bbyrd009
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Jesus Died for Judas
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Ziggy
Well-Known Member
He sure did make a good scapegoat. I'll give you that.
But Judas didn't betray him. Judas did what was needed to be done in order for the prophecies to be fulfilled.
Judas never denied Christ.
Which one did the will of his father?
Jhn 18:3 Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons.
Jhn 18:4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
Jhn 18:10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.
Jhn 18:11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?
Luk 12:9 But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.
1Jo 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Jhn 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
Jhn 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
1Pe 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
1Pe 2:14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
1Pe 2:17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.
Luk 12:9 But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.
Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel,
I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
Act 5:12 And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch.
Act 5:13 And of the rest durst no man join himself to them: but the people magnified them.
Act 5:14 And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.)
Act 5:15 Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
Sorry @amigo de christo
I bow to no man.
Jesus Christ is my King. To give allegience to any other is TREASON.
Hugs
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
When you take scripture in context, you often see a different slant on a single verse....
John 8:15-24....
“Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.” So the Pharisees said to him, “You are bearing witness about yourself; your testimony is not true.” Jesus answered, “Even if I do bear witness about myself, my testimony is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going, but you do not know where I come from or where I am going. 15 You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one. 16 Yet even if I do judge, my judgment is true, for it is not I alone who judge, but I and the Father who sent me. 17 In your Law it is written that the testimony of two people is true. 18 I am the one who bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me.” They said to him therefore, “Where is your Father?” Jesus answered, “You know neither me nor my Father. If you knew me, you would know my Father also.” These words he spoke in the treasury, as he taught in the temple; but no one arrested him, because his hour had not yet come. So he said to them again, “I am going away, and you will seek me, and you will die in your sin. Where I am going, you cannot come.” So the Jews said, “Will he kill himself, since he says, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come’?” He said to them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.” (ESV)
What do you see in that passage that indicates that Jesus is claiming to be God? He never said “I AM” he said “unless you believe that I am he”....meaning the Messiah, they would die in their sins. Jesus said "egō eimi" (I am) many times in the scriptures without once claiming to be God. Was every other person in the Bible who uttered the words "I am" claiming to be God as well?
Whose testimony did Jesus refer to there? The testimony of two witnesses.....himself and his Father...two separate entities. Did either one of them ever confess that there was equality between them, or that the holy spirit was ever called "God"?
Have you ever looked up Exodus 3:14-15 in the Jewish Tanakh?
"God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"
And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation."
"The Lord God" there in the Hebrew text is "יְהֹוָ֞ה" (Yahweh)
https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9864
According to these verses God's name is not "I AM" but "I Will Be What I will Be"....so it is not a statement of his existence because Israel already knew who their God was....this was a statement of Yahweh's intentions towards them....what he would "BE or BECOME" in order to bring about his purpose in connection with them. Exodus 3:14-15 therefore has no connection whatsoever with John 8:58. This is a suggestion insinuated by trinitarians but it has no support from the scriptures as a whole. No Jew would ever have considered Jesus as God incarnate....that would have been blasphemy.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Actually if we acknowledge that in the Bible names had meanings that were often descriptive titles. "Satan the devil" is not a name but a descriptive title given to the rebel who was both a slanderer and an adversary. We do not know satan's actual name because God has never allowed it to be revealed. In fact there are only two angels in the whole Bible whose names we were given.....Michael and Gabriel.
The word "satanas" in these scriptures just means "an adversary"....not that Jesus was calling Peter "satan" as in God's adversary in Eden, but as one who was putting a stumbling block before him by negating the fact that he had to die. Jesus did not need that kind of negativity when he was facing his execution.
Reading it in context...
Matthew 16:21-23
"From that time forward, Jesus began explaining to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes and be killed, and on the third day be raised up. 22 At this Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying: “Be kind to yourself, Lord; you will not have this happen to you at all.” 23 But turning his back, he said to Peter: “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me, because you think, not God’s thoughts, but those of men.”
