Jesus Died for Judas

[Daniel L.]

No - Jesus meant His BLOOD - not a metaphor or syymbol.

Are you so carnal as to think Jesus gave His carnal blood to drink? It is unlawfull to drink blood, so He can only mean drink for the spirit.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

His blood is real drink for the spirit, the spirit does not drink carnal blood, it drinks truth and life:

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

This is one of those things not worth discussing you know?

John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Communion is a symbolic eating and drinking of the blood of Jesus as a REMEMBRANCE of His sacrifice of flesh and blood on the cross, and not a pagan vampire/ cannibal ritual.

That's funny - because that is EXACTLY what the pagan Romas accused the Early Christians of for their deep-rooted faith in the Real Presence - "Cannibalism".
You should be very proud . . .

And tell me - since when does "REMEMBRANCE" translate to "symbolic" or "metaphorical"??
Exactly WHICH part of "This IS my body" and "This IS my blood" do you have difficulty with?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Are you so carnal as to think Jesus gave His carnal blood to drink? It is unlawfull to drink blood, so He can only mean drink for the spirit.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

His blood is real drink for the spirit, the spirit does not drink carnal blood, it drinks truth and life:

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

This is one of those things not worth discussing you know?

John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

I think it's frightening that, as a Christian - you actually believe that Jesus's flesh profits "nothing". It is HIS flesh that was hung on a cross for the sins of the world.

Jesus said this in Johyn 6:63 because the crowd refused to accept what He was telling them.
It was THEIR human reasoning and doubting thinking that He was addressing - not HIS flesh.

After they left Him in verse 66 - does He explain the "symbolism" to them as He ALWAYS did when questions arose? NO - He turnsa to the Telve ans days, "Are you ALSO going to leave?"
He doubled-down on what He was telling them because there was NO alternat=te explanation.
At the Lastr Supper - He showed them how to consume Him SACRAMENTALLY.

Just as the Passover Lamb was to be consumed - the SAME is tru for our Paschal Lam - Jesus.

 

[Daniel L.]

you actually believe that Jesus's flesh profits "nothing"

I believe the Word, if He said the flesh profits nothing, then His flesh profits nothing. His flesh is in heaven, He said this just to take you away from thinking in carnal physical flesh and blood, and explained: they are spirit, and they are life.

He explain the "symbolism" to them as He ALWAYS did when questions arose? NO

He had already explained they are Spirit and Life, there were no questions because they were not carnally minded.

Just as the Passover Lamb was to be consumed - the SAME is tru for our Paschal Lam - Jesus.

Yes, you are to consume His Spirit and Life. Like I said not worth discussing:

John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

 

[Illuminator]

I believe the Word, if He said the flesh profits nothing, then His flesh profits nothing. His flesh is in heaven, He said this just to take you away from thinking in carnal physical flesh and blood, and explained: they are spirit, and they are life.

He had already explained they are Spirit and Life, there were no questions because they were not carnally minded.

Yes, you are to consume His Spirit and Life. Like I said not worth discussing:

John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

John 3:6 – Jesus often used the comparison of “spirit versus flesh” to teach about the necessity of possessing supernatural faith versus a natural understanding. In Mark 14:38 Jesus also uses the “spirit/flesh” comparison. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. We must go beyond the natural to understand the supernatural. In 1 Cor. 2:14,3:3; Rom 8:5; and Gal. 5:17, Paul also uses the “spirit/flesh” comparison to teach that unspiritual people are not receiving the gift of faith. They are still “in the flesh.”

John 6:63 – Protestants often argue that Jesus’ use of the phrase “the spirit gives life” shows that Jesus was only speaking symbolically. However, Protestants must explain why there is not one place in Scripture where “spirit” means “symbolic.” As we have seen, the use of “spirit” relates to supernatural faith. What words are spirit and life? The words that we must eat Jesus’ flesh and drink His blood, or we have no life in us.

John 6:66-67 – many disciples leave Jesus, rejecting this literal interpretation that we must eat His flesh and drink His blood. At this point, these disciples really thought Jesus had lost His mind. If they were wrong about the literal interpretation, why wouldn’t Jesus, the Great Teacher, have corrected them? Why didn’t Jesus say, “Hey, come back here, I was only speaking symbolically!”? Because they understood correctly. (and they refused to believe)

Mark 4:34 – Jesus always explained to His disciples the real meanings of His teachings. He never would have let them go away with a false impression, most especially in regard to a question about eternal salvation.

John 6:37 – Jesus says He would not drive those away from Him. They understood Him correctly but would not believe.

