Is it possible to be SCRIPTURALLY CORRECT AND NOT BE SPIRITUALLY CORRECT?

[Bob Estey]

Thirteen books of the New Testament are by him.

They don't believe 13 new testament books?

These are: Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 and 2 Thessalonians, 1 and 2 Timothy, Titus, and Philemon.

I believe in Jesus (and God), no one else.

 

[Triumph1300]

Thirteen books of the New Testament are by him.

They don't believe 13 new testament books?

These are: Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 and 2 Thessalonians, 1 and 2 Timothy, Titus, and Philemon.

I believe in Jesus (and God), no one else.

Well, Paul is not the Saviour. We all know that.
So, you disregard the 13 books written by Paul (under inspiration of the Holy Spirit.)?

 

[ScottA]

So when Paul makes a statement, I would take it at face value.

"Face value" is only what is visible, but that which is spirit, as God is spirit, is not.

 

[Bob Estey]

Well, Paul is not the Saviour. We all know that.
So, you disregard the 13 books written by Paul (under inspiration of the Holy Spirit.)?

The fact that I believe in Jesus and God, and no one else, doesn't mean I disregard Paul's letters. I've found them to be helpful.

 

[Bob Estey]

"Face value" is only what is visible, but that which is spirit, as God is spirit, is not.

But using that argument, we could rewrite the Bible any way we choose, couldn't we?

 

[ScottA]

But using that argument, we could rewrite the Bible any way we choose, couldn't we?

Yes, and that is why we were told to be silent in church, so that the only translation and explanation is by the Spirit.

 

[Triumph1300]

I've found them to be helpful.

But not helpful enough to follow the writers instructions for the church today.
Small wonder the church is in so much trouble these days.

So, when Paul writes the Epistle of Paul to Titus about the functions of elders, etc etc in the Church,
you consider that "helpful information," but not absolutely something "we should follow today
.

When this is the opinion in most churches today, it comes as no surprise many churches are messed up.

 

[Bob Estey]

Yes, and that is why we were told to be silent in church, so that the only translation and explanation is by the Spirit.

Only women were told to be silent in the church buildings.

 

[Bob Estey]

But not helpful enough to follow the writers instructions for the church today.
Small wonder the church is in so much trouble these days.

So, when Paul writes the Epistle of Paul to Titus about the functions of elders, etc etc in the Church,
you consider that "helpful information," but not absolutely something "we should follow today
.

When this is the opinion in most churches today, it comes as no surprise many churches are messed up.

I think Paul was incorrect to say women can't speak when they are in a church.

 

[ScottA]

Only women were told to be silent in the church buildings.

Is the "bride" of Christ not depicted as a "woman", and is the greater context not the "church"...which is depicted as a "bride?"

Put it together Bob. Or don't. But, "He who has an ear let him hear."

 

[Bob Estey]

Is the "bride" of Christ not depicted as a "woman", and is the greater context not the "church"...which is depicted as a "bride?"

Put it together Bob. Or don't. But, "He who has an ear let him hear."

Paul is very clear. He says women aren't allowed to talk in a church.

[33] For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
[34] the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says.
[35] If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. 1 Cor 14:33-37 RSV

I don't know how a church can function if women aren't allowed to speak in a church.

 

[Bob Estey]

Is the "bride" of Christ not depicted as a "woman", and is the greater context not the "church"...which is depicted as a "bride?"

Put it together Bob. Or don't. But, "He who has an ear let him hear."

Here's another one for you, Scott:

Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Romans 13:1 RSV

Adolf Hitler ruled over Germany prior to, and during, World War II. He ordered Jews to be killed, did he not? Would we have been required, according to Paul, to carry out those orders?

 

[ScottA]

I don't know how a church can function if women aren't allowed to speak in a church.

You are missing the point.

The passage addresses 2 different issues:

1. Paul was addressing a local issue of that time of women disturbing church by talking too much. And;
2. God by the Spirit (evident by the greater context of previous passages directed to the church in general) directing the bride of Christ to be silent, as not to talk over the Spirit.

Neither of which is saying that women aren't ever allowed to speak in church.

 

[ScottA]

Here's another one for you, Scott:

Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Romans 13:1 RSV

Adolf Hitler ruled over Germany prior to, and during, World War II. He ordered Jews to be killed, did he not? Would we have been required, according to Paul, to carry out those orders?

Again, you are missing the point.

God has often allowed his people to be attacked by his own judgment. But that has nothing to do with good people fighting against evil. In fact, the one historic event was for two completely different purposes: 1) as reprimand against the Jews; and 2) that the good men of the church should stand against evil among the nations.

 

[Bob Estey]

You are missing the point.

The passage addresses 2 different issues:

1. Paul was addressing a local issue of that time of women disturbing church by talking too much. And;
2. God by the Spirit (evident by the greater context of previous passages directed to the church in general) directing the bride of Christ to be silent, as not to talk over the Spirit.

Neither of which is saying that women aren't ever allowed to speak in church.

I believe you need to take Paul at face value. He made it clear women aren't supposed to speak in a church.

 

[Bob Estey]

Again, you are missing the point.

God has often allowed his people to be attacked by his own judgment. But that has nothing to do with good people fighting against evil. In fact, the one historic event was for two completely different purposes: 1) as reprimand against the Jews; and 2) that the good men of the church should stand against evil among the nations.

Again, I think we need to take Paul at face value. The difference between you and me is that I think Paul made a mistake once in a while, and you think that is impossible.

 

[ScottA]

I believe you need to take Paul at face value. He made it clear women aren't supposed to speak in a church.

You believe what you want.

As for me, I believe what Paul wrote by the Spirit in him for the Corinthian church, and also what the Spirit said to "all" churches.

 

[ScottA]

Again, I think we need to take Paul at face value. The difference between you and me is that I think Paul made a mistake once in a while, and you think that is impossible.

What you "think" is according to your own understanding, for to speak against Paul, is to speak against Him who sent him.

 

[Bob Estey]

You believe what you want.

As for me, I believe what Paul wrote by the Spirit in him for the Corinthian church, and also what the Spirit said to "all" churches.

Paul said women can't speak in a church. If that is the Word of God, then I'm sure you discourage women from speaking when they are in your church.

 

[Bob Estey]

What you "think" is according to your own understanding, for to speak against Paul, is to speak against Him who sent him.

I follow Jesus, not Paul.