Word studies are a really good way to understand scripture more deeply. English is not adequate in many verses to convey the full meaning of what is written and understood in another language.
Matthew 26:24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.
Luke 22:22 And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!
John 13:11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.
John 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
sounds the same to me @Aunty Jane
I don't see a conflict between what I posted and what you posted.
Peter is the adversary.
And Satan's name isn't mentioned in Genesis. He is called the serpent.
The first time Satan's name is mentioned is in:
1Ch 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
Mat 19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Mat 19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
Mat 19:30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.
Mat 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
Mat 10:3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
Mat 10:4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
many that are first:
Mar 5:6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
Mar 5:7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
Mar 5:8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.
Mar 5:9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.
Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Job 12:16 With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his.
upon this rock I will build my church
Deu 32:31 For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges.
Deu 32:32 For their vine is of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes are grapes of gall, their clusters are bitter:
Deu 32:33 Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps.
Deu 32:34 Is not this laid up in store with me, and sealed up among my treasures?
Deu 32:35 To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.
Deu 32:36 For the LORD shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that their power is gone, and there is none shut up, or left.
Deu 32:37 And he shall say, Where are their gods, their rock in whom they trusted,
Deu 32:38 Which did eat the fat of their sacrifices, and drank the wine of their drink offerings? let them rise up and help you, and be your protection.
1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
No matter how you look at it...
God has a plan and no one is going to thwart it.
It don't matter if Judas was decieved and it don't matter if Peter was the deceiver. Or vice versa.
The plan stands and will do all to God's purpose.
I'm just pointing out my observations.
And this is my conclusion:
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.
Hugs
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
I have no argument with that.
The Lord knows exactly who is adversary is.
And who would betray him.
Hugs
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
But Peter was not an "adversary" in a satanic way...he was simply trying in a purely human way to avoid the thought of what Jesus was telling them. He did not want to entertain the thought of Jesus dying an awful death and leaving them.
After Jesus' arrest, Peter denied him three times, as Jesus said he would, but he wept bitterly after the fact, feeling worthless since he had promised his Lord that he would follow him into death....but fear of man overtook him. How did Jesus show Peter that he was forgiven?
Following his resurrection, Jesus had a conversation with Peter that dispelled any doubts about Peter’s having been forgiven. Jesus uttered no harsh words of reproof, no condemnation. Instead, he asked Peter: “Do you love me?” Peter answered: “Yes, Lord, you know I have affection for you.” Jesus responded: “Feed my lambs.” Jesus repeated the question a second time, and Peter gave the same answer, perhaps more emphatically. Jesus said: “Shepherd my little sheep.” Then Jesus asked the same basic question a third time: “Do you have affection for me?” Now “Peter became grieved” and said: “Lord, you know all things; you are aware that I have affection for you.” Jesus answered: “Feed my little sheep.” (John 21:15-17)
Jesus was commissioning Peter to help care for a most precious possession—Jesus’ dear sheeplike followers. (John 10:14-15) Peter must surely have been relieved to know that he was still trustworthy in Jesus’ eyes!
Ah, now I understand where you are coming from....do you think that Peter was the Rock? He wasn't and never claimed to be...Jesus was the Rock ("petra" meaning a rock mass) upon which his church was built. Peter (whose was named "petros" meaning a small piece of rock) never became head of the church because there was no head apart from Jesus. Peter was one of the 12 and retained his position faithfully until his death. None of the apostles are placed above the others....all are said to form the foundations of God's Kingdom. (Revelation 21:14)
Absolutely correct! But understanding what God's Kingdom is allows us to make a bit more sense of things.
What do you think God's Kingdom is and what does the Lord's Prayer mean in relation to it?
How is the coming of the kingdom linked to God's will being "done on earth as it is in heaven"?
I think it does matter if you are accusing the wrong man. Judas was called by Jesus "the son of destruction". He was guilty of sinning against the holy spirit and will never see life again....he knew that when he killed himself.
