Is it possible to be SCRIPTURALLY CORRECT AND NOT BE SPIRITUALLY CORRECT?

[ScottA]

Paul said women can't speak in a church. If that is the Word of God, then I'm sure you discourage women from speaking when they are in your church.

If you were hearing what the Spirit has said to the churches or even paying attention and willing, you could be helping to comfort the church with the truth. Instead--it pains me to say, your apparent lack of faith in God to be true to His word, is not edifying.

 

[ScottA]

I follow Jesus, not Paul.

Jesus sent Paul.

 

[Bob Estey]

If you were hearing what the Spirit has said to the churches or even paying attention and willing, you could be helping to comfort the church with the truth. Instead--it pains me to say, your apparent lack of faith in God to be true to His word, is not edifying.

You tell me Paul's words are the Lord's words, and Paul said women can't speak in a church, but you say they can.

 

[Bob Estey]

Jesus sent Paul.

I do not follow Paul. I follow Jesus.

 

[ScottA]

You tell me Paul's words are the Lord's words, and Paul said women can't speak in a church, but you say they can.

Have you not read or heard that without the Spirit (to the natural man) the words of scripture are foolishness (1 Corinthians 2:14)?

Stop yielding to and being that foolish man.

 

[ScottA]

I do not follow Paul. I follow Jesus.

If you followed Jesus, then you would also followed Paul, because with and in God they are One. Thus, not to also follow Paul, is to only follow Jesus in part.

 

[Bob Estey]

Have you not read or heard that without the Spirit (to the natural man) the words of scripture are foolishness (1 Corinthians 2:14)?

Stop yielding to and being that foolish man.

Paul makes it very clear: Women aren't to speak in a church. If you believe those are the Lord's words, then you should obey.

 

[Bob Estey]

If you followed Jesus, then you would also followed Paul, because with and in God they are One. Thus, not to also follow Paul, is to only follow Jesus in part.

I don't have two Lords - I have one, and his name is Jesus.

 

[ScottA]

Paul makes it very clear: Women aren't to speak in a church. If you believe those are the Lord's words, then you should obey.

I do, but not because I am a woman of the Corinthian church of 2,000 years ago, but because I am of the Bride of Christ for eternity. Therefore, it is not I who has been speaking to you.

 

[ScottA]

I don't have two Lords - I have one, and his name is Jesus.

Good, then you will hear again what I have told you already.

 

[Bob Estey]

I do, but not because I am a woman of the Corinthian church of 2,000 years ago, but because I am of the Bride of Christ for eternity. Therefore, it is not I who has been speaking to you.

You think the commandments from 2000 years ago don't apply to us? If not, can we just ignore the entire Bible?

 

[ScottA]

You think the commandments from 2000 years ago don't apply to us? If not, can we just ignore the entire Bible?

By your asking, it is obvious YOU ARE JUST TRYING TO MAKE TROUBLE. Do you not know that with the same measure you use, it will be measured to you?

 

[Bob Estey]

By your asking, it is obvious YOU ARE JUST TRYING TO MAKE TROUBLE. Do you not know that with the same measure you use, it will be measured to you?

Trouble? You make it sound to me like what Paul said 2000 years ago doesn't matter any more. I think the Bible is just as relevant today as it was 2000 years ago. However, I don't think Paul carried the same authority as Jesus.

 

[Bob Estey]

By your asking, it is obvious YOU ARE JUST TRYING TO MAKE TROUBLE. Do you not know that with the same measure you use, it will be measured to you?

I guess if I disagree with you, I am causing trouble.

 

[Bob Estey]

By your asking, it is obvious YOU ARE JUST TRYING TO MAKE TROUBLE. Do you not know that with the same measure you use, it will be measured to you?

If you and I had a disagreement, and I accused you of making trouble because you didn't agree with something I said, I would be guilty of bearing false witness against you.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Here's another one for you, Scott:

Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Romans 13:1 RSV

Adolf Hitler ruled over Germany prior to, and during, World War II. He ordered Jews to be killed, did he not? Would we have been required, according to Paul, to carry out those orders?

You ask a good question about would you have been required, according to Paul, to carry out those orders? Of Adolf Hitler? It reminds me of questions like if my husband decided to make meth and become a dealer, would I be required to carry out his orders to be his helper along side him, in subjection to him? If he decided to murder? Steal? Or destroy? Or in the work place of those high up, doing what is wrong are we to be in subjection to them to do as they do, and say as the say?

Was Jesus in subjection to the Pharisees and the religious rulers? Why did He submit even unto the death of the cross? How did He do good, but they did evil in crucifying Him? Did He follow them, and follows their orders to do evil? Did he subject to their ways of devouring (consuming and eating up) the widows house and the fatherless children?

