Is it possible to be SCRIPTURALLY CORRECT AND NOT BE SPIRITUALLY CORRECT?

[ScottA]

I'm not baiting at all. I am pointing to what appears to be a flaw in your argument. You say the entire Bible is the Word of God, but the Bible says women can't speak in a church, and you don't endorse that.

Read my explanation. I have stated the matter clearly now repeatedly.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Paul seemed to be of the mindset that men ruled over women. I don't think that's how the Lord sees it.

But it is! Paul made it clear under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit i Eph. 5 that wives are tro submit to their husbands as they submit to Jesus!

Peter confirmed this also!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Some people don't believe in Paul - they believe in Jesus.

If you reject Paul, you by default reject Jesus. How can you trust anything in the bible or any revelation then???

 

[Ronald Nolette]

It is my belief that God did not tell Paul to say that.

And what is your authority for you to reject what is in Scripture?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

"Face value" is only what is visible, but that which is spirit, as God is spirit, is not.

And how does one determine what is not visible? By the face value of men? YOu speak like a covenant theologian speaks. To put it in common vernacular they simply says this: " I know what the bible says, but this is what it really means."

We have hundred's of "what the bible really means" from many would be prophets. Why is yours any more authorative than all these other self proclaimed visionaries from God?

 

[Bob Estey]

Such is the Law in the hands of men. Even so, you are correct--except when taken up against the truth from God. Which men, even Godly men, often reject.

And who among us completely understands God's truth?

 

[Bob Estey]

Read my explanation. I have stated the matter clearly now repeatedly.

But the Bible clearly states women can't speak in a church.

 

[Bob Estey]

But it is! Paul made it clear under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit i Eph. 5 that wives are tro submit to their husbands as they submit to Jesus!

Peter confirmed this also!

No, it isn't. The Lord commanded us to love our neighbor as ourselves. How would you like women lording over you? Remember when the Lord had Deborah rule over Israel? Where does the Lord tell men to rule over women?

 

[Bob Estey]

If you reject Paul, you by default reject Jesus. How can you trust anything in the bible or any revelation then???

Jesus is my Lord, not Paul.

 

[Bob Estey]

And what is your authority for you to reject what is in Scripture?

Scripture isn't my Lord - Jesus is my Lord.

 

[MA2444]

My shortest possible answer is this:

to be "spiritually correct" you must first be "scripturally correct"

... unless you mean something different with those two phrases than what I perceive.

It was a good question. And it can be taken in different ways. I can see the truth in what you said but if we flip the coin wouldn't it be the same?

WHat'd He say? My words are spirit and they are life...and so since the Carnal man can not understand or comprehend the things of the spirit (for they are spiritual and thereby spiritually discerned.) So you would have to be spiritually correct first in order to be led into all truth in the scripture and become scripturally correct.

I think I can prove it? (To people who read the Bible). When you first had an encounter with God and perhaps had a Holy Spirit experience then what did you do? Gave your ife to Him and accepted Him as your Lord...and then went home and prayed and read your bible., right? That's what I did. Ok so anyway, when you first started reading the bible, was it easy? No of course not, lol. It's like it was written in code or something! Especially if you started with a KJV bible with it's Shakesperian English, which mine was. Not only that but it's written in such a way that it's almost like that, when Jesus had the manuscript done, He shuffled up the pages before it went to print! So instead of a Rapture section, a Love section, compassion section and all that stuff, it's all spread out throughout the bible and not so much in sections. We could study this book for our entire lives and not fully absorb it. We will prolly continue to study it in Heaven! ??

But anyone who takes on the task of reading the bible every day finds out that, it gets easier to understand the more you read it. Now that is probably a function that the Holy Spirit does for us, revealing to us the truth within! And the more we study the more He reveals. It's in

John 16:13-15
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.../KJV

Now what I have learned over time is that, the more one pays attention to the world, the less he is able to hear the Lord. The more that one lends his attention to the spiritual things of our Lord then it begins to be able to be heard by us.

So if a good man who attends church on Sunday every week and reads several verses that the Pastor pointed out in his sermon...and then goes home for 5 or 6 days of working and family, then he hasn't been meditating on the Lord hardly at all. Work in the daytime and television after work and BBQ's on the weekend or whatever then no wonder that man can not understand the bible!

There's a certain amount of truth to what you posted, but they sort of go hand in hand. But without the Spirit moving first,understanding will not come. But a new Believer or even an unbeliever can pick up the bible and begin to read and then the Spirit comes and gives revelation and understanding. bit by bit. If the soul continues to study the scripture then more understanding comes but if they stop studying so much and drift back into TV shows or internet then understanding and hearing go away.

I doubt if any of us are completely scripturally correct. The seeds are God's word and the Water is the Holy Spirit. We have to show up for school and come into His presence so He can teach us and lead us into some truth. (Sic!-It says ALL Truth).