Peter OTOH remained a faithful apostle for the rest of his life, and probably suffered a martyrs death.
I agree with much of what you said there regarding Roman Catholicism....can I ask if you were formerly a Catholic? You certainly have a good handle on what the Catholic church has achieved for her 'god' over the centuries.....complete alienation from God....nothing close to what Jesus taught.
And nothing whatever to do with Peter. He was never the head of the church, regardless of what they claim about him.I really like the fact that you can think outside the box....its a prison.
what Jesus says here in verse 24, is clarified in verse 58, "πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί", "before Abraham existed I AM". Abraham lived some thousands of years before Jesus Spoke these words. Here is contrast in the Greek is important. "γενέσθαι", second aorist middle, as to Abraham's "entering the world"; and "εἰμί", in the present, denoting the "timeless existing" of Jesus. The Jews fully understood that Jesus here claimed to be the Great I AM of Exodus 3, because they wanted to stone Him to death. Otherwise WHY would they do this? In verse 24 the Greek is the same as 58, "ἐγὼ εἰμί", there is no "HE" in the Greek text.
As for the Hebrew in Exodus 3:14, "Eheyeh asher Eheyeh". There are Jewish websites that translate this, "And God said unto Moses: 'I AM THAT I AM'; and He said: 'Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel: I AM hath sent me unto you" (https://mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0203.htm); and "And G-d said unto Moses: 'I AM THAT I AM'; and He said: 'Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel: I AM hath sent me unto you" (Shemot (Exodus): Chapter 3). about 100 years before Jesus was born from Mary, the Jews completed their Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament known as the Septuagint (LXX) , for Exodus 3:14, they used, "Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν", which literally has the meaning, "I am He Who Exists", or "I am the Eternal One". As the Jews in Jesus' time would have used this translation, they would have known what Jesus meant in John 8:24, and 58. For the reading that you suggest, "I will be", we should expect, "εσομαι", which is the future of "εἰμί". Note that the Person Who appeared to Moses in the Burning Bush, indetified Himself at the start (verse 2), as "מַלְאַךְ יְהוָה", translated as "The Angel of Yahweh", or, "The Messenger of Yahweh", One Who is sent on a Mission. However, This "Angel", further identifies Himself as, "Yhaweh", in verse 4, and "Elohim", in verse 6, and so on. This "מַלְאַךְ יְהוָה" is DISTINCT from Yahweh, as He Comes FROM Yahweh, but is Himself also Yahweh!
In Revelation 1:17, Jesus Christ tells the Apostle John, "ὁ πρῶτος καὶ ὁ ἔσχατος", "I AM THE First and THE Last", which is the same as Exodus 3:14, as found in the LXX, "the Eternal One". The Jews translate Isaiah 44:6, "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God" (Yeshayahu (Isaiah): Chapter 44). How can Jesus say this, as He also does in Reveleation 2:8, and 22:13, if He is not Himself YAHWEH?
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
God's Kingdom is his authority. It is what everything is manifested from.
Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
God's Kingdom is his sovereignty over all creation.
2nd question:
This one is complicated. And yet not.
Jesus tells us what the Kingdom of God is like. It's not a location. It's the rules.
The kingdom of God is likened to.... pick any ..
Mar 4:30 And he said, Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom of God? or with what comparison shall we compare it?
How is the kingdom linked with being done on earth as it is in heaven?
The rules have to be the same. Just weights, justice and mercy, honesty... all the good fruits listed in Galations 5.
It's a way of life. It's living the life God himself lives and intended for us to live.
My Mom was a catholic. She married my Dad who was a protestant. The church didn't look too kindly on that and had her excommunicated.
But she still sent my brothers and I when we were little. I made my first communion and just left after that.
I didn't formally have a church until I was baptised in a southern baptist church. Filled with hell and damnation.
That was when I was 17, so some 40 years ago.
I only attended for about a year. I did some correspondance courses through the Church of God. They were Sabbath keepers. I only attended one service because their hall was too far away for me to travel every week.
