what do you think that Jesus means in John 8:24? "I said therefore to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am (ἐγώ εἰμι), you will die in your sins.”
Jesus Died for Judas
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what do you think that Jesus means in John 8:24? "I said therefore to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am (ἐγώ εἰμι), you will die in your sins.”
Is is not Mosaic law, it is True Law, you don't want anyone drinking your physical red blood, do you? So you trangress the True Law when you do it to another:
Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
I believe every word, you don't believe "they are Spirit, and they are Life":
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Yes, He gave us His Spirit and His Life, the food of the Spirit. You drink wine, you will thirst again, but if you drink Life you will never thirst again.
Jesus didn't spoke Greek.
This proves my case, because Life is drink indeed for the Spirit, but carnal blood is not drink indeed, neither for flesh nor spirit, nor animal, nor human. So unless you can refute these, you should repent:
-Physical carnal red blood is not "drink indeed":
Deuteronomy 12:23 Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood is the life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh.
-Physical carnal flesh is not "food indeed":
Genesis 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Well, I noticed the word "literal" is not in the text, so it is just you guys adding to the Word.
This is what happens when you provoke Him, and carve for flesh:
Numbers 11:18 And say thou unto the people, Sanctify yourselves against to morrow, and ye shall eat flesh: for ye have wept in the ears of the Lord, saying, Who shall give us flesh to eat? for it was well with us in Egypt: therefore the Lord will give you flesh, and ye shall eat.
19 Ye shall not eat one day, nor two days, nor five days, neither ten days, nor twenty days;
20 But even a whole month, until it come out at your nostrils, and it be loathsome unto you: because that ye have despised the Lord which is among you, and have wept before him, saying, Why came we forth out of Egypt?
33 And while the flesh was yet between their teeth, ere it was chewed, the wrath of the Lord was kindled against the people, and the Lord smote the people with a very great plague.
34 And he called the name of that place Kibrothhattaavah: because there they buried the people that lusted.
bbyrd009
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What i dont quite get is, if you want literal, Jesus first plainly identified bread and new wine as His body and blood?
John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
So my question to them is this: How does physical carnal flesh/ "bread" comes down from heaven?
You see how it was His Spirit that came down from heaven and became flesh.
So my question to them is this: How does physical carnal flesh/ "bread" comes down from heaven?
You see how it was His Spirit that came down from heaven and became flesh.
Illuminator
Well-Known Member
The unbelieving Jews asked Jesus a similar question; He answered them, and they walked away. John 6:66
You are confusing the Incarnation with consecrated bread and wine. God has the power to become flesh, He has the power to multiply food and feed 5000 people, and He has the power to multiply His Body and Blood in the form of Bread and Wine for the life of the world. Your version of Jesus is weak and impotent because you stubbornly insist He is powerless to do that. You flatly deny the very verse you quote.
The Eucharistic Sacrifice in the upper room is one and the same Sacrifice on the Cross. If and when you every come to grips with this Truth, a light will go on.
Illuminator
Well-Known Member
Jesus presents Himself to the Father on our behalf in the form of Bread and Wine, not symbols. Symbols don't give life.
Rev. 1 to 22 – Jesus is described as the “Lamb” 28 times in the book of Revelation. This is because Jesus emphasizes His sacrifice in heaven and in His Holy Catholic Church.
Rev. 1:13 – Jesus is clothed in heaven with a long robe and golden girdle like the Old Testament priests who offered animal sacrifices. See Exodus 28:4.
Rev. 2:17 – the spiritual manna, our Lord’s glorious body and blood, is emphasized in the heavenly feast.
Rev. 3:20 – as Priest and Paschal Lamb, our Lord shares the Eucharistic meal with us to seal His New Covenant. Through the covenant of his body and blood, we are restored to the Father and become partakers of the divine nature.
Rev. 5:6 – this verse tells us that Jesus in His glory still looks like a lamb who was slain. Also, Jesus is “standing” as though a Lamb who was slain. Lambs that are slain lie down. This odd depiction shows Jesus stands at the Altar as our eternal priest in forever offering Himself to the Father for our salvation.
Rev. 7:14 – the blood of the Lamb is eternally offered in heaven with the washing of the robes to make them white.
not "symbols"
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
I would say, Jesus died for Peter.
No one ever dares to go against the tide for fear of being discriminated against.