That's my short answer, lol.

 

[ScottA]

And how does one determine what is not visible? By the face value of men? YOu speak like a covenant theologian speaks. To put it in common vernacular they simply says this: " I know what the bible says, but this is what it really means."

We have hundred's of "what the bible really means" from many would be prophets. Why is yours any more authorative than all these other self proclaimed visionaries from God?

The determination (of what is and is not true) begins and ends with and by God (whom is spirit). The problem you describe only occurs when people presume to receive truth from God without Him. Which only comes from God--but does come by different means--including through people of His choosing.

Which means the words are not what is even most important, but rather the source. So hearing many claims, is not really of issue. Which raises a bigger question of how one is able to hear the Spirit above all the noise? Which is a matter of getting to know Him better. Which cannot be done through interaction with people, but rather with God alone.

 

[ScottA]

And who among us completely understands God's truth?

Do not discount the idea of completely understanding God, as Jesus said, "you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." Truth comes from God from God "here a little there a little" until the end.

 

[ScottA]

But the Bible clearly states women can't speak in a church.

I'll take that as "No" (as rejecting "what the Spirit says to the churches").

 

[Verily]

Is it possible to be SCRIPTURALLY CORRECT AND NOT BE SPIRITUALLY CORRECT?​

In the Pericope Adulterae (John 7:53-8:11), those who wanted to stone the woman caught in the act of adultery were scripturally correct - but spiritually wrong.

Think about it.

Where else did Jesus show the Pharisees where they were scripturally correct but spiritually wrong?

Where could we be playing it by the Book but still be spiritually mistaken?

I dont know if we can say they were playing it by the book though, because look here

Leviticus 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

They caught the woman (or the adulteress here) in the very act itself

John 8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

But where is the man? The adulterer in this act?

So they only brought her (the adulteress) forth, but did not bring the adulterer forth? If they were going by the book both the man and the woman were to be put to death.

 

[Bob Estey]

Do not discount the idea of completely understanding God, as Jesus said, "you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." Truth comes from God from God "here a little there a little" until the end.

I wouldn't recommend interpreting "you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect" to mean we will become like the Lord. I think it just means we need to repent of all our sin.

 

[Bob Estey]

I'll take that as "No" (as rejecting "what the Spirit says to the churches").

Paul said women can't speak in a church, and you say that is the Word of God.

 

[Lambano]

But where is the man? The adulterer in this act?

Men are typically stronger than women and able to run faster.

(Mark allusion shamelessly taken completely out of context.)

The fact that only the woman was caught did not escape notice in a couple of our Bible study guides, though.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

But the Bible clearly states women can't speak in a church.

Define “church” where women are not allowed to speak? Considering I don’t go to any church building to get in the way of the rule of women should not speak in “our building” built with mens hands …it’s simple to not infringe on this fight for who has authority in the church building with its podium.

It’s an age old gender battle, but nobody Ever wants to talk about who is “an adulterous woman” and “who is No more called an adulterous woman, but you(men) have been made free from being called the adulterous woman by the body of Christ, free to bring forth children (fruit) unto God.”

In the case of the men picking up stones to hurl at the woman caught in adultery…they struggle to see they are the adulterous woman themselves. The stones they hurl may be as good as throwing bible verses to prove their accusations, their hurling “stones” at the adulterous woman “do not lust after another”, or “do not turn aside from your husband and go after another in your own lust” …where your husband can drag you before the priest to drink the bitter water containing the curse, “do not lie in another’s bed besides your husband” “do not murder” “do not bear false witness”…to which Jesus Christ tells them “let him who is not guilty, cast the first stone”. They are the adulterous woman taking up stones to cast at “the woman caught in adultery” in retrospect (it’s not a gender thing) but they take up stones against themselves.

I don’t think Scott is trying to devalue “let the women keep silent” but instead if men confess women should keep silent, …they confess (all) women within the body of Christ which has One head, One Lord, which is Christ as the high Priest— should (all) shut their mouths and be silent and in subjection to Christ.
Isaiah 58:13 “If, because of the Sabbath, you restrain your foot From doing as you wish on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a pleasure, and the holy day of the Lord honorable, And honor it, desisting from your own ways, From seeking your own pleasure And speaking your own word,
^how many men saying the women should be silent in the church, speak their own words and not those of Christ? Which ironically makes a full circle back to what you said about Paul’s “let the woman be silent” “in subjection to their own husband” Romans 7:6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter. (Note, to me it’s not even speaking of my husband but which are we (you men) are under; the oldness of the letter, or newness of the spirit? That husband either bound (you men) to the oldness of the letter, or loosed from it to serve in newness(you men). Let the woman be in subjection to her own husband. Either in subjection to the oldness of the letter, or in Subjection to serve in newness of sprit. I wish you could see it is which do you serve and not about putting husbands and wives against each other)
…you said Paul spoke his own words and not the words of Christ? Yet Paul understood “woman” clearly given by Revelation of Christ..Paul seeing they are a brawling woman in a wide house while they pointed fingers at their wives, thinking it was their wives spoken of as the brawling woman in a wide house. Missing, unto to their own destruction (same as let the the women be silent), that they are that woman spoken of as “the brawling woman in a wide house”. How many times did God say, why are you as menstruating women, how many times have you gone after your own thoughts and after your own way and your own lust which are NOT My Ways? That is what is happening with “let the women keep silent” which is being interpreted “after their own ways” “after the own thoughts” “after their own lusts”.

