Indisputable proof that the Premillennial theory contradicts Scripture

[Eternally Grateful]

Then your affirmative answers forbid Premil. I agree! It is a false teaching. Zechariah 14 refers to the 1st Advent. You have nothing to corroborate Premil.

No they do not

And when did jesus rule in jerusalem. so that all the gentile nations would have to come to jerusalem. and if they failed. he kept rain from them? especially since when Jesus left. Jerusalem was under the hand of rome. until it was totally destroyed in AD 70 just like Jesus prophesied it would be

please give me examples.

and you did not answer the other questions. can you?

 

[amigo de christo]

The answer is obviously no. So, what is your point in asking this question?

The point being made about the possibility of future animal sacrifices being reinstated is that it's not possible because animal sacrifices, which were part of the old covenant, were made obsolete long ago already (Hebrews 8:6-13, Hebrews 10:1-12).

most people have ZERO idea why the law was even brought in , in the first place .
WHY was the law given to israel .
DUE TO TRANGRESSIONS . GOD had called them out
and in order to be amongst them , WITHOUT destroying them , well blood of animals was gonna have to keep them covered
UNTIL . YEAH I SAID until the VERY PROMISE would come . THE BLOOD of HE who was spotless
which would cleanse even the inner man , to create unto GOD a peoples who would LOVE HIM
The law as added DUE TO trangressions . And without the shedding of blood THERE IS NO REMISSION .
They had many laws for cleansing the flesh . laws for sins of ignorance
Did you know they even had to sacrifce for sins of ignorance . GOD cannot be in the presence of wickedness at all .
BUT HE had called them to be HIS people . The law was given to them
to ensure their own safety . to do what was necessary to rid evil as to pertains to the flesh .
No flesh can dwell with GOD , no man . The law was added because of trangression . GOD kept his own people safe
by HIS OWN law and its blood offereings . TILL the promise that was always to come would come .
THEN it would be written upon the hearts . Now if one sins we have an advocate
no need for animal blood , JUST repent and confess . i hope this makes sense my friend .
The BLOOD OF THE SPOTLESS LAMB OF GOD can and do cleanse even the inner man .

 

[WPM]

No they do not

And when did jesus rule in jerusalem. so that all the gentile nations would have to come to jerusalem. and if they failed. he kept rain from them? especially since when Jesus left. Jerusalem was under the hand of rome. until it was totally destroyed in AD 70 just like Jesus prophesied it would be

please give me examples.

and you did not answer the other questions. can you?

Yes. You admitted it. Are you now going back on your answers?

The day of the Lord “will come” suddenly “as a thief in the night; in which”:

The heavens shall pass away / perish with a great noise.
The elements shall be ‘loosed by being set on fire’,
The earth shall be ‘burned up utterly / consumed wholly.
The works that are within the earth shall be ‘burned up utterly / consumed wholly.

This destroys Premil. Your doctrine cannot happen. You run to the OT and twist a text to refute the obvious.

 

[amigo de christo]

The answer is obviously no. So, what is your point in asking this question?

The point being made about the possibility of future animal sacrifices being reinstated is that it's not possible because animal sacrifices, which were part of the old covenant, were made obsolete long ago already (Hebrews 8:6-13, Hebrews 10:1-12).

BINGO .
and yet did you know we have many amongst us
who even Beleive that this system will be set up again . THEY actually believe
that once even when we are gone from this world and in the millinelial reign
GOD GONNA return to animal sacrfice . NUMBER ONE
THAT AINT EVER GONNA HAPPEN .
Number two , once we are with HIM , this old flesh is gone .
WHY WOULD WE EVEN NEED to return to sacrfice . These people are lost my friend . lost .
i even heard some teaching that near the end of the thousand years
WHEN satan is released , HE EVEN TEMPTS US . they got zero idea my freind .
all this dispenstational this or that has them clue less .
THERE IS ONLY ONE COMING . on that day THE UNBELIEVER GOES UNDER WRATH .
WE BE WITH HIM . new bodies . forever free with the LORD .
TILL THEN we gots a die daily fight . And its only gonna get worse in this world and fast too .

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

most people have ZERO idea why the law was even brought in , in the first place .
WHY was the law given to israel .
DUE TO TRANGRESSIONS . GOD had called them out
and in order to be amongst them , WITHOUT destroying them , well blood of animals was gonna have to keep them covered
UNTIL . YEAH I SAID until the VERY PROMISE would come . THE BLOOD of HE who was spotless
which would cleanse even the inner man , to create unto GOD a peoples who would LOVE HIM
The law as added DUE TO trangressions . And without the shedding of blood THERE IS NO REMISSION .
They had many laws for cleansing the flesh . laws for sins of ignorance
Did you know they even had to sacrifce for sins of ignorance . GOD cannot be in the presence of wickedness at all .
BUT HE had called them to be HIS people . The law was given to them
to ensure their own safety . to do what was necessary to rid evil as to pertains to the flesh .
No flesh can dwell with GOD , no man . The law was added because of trangression . GOD kept his own people safe
by HIS OWN law and its blood offereings . TILL the promise that was always to come would come .
THEN it would be written upon the hearts . Now if one sins we have an advocate
no need for animal blood , JUST repent and confess . i hope this makes sense my friend .
The BLOOD OF THE SPOTLESS LAMB OF GOD can and do cleanse even the inner man .