Well these last couple years I been called everything from a white supremist, nazi, tin foil hat conspiracy theorist, trump supporting, Maga maniac.
So names don't bother me.
And these last two years we've been propagandised and lied to and gaslighted, to the point where no one really knows which way is up, so they just follow the crowd.
I don't follow any crowds. I think for myself. I investigate. I look for facts and evidence.
Fact # 1. Jesus called Peter, Satan.
Fact #2. Satan put some thoughts in Judas' head.
Fact #3. Peter cared about the things of this world.
Fact #4. Judas turned Jesus in for 30 pieces of silver.
Did Judas have a choice? Yes he did.
Did he believe that Jesus would be taken away quietly? Yes he did.
When he found out that Jesus would be crucified, he threw away the silver and hung himself.
What does it profit a man if he should gain the world and lose his own soul.
Then in Acts, Peter is the first to accuse Judas of being the deceiver.. I call this projection.
And frankly, in the world we are living in today. And the things that are happening under our very noses.
The things that have happened in the past. The bloodshed spilt in the name of God by the very church in which the founder is considered Peter himself.
Satan was coming for Peter.
Jesus told him, he was going to be sifted like wheat.
He would need Jesus' prayers.
Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.
Judas paid a price by taking his own life. Judas had been deceived. And yet was confederate with Peter.
Peter carried on to become the Heirarchy of the new religion.
Babylon has fallen.
Sorry if this offends some people.
I'm just tired of living with all the lies and deceptions.
Remember who canonized the NT.
History goes to the victor.
Hugs
No one ever dares to go against the tide for fear of being discriminated against.
Well these last couple years I been called everything from a white supremist, nazi, tin foil hat conspiracy theorist, trump supporting, Maga maniac.
So names don't bother me.
And these last two years we've been propagandised and lied to and gaslighted, to the point where no one really knows which way is up, so they just follow the crowd.
I don't follow any crowds. I think for myself. I investigate. I look for facts and evidence.
Fact # 1. Jesus called Peter, Satan.
Fact #2. Satan put some thoughts in Judas' head.
Fact #3. Peter cared about the things of this world.
Fact #4. Judas turned Jesus in for 30 pieces of silver.
Did Judas have a choice? Yes he did.
Did he believe that Jesus would be taken away quietly? Yes he did.
When he found out that Jesus would be crucified, he threw away the silver and hung himself.
What does it profit a man if he should gain the world and lose his own soul.
Then in Acts, Peter is the first to accuse Judas of being the deceiver.. I call this projection.
And frankly, in the world we are living in today. And the things that are happening under our very noses.
The things that have happened in the past. The bloodshed spilt in the name of God by the very church in which the founder is considered Peter himself.
Satan was coming for Peter.
Jesus told him, he was going to be sifted like wheat.
He would need Jesus' prayers.
Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.
Judas paid a price by taking his own life. Judas had been deceived. And yet was confederate with Peter.
Peter carried on to become the Heirarchy of the new religion.
Babylon has fallen.
Sorry if this offends some people.
I'm just tired of living with all the lies and deceptions.
Remember who canonized the NT.
History goes to the victor.
Hugs
The Lord's Supper is not the real flesh body and real blood of Jesus Christ, that enters us when we take it. Nor does it change into this. This ia an absurd, unbiblical teaching!
Jesus called Peter "Σατανᾶς", which is literally in English, "advarsary, opponent". Jesus was not saying that Peter was The Devil, but his oppositon to Jesus going to the cross to die, for which He came, was against "the things of God"!
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
Can I get a witness?!!
Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Mar 8:33 But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.
Luk 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
JESUS died for the sins of the world . ALL who do believe shall be saved .
Jesus himself once said this too , BETTER were it for that man , JUDAS , had he NEVER EVEN BEEN BORN .
JESUS said i kept all , BUT the SON OF PERDITON . HE called JUDAS the SON of Perdition . SO dont expect to see
judas in glory land . WE must TRULY beleive IN JESUS to be saved .
HE who has the SON has life but HE who has not the SON has not life .
HE has not believed the testimony of GOD . He has called God a liar .
WE really should read all of john . THEY all pointed to JESUS as the only means for salvation
and that if one rejected HIM , it was damnation .
Jesus himself once said this too , BETTER were it for that man , JUDAS , had he NEVER EVEN BEEN BORN .
