paul's rhetorical question in 1 Corinthians 10:16?

Curious Mary

 

[Daniel L.]

reading Scripture is the same as eating Scripture?

The Word is Truth and Life: Reading The Word is the same as eating the Truth; Reading the Gospel is the same as eating the Life.
They are the food of the Spirit, those who feed theyr Spirit with Truth and Life, shall never die.

What man taught you

you have been taught

I have one Rabbi, and He is Messiah.

How do you answer Paul

Bring me a second witness or depart.

 

[Marymog]

The Word is Truth and Life: Reading The Word is the same as eating the Truth; Reading the Gospel is the same as eating the Life.
They are the food of the Spirit, those who feed theyr Spirit with Truth and Life, shall never die.

Oh goodness...No, reading the word is not the same as eating the Truth. How did Christians read the Gospel when it wasn't written until several years after He died? There was not Scripture to read kiddo.

 

[Marymog]

I have one Rabbi, and He is Messiah.

Oh, I see now Daniel. YOU read Scripture and when YOU decide you have properly interpreted into the Truth YOU believe that the Messiah has guided you to that truth....fascinating. Sooooo why is your truth different than other men's truth who also claim the Messiah is guiding them into the truth? Are you confused OR are those other men confused? Or is Jesus confused by giving each one of you a different truth?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

Bring me a second witness or depart.

got it....you are dodging the question and refusing to answer it because you know it destroys what you have taught yourself when it comes to how to eat His body and drink His blood. Well, the NT Christians could answer. You can't.

I can answer Paul's rhetorical question: Yes Paul. The cup we drink IS a participation in the blood of Christ. Yes Paul. The bread we eat IS a participation in the body of Christ. Because we believe what He said: This IS my body/blood!

Give us this day our daily bread (Matthew 6:11).....or as Daniel would change that passage to is, give me this day my daily reading of Scripture.

 

[Marymog]

I have eaten up His Word and it fed my Spirit.

Ezekiel 3:1 Moreover he said unto me, Son of man, eat that thou findest; eat this roll, and go speak unto the house of Israel.
2 So I opened my mouth, and he caused me to eat that roll.
3 And he said unto me, Son of man, cause thy belly to eat, and fill thy bowels with this roll that I give thee. Then did I eat it; and it was in my mouth as honey for sweetness.
4 And he said unto me, Son of man, go, get thee unto the house of Israel, and speak with my words unto them.

Revelation 10:8 And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.
9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.
10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

How have your men interpreted this: whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.

Curious Mary

 

[Daniel L.]

How did Christians read the Gospel when it wasn't written

Reading/Hearing/Seeing/Believing I said reading because it was what I did, since I wasnt there to see, but it's the same eating.

YOU read Scripture and when YOU decide you have properly interpreted into the Truth YOU believe that the Messiah has guided you to that truth.

Yes, It is my soul Mary, I think I'll decide for myself what interpretation I trust my soul with, wouldn't trust it to the interpretation of any other men.

interpreted this

Same as before, not confirmed. Bring me a second witness or depart.

 

[Marymog]

Yes, It is my soul Mary, I think I'll decide for myself what interpretation I trust my soul with, wouldn't trust it to the interpretation of any other men.

Lol...got it. You don't trust the interpretation of other men...well, except the man inside your head. You trust that man. You rule over you and you are watching over your soul and you will give account for what you decide is the truth. You submit to you. You take heed of what you teach yourself, a flock of one, of which the Holy Spirit has made YOU and overseer of. You feed you! Wait a minute! That is OPPOSITE of what Scripture teaches Which means you are practicing and teaching opposite of what Scripture teaches:

Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Does it concern you that you are preaching/teaching opposite of Scripture?

 

[Illuminator]

Reading/Hearing/Seeing/Believing I said reading because it was what I did, since I wasnt there to see, but it's the same eating.

Jesus said nothing about reading in John 6.

Yes, It is my soul Mary, I think I'll decide for myself what interpretation I trust my soul with, wouldn't trust it to the interpretation of any other men.

No, you argue from a Gnostic or Docetic viewpoint, and dodge questions.

Same as before, not confirmed. Bring me a second witness or depart.

But you cannot find any "second witnesses" in the first 1000+ years of Christianity who agree with your denials.