I checked out a couple others. An evangelical church, a pentecostal church. I just never felt comfortable being around a lot of people, so I just stopped attending any churches.
I do my own studying. I go where the Lord leads me. Where I end up I never know till I get there lol.
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
Isa 1:19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
Isa 1:20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
It's that "Let us reason together" part I really like.
And I'm willing to go wherever he sends my mind thinking.
And it's not just about thinking, it's about applying what you learn in your daily life.
And there's a lot to learn.
I pick on the Apostles a lot. I had a pow wow a year or so ago with Paul. Stirred up a lot of controversy. But that's what I wanted.
I wanted to be challenged to look deeper and really find out what made this guy tick.
Here's a guy, totally fits the shoe of the antichrist. Killed a lot of people, persecuted the church...
And I ended up putting myself in his shoes and walking through his life with him.
He went through a lot. And I came to the conclusion that I hope someday I can be as steadfast and faithful under such persocution as he had come under. He did run the race. He did keep the faith.
And what an intereting time for him to be alive.
Now Peter, I've always had a problem with Peter. I don't find him all that childlike and innocent.
He feels sneaky to me. More sneaky than Judas. Judas didn't talk much and Peter talked too much.
I'm sure in time I'll find myself walking in his shoes and walking his life with him.
Frankly, they both make me uncomfortable.
Not the words they preach, because as long as I can find it in the OT which matches with the NT I'm good with it.
It's their actions, their history, their mannerisms.. and yet all I have is someones narrative to go by.
And lately I'm not trusting narratives on a grand scale.
There so many lies and deceptions everywhere you turn. Getting hard to discern truth from lies.
So in the end it all comes back to the very questions you asked.
What is the Kingdom of God and how is it linked with his will being done on earth as it is in heaven?
All I can say is, I hope the scenery changes soon. This world looks nothing like God's Kingdom from where I sit.
Hugs
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
I like to ask this question because it was such a revelation to me when I discovered the simple truth about it.
I had heard about the Kingdom of God in the church I was raised in, but no one ever explained what it was and I always wondered why?
If I asked 6 different people, I usually got 6 different answers all beginning with "I think"....
I am not really interested in "I think"....I wanted "the Bible says"....a definitive clear, Bible based answer to my question....but it was never forthcoming.
In analyzing the Lord's Prayer I took it apart bit by bit...trying to figure out what Jesus was teaching us by means of this prayer.
"Our Father who art in heaven"...so God has a location "in heaven", and the one uttering this prayer was on earth, so I figured we have two separate individuals and only one is the *collective* "Father" of all. Jesus addressed his God as "our Father". So God was Jesus' Father too.
"Hallowed be thy name"......hallowed...sanctified, set apart as holy....but what is God's name? No one ever mentioned it for some reason.
In my old KJV it was shown to me at Psalm 83:18...
"That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth."
So the English translation of the Hebrew YHWH (Yahweh) was Jehovah....a name to be reverenced and yet it is hardly known in Christendom and rarely used.....the excuse is almost always the pronunciation as if God cannot speak all languages. And of course, there are no "J's" in Hebrew....etc. But the Bible is full of "J" names, so I wondered why it was OK to call Jeremiah or John by their English name but not Yahweh. I was even happy to call him "Yahweh" but the churches still refuse to name him.
"Thy Kingdom come".....How does the Kingdom "come"? We are not praying to go to the Kingdom, but for the Kingdom to come to us.....so how does it do that?
A "kingdom" technically speaking, is a "king" and his "dom"ain. So its a sovereign ruler who has a domain over which he rules.
So who is the King and where is his domain? Originally Yahweh himself was man's sovereign ruler and he was to remain such forever. But mankind's excursion into sin forced a separation between him and the sinful beings that mankind had become. So a co-regent was appointed....a Prince to rule in place of the King for a set period of time. (1,000 years) His domain was the entire earth, which Paul said was made "through him and for him". (Colossians 1:15-17)
"Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven"....this takes place as a consequence of the Kingdom's rulership.