Paul wrote to the Corinthians who asked for proof that Christ speaks in Paul, the Spirit in Paul urged them to do no wrong, to do what is right and to do no evil. Even the Spirit in Paul saying “we will be weak, that you be made strong. This we pray, even you being made complete.” Even though “you say we are as those who fail” “I trust you will know we don’t fail”

I disagree that to believe Paul is to serve two Lords. The Corinthians questioned the Spirit of Christ in Paul. It was the Spirit of God they would say “you don’t serve two Lords” but they did. Hating one and loving the other. They hated their brothers…

Romans concerning being in subjection for there is no power other than that power given of God.

It is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath upon the one who practices evil.

Saul is the one who practiced evil. If you read the Word the reprobate mind is given over to itself to be destroyed. Proverbs and many other verses show “they destroy themselves” following after their own ways and thoughts. When they blasphemy God, hand them over so that they may be taught not to blasphemy God. Not desiring to retain the knowledge of God in their mind, not caring for His thoughts nor His ways…God hands them over to a reprobate mind. (What mind was Hitler of?) even Paul when they boasted over the one who had his fathers wife(going after the law), their getting drunk off of a brothers weakness—Paul changed it to all of them should put away the “evil one”. Their own flesh walk. We think or say it’s evil people and we are good people—but the “evil one” is in us and handed over for “the evil ones” destruction, yet God called it good that the flesh decreases, that the Spirit of God where “a New Creature” is given unto you be increased. John said the same “I must decreased. He must increase.”

Point is… “the evil one” which is condemned whom wrath comes upon on the one that practices evil …in Paul’s case that “evil one” was Saul who practiced evil. Being in Subjection to God can look like Saul destroyed and condemned and done away with —where He (the sword) is a minister unto you for good if you do what is right … it to this end that in the decrease or demise of Saul, there is Praise in God and for God on the one who does good which is Paul saying “not I but Christ lives in Me.”

We all have that “evil one” where being in subjection to God, the evil one is removed, put off, cast out, crucified in Christ. It speaks of putting off and away that reprobate mind you once walked in, fulfilling your own lust.

Even in 1 Peter 3:6 where Sarah obeyed Abraham…the last part is you are her children IF you do good and do not fear anything frightening. Other translations is to not be shaken by their terror. This was Paul (whom Christ speaks in) not shaken by their terror. Romans begins with the same “terror” only to and upon the one who should be very afraid(if you do what is wrong), for the sword is only yielded upon those, the “evil one” who does wrong, doing not not what is right.

2 Corinthians 5:11 speaks of the terror of the Lord …Paul urged repeatedly “do what is good, do what is right” that which is outward is condemned and passing away —but if any man is in Christ, He is a New Creature. Old things have passed away. Be in subjection if necessary? Would Christ have became Hitlers right hand man? Did Christ becomes Saul’s right hand man and take those captives seeking God? instead, “Saul, Saul why do you persecute Me?” It all goes to what is the terror of the Lord? It’s on the “wicked one”, (though our outward man perishes, the inward man is renewed daily) be not afraid when terror comes. even, If for a season you must need to suffer Tribulation and a season of heaviness, be not afraid but Hope that your praise may be found to be in God and not of men. Put off the old man.

 

[ScottA]

Trouble? You make it sound to me like what Paul said 2000 years ago doesn't matter any more. I think the Bible is just as relevant today as it was 2000 years ago. However, I don't think Paul carried the same authority as Jesus.

Not irrelevant, but rather that (as I said) there is two completely different messages, one to the local/historic issue during that time, and more importantly the commandment to the Bride of Christ to be silent to allow the Spirit to be heard. Which now applies not only to women in the church, but to every member of the church/body/Bride equally (men and women alike).

 

[ScottA]

I guess if I disagree with you, I am causing trouble.

No, but rather as you are again doing here, you reply with baiting, as if unbelieving and also intent to upset the line of truth as given.

 

[Bob Estey]

No, but rather as you are again doing here, you reply with baiting, as if unbelieving and also intent to upset the line of truth as given.

I'm not baiting at all. I am pointing to what appears to be a flaw in your argument. You say the entire Bible is the Word of God, but the Bible says women can't speak in a church, and you don't endorse that.

 

[ScottA]

If you and I had a disagreement, and I accused you of making trouble because you didn't agree with something I said, I would be guilty of bearing false witness against you.

Such is the Law in the hands of men. Even so, you are correct--except when taken up against the truth from God. Which men, even Godly men, often reject.