Yes, it makes sense, because you're basically just saying what is taught in Hebrews 8-10.

 

[Scott Downey]

Yes. You admitted it. Are you now going back on your answers?

The day of the Lord “will come” suddenly “as a thief in the night; in which”:

The heavens shall pass away / perish with a great noise.
The elements shall be ‘loosed by being set on fire’,
The earth shall be ‘burned up utterly / consumed wholly.
The works that are within the earth shall be ‘burned up utterly / consumed wholly.

This destroys Premil. Your doctrine cannot happen. You run to the OT and twist a text to refute the obvious.

People still won't see how convoluted and contrived their supposed doctrines of truths are when compared by scripture.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

BINGO .
and yet did you know we have many amongst us
who even Beleive that this system will be set up again . THEY actually believe
that once even when we are gone from this world and in the millinelial reign
GOD GONNA return to animal sacrfice .

Yes, I'm well aware of that and it makes me sick. They should know better. It's an insult to Christ's once for all sacrifice to believe that animal sacrifices, which He made obsolete with His sacrifice, would ever be reinstated.

NUMBER ONE
THAT AINT EVER GONNA HAPPEN

You got that right. Ain't. Ever. Gonna. Happen. Period.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

People still won't see how convoluted and contrived their supposed doctrines of truths are when compared by scripture.

And that is because these things are spiritually discerned and can't be understood from the natural man (human wisdom) or carnal perspective that they have (1 Corinthians 2:9-16). They are still just sipping the milk of scripture instead of eating the solid food (1 Corinthians 3:1-3).

 

[KUWN]

You're not proving anything here apart from your own opinion.

Just to clarify something you said, both of you have different interpretation methods. That is why you come to different conclusions. What needs to be argued is which Interpretation Method you use. You need to settle that before you start interpreting the text.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes. You admitted it. Are you now going back on your answers?

No.. I admitted they would literally take place.. They will

The day of the Lord “will come” suddenly “as a thief in the night; in which”:

The heavens shall pass away / perish with a great noise.
The elements shall be ‘loosed by being set on fire’,
The earth shall be ‘burned up utterly / consumed wholly.
The works that are within the earth shall be ‘burned up utterly / consumed wholly.

This destroys Premil. Your doctrine cannot happen. You run to the OT and twist a text to refute the obvious.

No. this happens at the end, after the 1000 years are done, after satan is loosed. after the final rebellion. after jesus puts down that rbellion.

21 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away.

which Peter mentioned in 2 Peter 3.

2 peter 3: 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be [d]burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Now are you going to give me examples that show the OT prophecies I showed literally came true?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

People still won't see how convoluted and contrived their supposed doctrines of truths are when compared by scripture.

Can you show me where those things literally came true?

I just proved my doctrine about the earth passing away in my last post.. Happens AFTER the events of Gods reign and AFTER things which have not yet happened. yet you all say have already happened.

show evidence of those things

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Just to clarify something you said, both of you have different interpretation methods. That is why you come to different conclusions. What needs to be argued is which Interpretation Method you use. You need to settle that before you start interpreting the text.

the discussion is the literal interpretation.

we both interpret it literally

WHEN the things happen is what we disagree on.

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes, it makes sense, because you're basically just saying what is taught in Hebrews 8-10.

Its an all out war for the souls of men and many are running to the wrong god and wrong jesus .
Its bible time in the house . Forward march .

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No they do not

Why not? Explain how your answers to his questions support Premill. You answered yes to all of these questions.

Do you believe that Christ is literally coming suddenly and unexpectedly "as a thief in the night" as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:2 and 2 Peter 3:10)?

Do you believe that the wicked will literally experience "sudden destruction" from His appearance as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:3)?

Do you believe that the wicked literally "shall not escape" as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:3)?

Here are the passages that were referenced that you say you agree should be taken literally and you agree that they relate to Christ literally coming suddenly and unexpectedly as a thief in the night.

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

With the understanding that these passages are talking about when Jesus literally comes suddenly and unexpectedly as a thief in the night, how do you conclude that these passages support Premill? You agreed that the wicked will literally experience "sudden destruction" from which they literally "shall not escape" when Jesus comes, right? And what will be the cause of that "sudden destruction" from which "they shall not escape"? Fire, according to Peter. Fire that will burn up the earth. So, tell me who exactly are the mortals that you think will populate a supposed future earthly millennial kingdom after the earth is burned up at Christ's coming resulting in the "sudden destruction" of the wicked from which "they shall not escape"?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No. this happens at the end, after the 1000 years are done, after satan is loosed. after the final rebellion. after jesus puts down that rbellion.

21 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away.

which Peter mentioned in 2 Peter 3.

