Indisputable proof that the Premillennial theory contradicts Scripture

[Eternally Grateful]

Where in Revelation 19 does it say that there are "so many dead the birds feed on their flesh for a whole year"? Where does it show survivors?

21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

I may have been wrong about the year. i can not find it now. i will keep looking

if the birds are feeding on their flesh, then it shows the earth is still here.

The survivors enter the kingdom and will have Jesus ruling them 1000 years (chapter 20 which follows chapter 19) then at the end, Satan is released one more time and gathers another army, THEN the end happens.

Jesus said in matt whoever endures to the end will be saved. this is the end Jesus spoke of. these are your survivors.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You're not proving anything here apart from your own opinion.

stawman, I guess you have nothing else?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

God is not restarting animal sacrifices for sin.

who said God restarted them? I believe Israel restarts them..

Again, there can be no Abomination of desolation in the holy pace UNLESS there is a Holy place and sacrifices given.

So how can Ezekiel 43 be God's plan for a future 3rd temple? When you read it clearly says God is telling Israel what to do. It must be for and in the past. Ezekiel had just seen the first temple (Solomons) destroyed when he had this vision. And the second temple was then built later on.

Ezekiel 43

Consecrating the Altar​

18 And He said to me, “Son of man, thus says the Lord God: ‘These are the ordinances for the altar on the day when it is made, for sacrificing burnt offerings on it, and for sprinkling blood on it. 19 You shall give a young bull for a sin offering to the priests, the Levites, who are of the seed of Zadok, who approach Me to minister to Me,’ says the Lord God.

Hey, take prophecy as written.

You ask God why he said things will happen. it is not for me to question God.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

I may have been wrong about the year. i can not find it now. i will keep looking

Maybe you should stop making claims without looking at the text first.

if the birds are feeding on their flesh, then it shows the earth is still here.

Do you take everything written in Revelation 19 literally, including the sword coming out of Christ's mouth? Do you take other scripture into account, such as 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 and 2 Peter 3:10-12 which indicate that the literal way that Christ will destroy His enemies is by fire? It's not being any more literal when it talks about birds feeding on their flesh than it is about Jesus slaying them with a literal sword coming out of His mouth. You need to differentiate between literal and symbolic text so that you don't cause contradictions in scripture.

 

[Scott Downey]

who said God restarted them? I believe Israel restarts them..

Again, there can be no Abomination of desolation in the holy pace UNLESS there is a Holy place and sacrifices given.

Hey, take prophecy as written.

You ask God why he said things will happen. it is not for me to question God.

Ezekiel 43
v19 is a commandment

You shall give a young bull for a sin offering to the priests, the Levites, who are of the seed of Zadok, who approach Me to minister to Me,’ says the Lord God.

Then God says when you do that you will be acceptable to ME.

27 When these days are over it shall be, on the eighth day and thereafter, that the priests shall offer your burnt offerings and your peace offerings on the altar; and I will accept you,’ says the Lord God.”

You don't want to face the implications here of how your read scripture.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Just tell us exactly how you interpret the verse instead of just being vague like this.

You missed the point entirely. If I were to explain the meaning of the verse you mentioned, especially in a context that is separate from the book of Malachi itself, I would be falling into the very pattern of behavior that I often critique in others. It’s important to interpret scripture within its own framework and to avoid imposing external interpretations that may divert from the original message and intent of the text.

I can take the time to explain how the verse helps Malachi make the point he intends to make, but my post would be overly lengthy, which is discouraged.

 

[Scott Downey]

John 10 is a good example the says scripture cannot be broken. But what is broken is man's understanding of scripture.
Which the Ezekiel temple easily demonstrates, when because while it is written a certain way, some people therefore insist animal sacrifices for sin God will begin again, and that is why there will be a 3rd temple as God ordains it so, but it is NOT TRUE.

Renewed Efforts to Stone Jesus​

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”

33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods” ’?

35 If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),

36 do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and [f]believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.” 39 Therefore they sought again to seize Him, but He escaped out of their hand.

 

[CadyandZoe]

This is all noise. It proves nothing. Where is your evidence?

If you don't agree with me on that one issue, then you wouldn't recognize evidence when presented to you. The arguments presented as proof often lack validity because they rely on taking verses out of their broader context. This selective interpretation can distort the original meaning and intent of the text, leading to misleading conclusions. True evidence should be based on a comprehensive understanding of the material, considering the surrounding context and the overall message rather than isolating specific phrases or statements.