 

[Daniel L.]

Lol

I have One Master, whom I obey, and He is Messiah.

denials

-You are the ones denying the Word. He told you Himself it is Spirit and Life:

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

-It all links to Judas who betrayed Him doesn't it? You brought up the Eucharist because of Judas:

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Funny how you have nothing in the bible to support you, but only outside the Word do you find your support.

Were you hiding under a rock or something??
Go back and READ posts 16, 20, 23 & 38 - where I gave AMPLE Scriptural support for ythe Eucharist.

I folowed it up with historical evidence.

I don't deny "real Presence", Im feeding my spirit with His Spirit and His Truth, and you are feeding your flesh with bread and wine, which you wrongly call His flesh and His blood. I have showed you already, blood is not "real drink" neither is flesh "real food" in His eyes.

YOUR lack of faith in the words of Christ don't make Him "wrong".
It just makes YOU unfaithful . . .

Sacramental or not, a sin is a sin. Even if the wine you drink is a transmutation into His blood. The moment you say you drink His real carnal red blood, you trangress the Law. Same with the flesh, like your ancestors who carved for flesh in the desert and He gave them flesh until it came out of theyr nostrils, and they perish for reason of the plague.

Immm - I hate to have to be the one to break this to you but - we are NOT bound by the Mosiac Law. It is FULFILLED in Christ (Matt. 5:17). The Law was a SHADOW - Hthe REALITY belongs to Him (Col. 2:16-17).

So, I suggest you STUDY that Bible . . .

 

[Illuminator]

I don't deny "real Presence", Im feeding my spirit with His Spirit and His Truth, and you are feeding your flesh with bread and wine, which you wrongly call His flesh and His blood. I have showed you already, blood is not "real drink" neither is flesh "real food" in His eyes.

So Jesus is lying???
John 6:54, 56, 57, 58 – He uses an even more literal verb, translated as “trogo,” which means to gnaw or chew or crunch. He increases the literalness and drives his message home. Jesus will literally give us His flesh and blood to eat. The word “trogo” is only used two other times in the New Testament (in Matt. 24:38 and John 13:18) and it always means to literally gnaw or chew meat. While “phago” might also have a spiritual application, “trogo” is never used metaphorically in Greek. So Daniel L. cannot find one verse in Scripture where “trogo” is used symbolically, and yet this must be their argument if they are going to deny the Catholic understanding of Jesus’ words. Moreover, the Jews already knew Jesus was speaking literally even before Jesus used the word “trogo” when they said “How can this man give us His flesh to eat?” (John 6:52).

John 6:55 – to clarify further, Jesus says “For My Flesh is food indeed, and My Blood is drink indeed.” This phrase can only be understood as being responsive to those who do not believe that Jesus’ flesh is food indeed, and His blood is drink indeed. Further, Jesus uses the word which is translated as “sarx.” “Sarx” means flesh (not “soma” which means body). See, for example, John 1:13,14; 3:6; 8:15; 17:2; Matt. 16:17; 19:5; 24:22; 26:41; Mark 10:8; 13:20; 14:38; and Luke 3:6; 24:39 which provides other examples in Scripture where “sarx” means flesh. It is always literal.

John 6:55 – further, the phrases “real” food and “real” drink use the word “alethes.” “Alethes” means “really” or “truly,” and would only be used if there were doubts concerning the reality of Jesus’ flesh and blood as being food and drink. Thus, Jesus is emphasizing the miracle of His body and blood being actual food and drink.

John 6:60 – as are many anti-Catholics today, Jesus’ disciples are scandalized by these words. They even ask, “Who can ‘listen’ to it (much less understand it)?” To the unillumined mind, it seems grotesque.

John 6:61-63 – Jesus acknowledges their disgust. Jesus’ use of the phrase “the spirit gives life” means the disciples need supernatural faith, not logic, to understand His words.

Sacramental or not, a sin is a sin. Even if the wine you drink is a transmutation into His blood. The moment you say you drink His real carnal red blood, you trangress the Law. Same with the flesh, like your ancestors who carved for flesh in the desert and He gave them flesh until it came out of theyr nostrils, and they perish for reason of the plague.