John 3:5,11; Matt. 16:11-12 – here are some examples of Jesus correcting wrong impressions of His teaching. In the Eucharistic discourse, Jesus does not correct the scandalized disciples.
THE EUCHARIST - Scripture Catholic

Supernatural faith is required to accept the Real Presence, natural faith is all you need to accept the real absence. To get this supernatural faith, all you have to do is ask. It is a gift from God, and cannot be acquired by arguing in forums.

Eucharistic Index - The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist

 

[BreadOfLife]

I believe the Word, if He said the flesh profits nothing, then His flesh profits nothing. His flesh is in heaven, He said this just to take you away from thinking in carnal physical flesh and blood, and explained: they are spirit, and they are life.

So, you actually believe that the flesh of our Savior Jersus christ profits "NOTHING"??
Good luck telling HIM that when He is judging uyou . . .
Matt. 10:32-33
So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven, but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.

He had already explained they are Spirit and Life, there were no questions because they were not carnally minded.

WRONG.

His words about "Spirit and Life" were about the fact that the crowd couldn't think on a spiritual level - NOT that rating His flersh was "sumbolic".
As I stated before - that is a 16th century invention of your Protestant Fathers and was NEVER taught in the hitoric Christian Church for 1500 years..

Yes, you are to consume His Spirit and Life. Like I said not worth discussing:

John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.[/QUOTE]
The verse you quotes PROVES my point that His words about "Spirit and Life" were about the fact that the crowd couldn't think on a spiritual level - because it had NOT been revealed to them by the Father.
John 6:63-65
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing (flechly/human THINKING). The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life. Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

 

[Daniel L.]

many disciples leave Jesus, rejecting this literal interpretation that we must eat His flesh and drink His blood. At this point, these disciples really thought Jesus had lost His mind. If they were wrong about the literal interpretation, why wouldn’t Jesus, the Great Teacher, have corrected them?

Because it's pointless, It is the spirit that quickeneth, no man can come unto Him, except it were given unto him of the Father. And they left so it would be made manifest they were never of us, and He knew the Father had not given to them, to come to Him.

when He is judging uyou . . .

-Physical carnal red blood is not "drink indeed":

Deuteronomy 12:23 Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood is the life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh.

-Physical carnal flesh is not "food indeed":

Genesis 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

-You want flesh?

Numbers 11:18 And say thou unto the people, Sanctify yourselves against to morrow, and ye shall eat flesh: for ye have wept in the ears of the Lord, saying, Who shall give us flesh to eat? for it was well with us in Egypt: therefore the Lord will give you flesh, and ye shall eat.
19 Ye shall not eat one day, nor two days, nor five days, neither ten days, nor twenty days;
20 But even a whole month, until it come out at your nostrils, and it be loathsome unto you: because that ye have despised the Lord which is among you, and have wept before him, saying, Why came we forth out of Egypt?
33 And while the flesh was yet between their teeth, ere it was chewed, the wrath of the Lord was kindled against the people, and the Lord smote the people with a very great plague.
34 And he called the name of that place Kibrothhattaavah: because there they buried the people that lusted.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Because it's pointless, It is the spirit that quickeneth, no man can come unto Him, except it were given unto him of the Father. And they left so it would be made manifest they were never of us, and He knew the Father had not given to them, to come to Him.

-Physical carnal red blood is not "drink indeed":

Deuteronomy 12:23 Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood is the life; and thou mayest not eat the life with the flesh.

-Physical carnal flesh is not "food indeed":

Genesis 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

-You want flesh?

Numbers 11:18 And say thou unto the people, Sanctify yourselves against to morrow, and ye shall eat flesh: for ye have wept in the ears of the Lord, saying, Who shall give us flesh to eat? for it was well with us in Egypt: therefore the Lord will give you flesh, and ye shall eat.
19 Ye shall not eat one day, nor two days, nor five days, neither ten days, nor twenty days;
20 But even a whole month, until it come out at your nostrils, and it be loathsome unto you: because that ye have despised the Lord which is among you, and have wept before him, saying, Why came we forth out of Egypt?
33 And while the flesh was yet between their teeth, ere it was chewed, the wrath of the Lord was kindled against the people, and the Lord smote the people with a very great plague.
34 And he called the name of that place Kibrothhattaavah: because there they buried the people that lusted.

Yjr [[rphobotion agaiunst sonsuming blood in yhr OT was that the LIFE of the animal is in the blood (Deut. 12:23).
WHOSE life DO we wan6t inside of us? That of Jesus Crist.

That's why He said:
John 6:53-55
Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. For my FLECH is real food and my BLOOD is real drink.

 

[Daniel L.]

Yjr [[rphobotion agaiunst sonsuming blood in yhr OT was that the LIFE of the animal

Leviticus 17:14 For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off.

C'mon man get to your senses are you actually trying to defend canibalism and vampirism in public as a "Christian", there is no shame anymore?