It is important to recognize that the authors of the Old Testament possessed a significant understanding of the concepts and themes they were addressing in their writings. One should not hastily conclude that these writers were unaware of the deeper meanings or implications of their texts. They crafted their messages with intention and insight, reflecting the cultural, historical, and theological contexts of their time.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You missed the point entirely. If I were to explain the meaning of the verse you mentioned, especially in a context that is separate from the book of Malachi itself, I would be falling into the very pattern of behavior that I often critique in others. It’s important to interpret scripture within its own framework and to avoid imposing external interpretations that may divert from the original message and intent of the text.

LOL. Translation: You don't know how to interpret Malachi 4:1, but, despite that, you somehow know that someone's else's interpretation is not correct. It doesn't matter that you can't explain why. It just is. That's a really convincing argument.

I can take the time to explain how the verse helps Malachi make the point he intends to make, but my post would be overly lengthy, which is discouraged.

Go ahead. Discouraged by who? Not me. Go for it. That would be much better than just claiming something without providing any evidence to back up your claim.

 

[WPM]

who said God restarted them? I believe Israel restarts them..

Again, there can be no Abomination of desolation in the holy pace UNLESS there is a Holy place and sacrifices given.

Hey, take prophecy as written.

You ask God why he said things will happen. it is not for me to question God.

In your theology, God is instituting these old covenant blood sacrifices again during your supposed future millennium. Your support is from Ezekiel 40-48.

 

[WPM]

If you don't agree with me on that one issue, then you wouldn't recognize evidence when presented to you. The arguments presented as proof often lack validity because they rely on taking verses out of their broader context. This selective interpretation can distort the original meaning and intent of the text, leading to misleading conclusions. True evidence should be based on a comprehensive understanding of the material, considering the surrounding context and the overall message rather than isolating specific phrases or statements.

It is important to recognize that the authors of the Old Testament possessed a significant understanding of the concepts and themes they were addressing in their writings. One should not hastily conclude that these writers were unaware of the deeper meanings or implications of their texts. They crafted their messages with intention and insight, reflecting the cultural, historical, and theological contexts of their time.

Amils take it literal. You do not, because, it forbids your doctrine.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Ezekiel 43
v19 is a commandment

You shall give a young bull for a sin offering to the priests, the Levites, who are of the seed of Zadok, who approach Me to minister to Me,’ says the Lord God.

Then God says when you do that you will be acceptable to ME.

27 When these days are over it shall be, on the eighth day and thereafter, that the priests shall offer your burnt offerings and your peace offerings on the altar; and I will accept you,’ says the Lord God.”

You don't want to face the implications here of how your read scripture.

Has the blood of bulls and goats ever taken away sin?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

John 10 is a good example the says scripture cannot be broken. But what is broken is man's understanding of scripture.
Which the Ezekiel temple easily demonstrates, when because while it is written a certain way, some people therefore insist animal sacrifices for sin God will begin again, and that is why there will be a 3rd temple as God ordains it so, but it is NOT TRUE.

Renewed Efforts to Stone Jesus​

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”

33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods” ’?

35 If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),

36 do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and [f]believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.” 39 Therefore they sought again to seize Him, but He escaped out of their hand.

Yes, You are a perfect example. Your understanding of prophetic language and what God said will happen and when is broken

 

[Eternally Grateful]

In your theology, God is instituting these old covenant blood sacrifices again during your supposed future millennium. Your support is from Ezekiel 40-48.

I will ask you the same

has the blood of bulls and goats ever taken away sin?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Amils take it literal. You do not, because, it forbids your doctrine.

Amils take MOST prophecy spiritual. Not literal.

so seeing you try to attack someone as taking something literal is laughable

I guess if it fits your belief we take it literal. if not. then we symbolize it like @Scott Downey is doing?

 

[WPM]

Amils take MOST prophecy spiritual. Not literal.

so seeing you try to attack someone as taking something literal is laughable

I guess if it fits your belief we take it literal. if not. then we symbolize it like @Scott Downey is doing?

Let us put your claims to the test:

1. Do you believe that Christ is literally coming suddenly and unexpectedly "as a thief in the night" as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:2 and 2 Peter 3:10)?
2. Do you believe that the wicked will literally experience "sudden destruction" from His appearance as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:3)?
3. Do you believe that the wicked literally "shall not escape" as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:3)?
4. Do you believe that "the heavens shall pass away with a great noise" literally when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:10)?
5. Do you believe that "the elements shall melt with fervent heat" literally when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:10 & 12)?
6. Do you believe that "the earth also ... shall be burned up" literally when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:10)?
7. Do you believe that "the works that are therein [the earth] shall be burned up" literally when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:10)?
8. Do you believe that the righteous are actually looking "for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness” literally when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:13)?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Amils take MOST prophecy spiritual. Not literal.