It is no accident “let the women keep silent” has given them over to their own reprobate Mind for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved. Given enough rope where “let the women keep silent” will catch the evil one in his own trap. You keep saying that isn’t the way of Christ, so Paul must have wrote his own interpretation. not many will agree but when Jesus Christ told them to go make friends with the unrighteousness of mammon, so that when it fails, they will receive them unto eternal habitations. Does it sound like Jesus Christ to tell them to go make friends with the unrighteous mammon? But it is His saying this…knowing it will fail. This gender interpretation of who is the women told to be silent, will fail.

 

[David Lamb]

Define “church” where women are not allowed to speak? Considering I don’t go to any church building to get in the way of the rule of women should not speak in “our building” built with mens hands …it’s simple to not infringe on this fight for who has authority in the church building with its podium.

It’s an age old gender battle, but nobody Ever wants to talk about who is “an adulterous woman” and “who is No more called an adulterous woman, but you(men) have been made free from being called the adulterous woman by the body of Christ, free to bring forth children (fruit) unto God.”

In the case of the men picking up stones to hurl at the woman caught in adultery…they struggle to see they are the adulterous woman themselves. The stones they hurl may be as good as throwing bible verses to prove their accusations, their hurling “stones” at the adulterous woman “do not lust after another”, or “do not turn aside from your husband and go after another in your own lust” …where your husband can drag you before the priest to drink the bitter water containing the curse, “do not lie in another’s bed besides your husband” “do not murder” “do not bear false witness”…to which Jesus Christ tells them “let him who is not guilty, cast the first stone”. They are the adulterous woman taking up stones to cast at “the woman caught in adultery” in retrospect (it’s not a gender thing) but they take up stones against themselves.

I don’t think Scott is trying to devalue “let the women keep silent” but instead if men confess women should keep silent, …they confess (all) women within the body of Christ which has One head, One Lord, which is Christ as the high Priest— should (all) shut their mouths and be silent and in subjection to Christ.
Isaiah 58:13 “If, because of the Sabbath, you restrain your foot From doing as you wish on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a pleasure, and the holy day of the Lord honorable, And honor it, desisting from your own ways, From seeking your own pleasure And speaking your own word,
^how many men saying the women should be silent in the church, speak their own words and not those of Christ? Which ironically makes a full circle back to what you said about Paul’s “let the woman be silent” “in subjection to their own husbands” …you said Paul spoke his own words and not the words of Christ? Yet Paul understood “woman” clearly given by Revelation of Christ..Paul seeing they are a brawling woman in a wide house while they pointed fingers at their wives, thinking it was their wives spoken of as the brawling woman in a wide house. Missing, unto to their own destruction (same as let the the women be silent), that they are that woman spoken of as “the brawling woman in a wide house”. How many times did God say, why are you as menstruating women, how many times have you gone after your own thoughts and after your own way and your own lust which are NOT My Ways? That is what is happening with “let the women keep silent” which is being interpreted “after their own ways” “after the own thoughts” “after their own lusts”.

It is no accident “let the women keep silent” has given them over to their own reprobate Mind for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved. Given enough rope where “let the women keep silent” will catch the evil one in his own trap. You keep saying that isn’t the way of Christ, so Paul must have wrote his own interpretation. not many will agree but when Jesus Christ told them to go make friends with the unrighteousness of mammon, so that when it fails, they will receive them unto eternal habitations. Does it sound like Jesus Christ to tell them to go make friends with the unrighteous mammon? But it is His saying this…knowing it will fail. This gender interpretation of who is the women are told to be silent, will fail.

In the bible, the word "church" is never used of a physical building. "Church" in the New Testament can mean two things. It can mean a local body of Christians who meet together to worship God and hear His word preached, and who seek to spread the gospel in their locality. For example:

“To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:” (1Co 1:2 NKJV)

It is also used to refer to all Christians of every time and place:

“Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her,” (Eph 5:25 NKJV)

But never in the bible does it refer to the building in which Christians meet for worship.