JESUS said i kept all , BUT the SON OF PERDITON . HE called JUDAS the SON of Perdition . SO dont expect to see
judas in glory land . WE must TRULY beleive IN JESUS to be saved .
HE who has the SON has life but HE who has not the SON has not life .
HE has not believed the testimony of GOD . He has called God a liar .
WE really should read all of john . THEY all pointed to JESUS as the only means for salvation
and that if one rejected HIM , it was damnation .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Just dont expect to see judas in glory land .
Jesus DID die for the sins of the whole world . But those who reject HIM , will be damned .
Better were it for that man , JESUS said , that HE had NEVER EVEN BEEN BORN .
JESUS also called him the son of perditon while praying to the Father
Let us read our bibles only more and more . Before too long we gonna have some even saying
Satan gonna be in glory land . There is a lake that burns with fire and it awaits all who rejected Christ .
Thus let us preach JESUS as the only means whereby one may be saved , TELL them souls in this world
REPENT and BELIEVE IN CHRIST . That ye may be saved .
Illuminator
Well-Known Member
It didn't become an absurd unbiblical teaching until Calvin disagreed with Luther. Within 65 years after the Protestant Revolt, there were 200 interpretations of "this is my body". Why did it take 1000+ years for some men to discover this alleged absurd, unbiblical teaching??? God is not the author of such chaos.
Agreed. Jesus didn't scold Peter for his teaching, but for his lack of understanding. It's an overused verse by the anti-authority club in a vain unbiblical attempt to squash Peter's authority.
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Jesus called judas the SON of perditon . Said it would have been better had that man Never been born .
I have seen true christains suffer worse in this life than judas who simply took his own life .
Dont expect to see judas in glory land . We must stick to the original life saving gospel .
Before too long we probably even gonna have folks saying that even satan will one day be in glory land .
NOPE . ONLY those who faith was in JESUS . Paul knew how serious this was .
So let me leave us with His words . THEREFORE KNOWING THE TERROR OF THE LORD WE PERSAUDE MEN .
REPENT YE AND BELIEVE the GOSPEL .
Be encouraged ziggy .
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
Jhn 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
not being argumentative friend, but where did Jesus say Judas' name? I don't see it.
Hugs
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
That was judas he was speaking about .
So you have no answer, the Jews walked away because he said no man comes to Him unless it is given to him by the Father.
No blood offering, of beast or bird, or man, can take away sin, for how can the conscience be purged from sin by the shedding of innocent blood ? Nay, it will increase the condemnation.
The priests indeed receive such offering as reconciliation of the worshippers for the trespasses against the law of Moses, but for sins agains the Law of God there can be no remission, save by repentance and amendment.
1 Samuel 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
-Blood Sacrifice is leaven from the pharisees:
Matthew 16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
Ezekiel 5:6 And she hath changed my judgments into wickedness more than the nations, and my statutes more than the countries that are round about her: for they have refused my judgments and my statutes, they have not walked in them.
-Corruption of the covenant of Levi:
Malachi 2:8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.
-Blood Sacrifice is not what our Father in Heaven wants:
Psalms 51:16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
Isaiah 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
-Blood Sacrifice was not commanded by our Father:
Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
-Blood sacrifice is "of fools" and evil:
Ecclesiastes 5:1 Keep thy foot when thou goest to the house of God, and be more ready to hear, than to give the sacrifice of fools: for they consider not that they do evil.
No blood offering, of beast or bird, or man, can take away sin, for how can the conscience be purged from sin by the shedding of innocent blood ? Nay, it will increase the condemnation.
The priests indeed receive such offering as reconciliation of the worshippers for the trespasses against the law of Moses, but for sins agains the Law of God there can be no remission, save by repentance and amendment.
1 Samuel 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
-Blood Sacrifice is leaven from the pharisees:
Matthew 16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
Ezekiel 5:6 And she hath changed my judgments into wickedness more than the nations, and my statutes more than the countries that are round about her: for they have refused my judgments and my statutes, they have not walked in them.
-Corruption of the covenant of Levi:
Malachi 2:8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.
-Blood Sacrifice is not what our Father in Heaven wants:
Psalms 51:16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
Isaiah 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
-Blood Sacrifice was not commanded by our Father:
Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
-Blood sacrifice is "of fools" and evil:
Ecclesiastes 5:1 Keep thy foot when thou goest to the house of God, and be more ready to hear, than to give the sacrifice of fools: for they consider not that they do evil.
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