 

[BarneyFife]

Blah, blah, blah. Your whole life is strawman.

I have a post for you, Pitiful. Since you don't have the guts or the decency to do anything but insult people's posts and then run off like a little coward, I have no choice but to bring the post to you.

Come discuss it, you little coward. You had the guts the start the fight, but you never have any to finish one. Isn't that right, you little Wimp?
Russian-Ukraine War: The West's Fault

I've got a new hero, and his initials are H I H. He sure enough is handy with the hit-and-runs, but I somehow have developed a soft spot for him. I think he actually means well, sometimes. Or maybe I just need to be hauled away, I don't know.

 

[Daniel L.]

I've got a new hero, and his initials are H I H.

That is because you are not the one getting insulted.

Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I've got a new hero, and his initials are H I H. He sure enough is handy with the hit-and-runs, but I somehow have developed a soft spot for him. I think he actually means well, sometimes. Or maybe I just need to be hauled away, I don't know.

Maybe we both need to be, Lol : )

I'm on a self-imposed break, but this post was funny enough I thought I should at least bounce in and comment. I've learned a few things about the man over the last week or so. I think he doesn't do much of his own thinking, but instead tends to get his thought politically and spiritually from others. This is why he tends to copy and paste, and then hit and run when he's confronted about his posts. If you throw something at him he doesn't have ready answers for and can't get from someone else, he goes blank. All this would be forgivable, of course, if it weren't for how insulting he gets about the "stupidity" of other people's posts, which may stem from his own fears about himself and his own inadequacies.

I've taken his side over the years because he at least takes an orthodox position on most issues, but he really set me off this time, and I'm setting into a determination now to start dismantling him over the next several years (or the rest of my life if necessary) until he changes his behavior. We all lose our patience, and most of all me, but unlike others what you never see from Enoch is anything resembling repentance, which again may suggest a poor self-image that can't admit any failings. But it's going to get poorer by the month if he doesn't start showing some real contrition now, cuz I will light him up regularly if he continues with business as usual. I've had it with him.

And don't make me your hero just yet, LoL. Scripture says we're not supposed to let the sun go down on our anger, and I spent four full days wanting his head on a plate.

God bless, and you're a good dude as well. I disagree with some SDA theology, but you are yet another example of one with good character, and you do your denomination well by it. When I teach in the future, I will do so with respect for the SDAs because of people like you.

Back to my self-imposed hibernation.
- H

 

[BarneyFife]

That is because you are not the one getting insulted.

Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Yeah, we like to have a little fun around here every now and then. Sorry if that doesn't meet with your approval. Not really too much hate going on. Take care you be not found bearing false witness or indulging in hypocrisy. By the way, in case you're not very self-aware, you're coming across pretty strong for somebody who hasn't been around so long. If you think that's appropriate then, by all means, carry on, but I'd say it's barely possible that you don't know what you're talking about when you insert yourself into the relations of people who know each other a little better than you know anyone here.

 

[Illuminator]

Leviticus 17:14 For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off.

C'mon man get to your senses are you actually trying to defend cannibalisms and vampirism in public as a "Christian", there is no shame anymore?

Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. For my FLESH is real food and my BLOOD is real drink.

According to you, Jesus is a cannibal and a vampire. This is the same lame argument used by JW's. Do you stick to any other Jewish laws, or just this one to use as a bat to beat Catholics? Do you also circumcise baby boys on the 8th day after birth as God commanded?
+++
It’s clear that the way God wishes us to sacrifice has changed. No longer do we offer the blood (and fat) of bulls and goats.

Instead, Christ has sacrificed himself on the Cross once for all, and today he perpetually offers himself in heaven and through the sacrifice of the Mass. With the change in the manner of sacrifice, one might suppose that the requirements concerning blood and fat in the Old Testament have also passed away.
Are Christians Forbidden to Consume Blood?

 

[BarneyFife]

Maybe we both need to be, Lol : )

I'm on a self-imposed break, but this post was funny enough I thought I should at least bounce in and comment. I've learned a few things about the man over the last week or so. I think he doesn't do much of his own thinking, but instead tends to get his thought politically and spiritually from others. This is why he tends to copy and paste, and then hit and run when he's confronted about his posts. If you throw something at him he doesn't have ready answers for and can't get from someone else, he goes blank. All this would be forgivable, of course, if it weren't for how insulting he gets about the "stupidity" of other people's posts, which may stem from his own fears about himself and his own inadequacies.