That's a false claim. We interpret literal prophecies literally and figurative prophecies figuratively without making any assumptions about any given prophecy. Did you not read my post #1075 which was addressed to you? I guess I need to post it again.

Amillennialists take many prophecies more literally than Premillennialists do.

Tell me, do you take the following scriptures literally?

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Do you believe that Jesus has all power in heaven and in earth right now? That means He reigns now.

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

This passage indicates that Jesus IS the prince of the kings of the earth now and that His followers are "priests unto God and his Father now. Do you believe that? If so, that should tell you about the timing of Revelation 20. It's not talking about the future when Jesus will begin to reign with His followers being priests, but is talking about how Jesus began to reign after His resurrection at which time His followers had been made priests.

Acts 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

This verse indicates that Christ's resurrection was the first resurrection. You don't take that literally because you say the resurrection of the dead in Christ at His coming is the first resurrection instead.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Do you believe that there is one hour coming when all of the dead will be raised at that same hour, as Jesus indicated, instead of believing that there are two or more hours coming when the dead will be resurrected?

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Do you believe that all of the dead who belong to Christ will be resurrected at the same time and that the end when Jesus delivers the kingdom to God the Father will come at that time, as Paul taught?

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Since I've seen that you agree that all of the wicked will be killed when Jesus returns, I would think you would agree that is what Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3? But, can you see that Peter taught the way in which the wicked will all be killed with "sudden destruction" from which "they shall not escape" is by way of fire coming down on the entire earth? So, how can any mortals survive that to populate the future millennial earthly kingdom that you believe in? If you truly take scripture as literally as you think you do, then you would see that there will be no mortals who survive the return of Christ.

Also, in 2 Peter 3:13 Peter says that it is the new heavens and new earth that we are looking forward to in fulfillment of the promise of Jesus's second coming, not an earthly millennial kingdom. So, Amills are the ones who take these scriptures that I referenced above literally and not Premills. And there are plenty of other examples I could give as well.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I will ask you the same

has the blood of bulls and goats ever taken away sin?

The answer is obviously no. So, what is your point in asking this question?

The point being made about the possibility of future animal sacrifices being reinstated is that it's not possible because animal sacrifices, which were part of the old covenant, were made obsolete long ago already (Hebrews 8:6-13, Hebrews 10:1-12).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Let us put your claims to the test:

1. Do you believe that Christ is literally coming suddenly and unexpectedly "as a thief in the night" as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:2 and 2 Peter 3:10)?

Yes

1. Do you believe that the wicked will literally experience "sudden destruction" from His appearance as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:3)?

Yes

1. Do you believe that the wicked literally "shall not escape" as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:3)?

Yes

1. Do you believe that "the heavens shall pass away with a great noise" literally when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:10
2. Do you believe that "the elements shall melt with fervent heat" literally when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:10 & 12)?
   1. Do you believe that "the earth also ... shall be burned up" literally when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:10)?
   2. Do you believe that "the works that are therein [the earth] shall be burned up" literally when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:10)?
   3. Do you believe that the righteous are actually looking "for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness” literally when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:13)?

Yawn

lets put you to the test.

Do you believe there will be a great tribulation that will be so great, If Jesus did not put an end to it. no flesh would survive as in Matt 24.

Do you believe this will occur when Jesus reigns in Jerusalem?

Zechariah 14:17
And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain.

Do you believe the final gentile beast of Daniel will be destroyed at the return of Christ.? (dan 2 and Dan 7)

do you believe both the northern kingdom of Israel and the southern kingdom of Israel will be bound together again, and new life given and they are brought back into their land. were they will have one king and never be separated again as two nations. and no more will they continue in their sin as in Ez 37?

 

[WPM]

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yawn

lets put you to the test.

Do you believe there will be a great tribulation that will be so great, If Jesus did not put an end to it. no flesh would survive as in Matt 24.

Do you believe this will occur when Jesus reigns in Jerusalem?

Zechariah 14:17
And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain.

Do you believe the final gentile beast of Daniel will be destroyed at the return of Christ.? (dan 2 and Dan 7)

do you believe both the northern kingdom of Israel and the southern kingdom of Israel will be bound together again, and new life given and they are brought back into their land. were they will have one king and never be separated again as two nations. and no more will they continue in their sin as in Ez 37?

Then your affirmative answers forbid Premil. I agree! It is a false teaching. Zechariah 14 refers to the 1st Advent. You have nothing to corroborate Premil.