2 peter 3: 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be [d]burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Now are you going to give me examples that show the OT prophecies I showed literally came true?

Wait a minute here. Hold on. You're missing a lot here. Remember, Paul also wrote about the day of the Lord coming as a thief in the night. You said yes to these questions:

Do you believe that the wicked will literally experience "sudden destruction" from His appearance as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:3)?
Do you believe that the wicked literally "shall not escape" as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:3)?

You agreed that the "sudden destruction" from which "they shall not escape" is literal and will occur when Jesus comes as a thief in the night, right? So, how are you then concluding that the destruction described by Peter as occurring when Jesus comes as as a thief in the night does not occur when He comes, but instead occurs 1,000+ years later? That makes no sense. Peter was talking about the same event as Paul did nd not about an event that would occur 1,000+ years later than the one Paul wrote about. That's undeniable. There won't be two days of the Lord that come as a thief in the night. So, why would you not acknowledge that the cause of the "sudden destruction" from which "they shall not escape" when Jesus comes will be fire coming down on the entire earth? Why would you try to act as if 1 Thess 5:2-3 and 2 Peter 3:10-12 are not about the same event when they so clearly are about the same event, namely the coming of Christ as a thief in the night?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No. this happens at the end, after the 1000 years are done, after satan is loosed. after the final rebellion. after jesus puts down that rbellion.

21 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away.

which Peter mentioned in 2 Peter 3.

2 peter 3: 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be [d]burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Now are you going to give me examples that show the OT prophecies I showed literally came true?

Look at 2 Peter 3:13 more carefully. It says we look for new heavens and a new earth, but according to what? His promise. What promise? This one...

2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation....9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

So, since we look for new heavens and a new earth in fulfillment of the promise of His second coming, why are you instead looking for an earthly millennial kingdom in fulfillment of the promise of His second coming?

 

[amigo de christo]

Why not? Explain how your answers to his questions support Premill. You answered yes to all of these questions.

Do you believe that Christ is literally coming suddenly and unexpectedly "as a thief in the night" as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:2 and 2 Peter 3:10)?

Do you believe that the wicked will literally experience "sudden destruction" from His appearance as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:3)?

Do you believe that the wicked literally "shall not escape" as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:3)?

Here are the passages that were referenced that you say you agree should be taken literally and you agree that they relate to Christ literally coming suddenly and unexpectedly as a thief in the night.

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

With the understanding that these passages are talking about when Jesus literally comes suddenly and unexpectedly as a thief in the night, how do you conclude that these passages support Premill? You agreed that the wicked will literally experience "sudden destruction" from which they literally "shall not escape" when Jesus comes, right? And what will be the cause of that "sudden destruction" from which "they shall not escape"? Fire, according to Peter. Fire that will burn up the earth. So, tell me who exactly are the mortals that you think will populate a supposed future earthly millennial kingdom after the earth is burned up at Christ's coming resulting in the "sudden destruction" of the wicked from which "they shall not escape"?

Look around my friend . underguise of a false love
inquity has skyrocketed . interfaith which is of anti christ
is now merging the religoins and all under the idea this is how we shall attain world peace n safety .
THEN GO back and look at chapter five in first thess again .
For when they shall say peace n safety . SUDDEN destruction . OH HIS COMING is indeed nigh
Times running out and many are embracing a delusion they think is love and yet IT WILL USHER only SUDDEN destruction upon them all .

 

[CadyandZoe]

LOL. Translation: You don't know how to interpret Malachi 4:1, but, despite that, you somehow know that someone's else's interpretation is not correct. It doesn't matter that you can't explain why. It just is. That's a really convincing argument.

I believe that WPM's interpretation is flawed because it diverges from the true intentions of the author. My reasoning lies in the fact that WPM struggles to grasp the nuances and context that the author intended to convey. This misalignment suggests a fundamental disconnect between the author's message and the way it was interpreted, which I will further elaborate on.

Malachi addresses his community about their diminishing spiritual fervor and the consequences that this may have for their future as a people. He emphasizes the importance of personal and communal faithfulness, urging them to recognize the spiritual void that has developed among them. It is essential to note that his observations and warnings are specific to his own people and their relationship with God, and it would be a misinterpretation to extend his remarks to suggest a universal spiritual crisis affecting the entire world. Malachi's message serves as a poignant reminder for his audience to reflect on their spiritual state and to reclaim their devotion and connection to their faith.

Go ahead. Discouraged by who? Not me. Go for it. That would be much better than just claiming something without providing any evidence to back up your claim.

So, in your view, you are willing to excuse WPM when he quotes a verse out of context without proof? Typical.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Amils take it literal. You do not, because, it forbids your doctrine.

Amils spiritualize verses that don't fit their doctrine, and they don't think the OT profits know what they were saying.

 

[CadyandZoe]

BINGO .
and yet did you know we have many amongst us
who even Beleive that this system will be set up again .

I believe that the scriptures indicate that sacrifices will be performed again, but not for the reasons one might imagine.