So how does the Bible say that God brings the rulership of his Kingdom to the earth so that God's will can be done here as it is in heaven?
This is where I believe Daniel's prophesies come into play. Daniel was told to seal up his book because it was prophetic for the "time of the end" and no one would understand it before then. (Daniel 12:4, 9-10)
In ch 2 of Daniel we have a dream given to Nebuchadnezzar the King of Babylon, by God which Daniel interpreted for him....
"You, O king, were watching, and you saw an immense image. That image, which was huge and extremely bright, was standing in front of you, and its appearance was terrifying. 32 The head of that image was of fine gold, its chest and its arms were of silver, its abdomen and its thighs were of copper, 33 its legs were of iron, and its feet were partly of iron and partly of clay. 34 You looked on until a stone was cut out, not by hands, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and of clay and crushed them. 35 At that time the iron, the clay, the copper, the silver, and the gold were, all together, crushed and became like the chaff from the summer threshing floor, and the wind carried them away so that not a trace of them could be found. But the stone that struck the image became a large mountain, and it filled the whole earth."
This he went on to explain was a march of world powers who had dominion over God's people. They were in captivity in Babylon at the time, and the dream indicated that Babylon was the first of these powers......then Medo-Persia would over throw Babylon, which happened under circumstances which were foretold as well. The most powerful fortified city in the world, fell in one night with barely an arrow fired.
Medo-Persia was in turn, conquered by Greece under Alexander the Great, and Rome was to follow. It was under the Roman Empire that Jesus carried out his ministry and was put to death. Another world power was to follow (Britain) which was to unite with her former children (USA) in an alliance in this final part of Daniel's prophesy..."the time of the end". It is in the rulership of the current "kings" when God brings in the rulership of his Kingdom....
“In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever". (Daniel 2:44)
We are living in the time when God will actively bring an end to all failed human rulership and replace them by implementing his own rule over mankind in the capable hands of his son and those 'elected' to assist him in his kingdom. (Revelation 20:6)
So the Kingdom will "come" (ready or not) when Christ returns to judge mankind with all his angelic forces to "separate the sheep from the goats". Only then, when the wicked are dispatched, can God's will "be done on earth as it is in heaven". (Revelation 21:2-4)
He will rule from heaven for 1,000 years during which time the devil and his hordes will be in a state of complete inactivity. (Revelation 20:1-3)
Illuminator
Well-Known Member
The guilty should pay, and the innocent should not. This is a pedestrian axiom that is being trashed today when it comes to assessing priestly misconduct, something the Pennsylvania grand jury report has contributed to mightily.He sure did make a good scapegoat. I'll give you that.
But Judas didn't betray him. Judas did what was needed to be done in order for the prophecies to be fulfilled.
Judas never denied Christ.
Which one did the will of his father?
Jhn 18:3 Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons.
Jhn 18:4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
Jhn 18:10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.
Jhn 18:11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?
Luk 12:9 But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.
1Jo 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Jhn 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
Jhn 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
1Pe 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
1Pe 2:14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
1Pe 2:17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.
Luk 12:9 But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.
Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel,
I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
Act 5:12 And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch.
Act 5:13 And of the rest durst no man join himself to them: but the people magnified them.
Act 5:14 And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.)
Act 5:15 Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
Sorry @amigo de christo
I bow to no man.
Jesus Christ is my King. To give allegience to any other is TREASON.
Hugs
No amount of compassion for those who have been violated by priests should ever be done at the expense of telling the truth, no matter how unpopular it may sound. To do otherwise is cowardly, shameful, and unjust.
What is driving the current mania over this issue is not hard to figure out. I am a sociologist who has been dealing with this issue for a long time, having published articles about it in books and international journals.
Here is what’s going on. There are many vicious critics of the Catholic Church who would like to weaken its moral authority, and will seize on any problem it has to discredit its voice. Why? They hate its teachings on sexuality, marriage, and the family.