I've taken his side over the years because he at least takes an orthodox position on most issues, but he really set me off this time, and I'm setting into a determination now to start dismantling him over the next several years (or the rest of my life if necessary) until he changes his behavior. We all lose our patience, and most of all me, but unlike others what you never see from Enoch is anything resembling repentance, which again may suggest a poor self-image that can't admit any failings. But it's going to get poorer by the month if he doesn't start showing some real contrition now, cuz I will light him up regularly if he continues with business as usual. I've had it with him.

And don't make me your hero just yet, LoL. Scripture says we're not supposed to let the sun go down on our anger, and I spent four full days wanting his head on a plate.

God bless, and you're a good dude as well. I disagree with some SDA theology, but you are yet another example of one with good character, and you do your denomination well by it. When I teach in the future, I will do so with respect for the SDAs because of people like you.

Back to my self-imposed hibernation.
- H

You're much too kind, my friend. I fondly remember you as one who welcomed me warmly when I was new here. Unfortunately, I just found myself compelled to call out a new member for what seems almost certainly to be presumptuous, undue aggression. That usually doesn't yield much, if any, good fruit but I guess you gotta go with what you know. : Enjoy your vacation! ;)

 

[BarneyFife]

With the change in the manner of sacrifice, one might suppose that the requirements concerning blood and fat in the Old Testament have also passed away.

They might, indeed, but it also just might be that God was onto something with that call. :)

 

[Daniel L.]

have a little fun

Your fun comes at expense of another, and insults are not "fun", nor "little fun". It is only because you are not the one getting insulted that you think it's "fun", because if it were you getting insulted, you wouldn't like it. Because he was insulted, I became insulted:

Because of the sick, I am sick; Because of the hungry, I am hungry; Because of the thirsty, I am thirty.

 

[Daniel L.]

-Physical carnal red blood is not "drink indeed"

-Physical carnal flesh is not "food indeed"

According to you, Jesus is a cannibal and a vampire.

This is the same lame argument used by JW's

If the argument is lame why you can't respond to it. The fact is: you are so wrong that even a JW can rebuke you.

No longer do we offer the blood (and fat) of bulls and goats.
Instead, Christ has sacrificed himself

Blood Sacrifice?

1 Samuel 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

-Sacrifice is leaven from the pharisees:

Matthew 16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Ezekiel 5:6 And she hath changed my judgments into wickedness more than the nations, and my statutes more than the countries that are round about her: for they have refused my judgments and my statutes, they have not walked in them.

-Corruption of the covenant of Levi:

Malachi 2:8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

-Blood Sacrifice is not what our Father in Heaven wants:

Psalms 51:16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Isaiah 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

-Blood Sacrifice was not commanded by our Father:

Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

-Blood sacrifice is "of fools" and evil:

Ecclesiastes 5:1 Keep thy foot when thou goest to the house of God, and be more ready to hear, than to give the sacrifice of fools: for they consider not that they do evil.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Leviticus 17:14 For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off.

C'mon man get to your senses are you actually trying to defend canibalism and vampirism in public as a "Christian", there is no shame anymore?

Congratulations - you're NOT alone in your lack of faith.

As I indicated before - "Cannibalism" is EXACTLY what the pagan Romans accused the Early Chridstians of. We see this un ancient works like Minucius "Felix’s Octavius". In this work - he claims that the main reason for the Christian gatherings was to engage in cannibalism. He was decribing the sacrifice of the Mass.

As I ALSO stated earlier - YOUR rejection of the Real Presence in the Eucharist is a relatively NEW Protestant invention going back only as far as men like John Calvin some 500 years go because of their lack of faith..

As to Leviticus 17:14, once AGAIN - the prohibition has to do with the fact that the LIFE is in the blood. You were not to consume blood because you would have the LIFE of that flesh in YOU. The Earlu christians understood as Christ commanded - thet they WANTED His life in them.

Jesus didn't tell His disciples to bite Him and eat his tissue and muscle. He gave them the SACREMENTAL way to consume Him in the form of bread and wine - so YOUR pagan charges of "cannibalism" go right OUT the window.

Jesus said the He is the FULFILLMENT of the Law - He is NOT bounbd by it (Matt. 5:17).

 

[Daniel L.]

"Felix’s Octavius"

Funny how you have nothing in the bible to support you, but only outside the Word do you find your support.

Real Presence

I don't deny "real Presence", Im feeding my spirit with His Spirit and His Truth, and you are feeding your flesh with bread and wine, which you wrongly call His flesh and His blood. I have showed you already, blood is not "real drink" neither is flesh "real food" in His eyes.

SACREMENTAL

"cannibalism"

Sacramental or not, a sin is a sin. Even if the wine you drink is a transmutation into His blood. The moment you say you drink His real carnal red blood, you trangress the Law. Same with the flesh, like your ancestors who carved for flesh in the desert and He gave them flesh until it came out of theyr nostrils, and they perish for reason of the plague.