Where did you get the term "transmutation? Oh, I forgot. You don't answer questions. It is impossible to transgress what Jesus fulfilled. God gave the Jews manna so they wouldn't starve to death, and you say they perished. Your posts get sicker each time.

Exodus 12:14,17,24; cf. 24:8 – we see that the feast of the paschal lamb is a perpetual ordinance. It lasts forever. But it had not yet been fulfilled.

Exodus 29:38-39 – God commands the Israelites to “offer” (poieseis) the lambs upon the altar. The word “offer” is the same verb Jesus would use to institute the Eucharistic offering of Himself.

Lev. 19:22 – the priests of the old covenant would make atonement for sins with the guilt offering of an animal which had to be consumed. Jesus, the High Priest of the New Covenant, has atoned for our sins by His one sacrifice, and He also must be consumed.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Matthew's account has some more details;

"27 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you, 28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins" (chapter 26)

It is very clear from this, that Judas is also included in the "many" for whom Jesus died. This is also admitted to by John Calvin, where commenting on the same words in Mark's Gospel (14:24), says;

"Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race; for he contrasts many with one; as if he had said, that he will not be the Redeemer of one man only, but will die in order to deliver many from the condemnation of the curse."
It is clear from Calvin’s comments on this verse, that Judas is included in the word “many”.

How did Judas not commit the "unforgivable sin"? He did not just betray his Master for the mere price of a slave, he had made use of holy spirit and expelled demons and cured the sick, in Jesus' name.

Matthew 10:1, 5-8...
"Jesus summoned His twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every sickness. . . . .These twelve Jesus sent out after instructing them, saying, “Do not go on a road to Gentiles, and do not enter a city of Samaritans; 6 but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’ 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those with leprosy, cast out demons. Freely you received, freely give."

How can he have done that and seen and experienced the operation of God's spirit at his own hand and yet betray the one he knew was the son of God?
Near Passover 32 C.E., Judas, with the other apostles, was given the above instructions. Shortly after Judas’ return, and less than a year after he had been made an apostle, he was publicly denounced by Christ, though not by name. Some disciples left Jesus, being shocked over his teachings, but Peter said that the 12 would stick with Christ. In response Jesus acknowledged that he had chosen the 12 but said: “One of you is a slanderer [Gr., di·aʹbo·los, meaning “devil”].” The account explains that the one who already was a slanderer was Judas, who “was going to betray him, although one of the twelve.” (John 6:66-71)

In connection with this incident John says: “But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning. . . .who it was who would betray Him.” (John 6:64)
From Hebrew Scripture prophecies Christ knew that he would be betrayed by a close associate. (Psalm 41:9; 109:8; John 13:18-19) God also, by use of his foreknowledge, had seen that such a one would turn traitor, but it is inconsistent with God’s qualities and past dealings to think that Judas had to fail, as if he were predestined to do so. His actions were by his own choice. So, at the beginning of his apostleship Judas was faithful to God and to Jesus. Thus John must have meant that “from the beginning” of when Judas started to allow greed to overtake him, and he started to give in to his sinful inclinations, and Jesus recognized it. (John 2:24-25)

Judas must have known he was the “slanderer” Jesus mentioned, but he continued to travel with Jesus and the faithful apostles, acting the part and apparently he made no changes in his behavior. What he was foretold to do...he did in full knowledge....and it was pre-meditated. There is no excuse nor any forgiveness, and Judas knew it. He ended his life because he knew that there was no coming back from what he had done.

In Matthew 26:24 Jesus does not give Judas any hope of forgiveness....
"The Son of Man is going away just as it is written about Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.”

Judas was never forgiven and never will be. He is in "gehenna".....

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Judas was never forgiven and never will be. He is in "gehenna".....

I never said in the OP that Judas is in heaven. I said that Jesus died for him, as He did for the entire human race!

 

[Aunty Jane]

I never said in the OP that Judas is in heaven. I said that Jesus died for him, as He did for the entire human race!

I never said that Judas was in heaven either.....I said that he is in Gehenna.....a place that symbolised eternal death.

Jesus sacrificed his life for all mankind...but not all will qualify to have the merits of his sacrifice applied. We have to do our part as well. If we are found not “doing the will of the Father” as Jesus instructed, then those described in Matthew 7:21-23 will be us.