PENNSYLVANIA GRAND JURY REPORT DEBUNKED
BreadOfLife
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Nope - and neither did Jesus force His follpowers to drink "physical red blood".
That's why He gave His disciples the SACRAMENTAL way to consume Him at the Last Supper.
I already explained this to you in my last post - but you insist on arguing dishonestly because your losinf the arguument on Scriptural grounds.
And I already explained this to you aas well.
OUR flesh and OUR way of thinkning profuts nothing. HIS flesh profits EVERYTHING.
It's becauuse of His sacrifice - in the FLESH - that you are redeemed.
Son, instead of fighting Him llike the disciples who walked away in John 6:66 - be obedient to Him.
Sacramental sin is what you are involved with. Forced or not, you don't want people drinking your blood in any way shape or form, so you trangress the True Law when you do it to another.
It is as if you cut off a dog's neck. It is iniquity:
Isaiah 66:3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
BreadOfLife
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So, you EQUATE Jesus's sacrifice on our behalf as "Iniquity"??
And you want to be taken seriously here??
With that - ALL of your arguments go right down the drain . . .
The Lamb who is sacrificed is innocent, but the one who sacrifices the lamb is "as if he cut off a dog's neck".
Drinking blood is iniquity, eating flesh is iniquity, sacrificing a lamb is iniquity.
The true sacrifice is in the heart:
For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
Show me a Verse in the KJV that says “ Repenting OF SINS” is the way to get Saved and I’ll sendcyou $ 1000.....The only “ Repentance” That Saves is the Repentance that involves “ TURNING to God with Faith in Jesus Christ”..... it is the “ Change of Mind” where a person is an UNbeliever in the Gospel and becomes a Believer in the Gospel——THAT is the Repentance That Saves....
When it comes to sorrow for sins or regrets for sins, Judas is the King—— and I think that we all know where he is today....
If you take “ repenting” to mean “ STOP sinning”....... that is an impossibility ....how’s your “thought life”......ever have an impure thought ? Do you ever worry ? Worrying is a sin....while you are sitting around doing nothing , you are committing “ Sins Of Omission”—— why didn’t you invite the poor and homeless people in your area inside of your house to feed and clothe ? Have I made my point?
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The KJV is NOT the only Bible that is the Word of God.
and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
Luke 24:47 ESV
I will have the $1000
Repent, get saved. Don't repent, perish:
Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
-"Repenting of Sins to get saved":
Ezekiel 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Ezekiel 18:27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
Ezekiel 33:14 Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;
15 If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Ezekiel 33:19 But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.
Proverbs 19:5 A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall not escape.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
The delusion of the all inclusion is very powerful ziggy . And it begins and has began long agoHe sure did make a good scapegoat. I'll give you that.
But Judas didn't betray him. Judas did what was needed to be done in order for the prophecies to be fulfilled.
Judas never denied Christ.
Which one did the will of his father?
Jhn 18:3 Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons.
Jhn 18:4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
Jhn 18:10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.
Jhn 18:11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?
Luk 12:9 But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.
1Jo 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Jhn 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
Jhn 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
1Pe 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
1Pe 2:14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
1Pe 2:17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.
Luk 12:9 But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.
Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel,
I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
Act 5:12 And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch.
Act 5:13 And of the rest durst no man join himself to them: but the people magnified them.
Act 5:14 And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.)
Act 5:15 Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
Sorry @amigo de christo
I bow to no man.
Jesus Christ is my King. To give allegience to any other is TREASON.
Hugs
with a perverted love . A love which twists the very love of GOD .
But i come to remind us of the love which comes from GOD .
Judas did betray Christ . Just because GOD used pharoah dont mean pharoah was saved
ANd just because GOD used judas dont mean he was either .
Better were if for that man if he had never been born . YES GOD is in control
but HE uses the evil , the weapon for HIS own purpose . IT DONT MEAN the weapon is saved though .
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