Indisputable proof that the Premillennial theory contradicts Scripture

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CadyandZoe

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I've been giving my reasons, so they shoudn't be a mystery to you if you've actually been reading everything that I've been saying.


It wasn't hidden. The question about Revelation 21:9 in terms of whether "the bride" is a different entity than "the Lamb's wife".


Are you saying "No", to my question which would mean you don't believe the reference to "the bride" in Revelation 21:9 is a reference to a different entity than "the Lamb's wife"? If so, then why are you still trying to differentiate those terms if they are used synonymously in Revelation 21:9?
The Bride metaphor represents a broader context in which the wife plays a part. It encompasses everything God promised to Jesus, not just the promise of a church.
 

WPM

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The point is, if satan's little season happens before the 2nd coming, though I don't agree that it does, yet if it does, having part in the first resurrection, obviously, thus undeniably, proves that no one can be saved during satan's little season. Except you argue that they can. And you use 2 Peter 3, for one, as an argument. Which, BTW, is a good and valid argument. But even so, the fact that the first resurrection contradicts that anyone can be saved during satan's little season, what that should be telling us is this. satan's little season isn't even meaning before the 2nd coming. Now there is no conflict between the first resurrection, satan's little season, and 2 Peter 3:9-10. IOW, per Premil satan's little season has zero to do with anyone being saved during it to begin with.

Even though I said what I said about maybe some Amils don't even believe the first resurrection has anything to do with salvation, why did I say that to begin with, is what you should be asking yourself? Is it because I actually believe some Amils don't? Or could it be because I'm trying to make a point that Amils can't have it both ways? Either the first resurrection is connected with salvation, or it isn't. Not one person having part in the first resurrection can have part in it without living and reigning with Christ a thousand years. No one can possibly still do that during satan's little season, assuming that is when they are initially saved.

If you at least understood my arguments rather than insisting I don't even understand what Amils believe, which is a lie on your part to begin with, maybe we can get somewhere for once.

Read the Op again!
 

WPM

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What is satan's little season mean? In the future, don't use terms that nobody will know. Stick with biblical words so we can all participate in the discussion.
It corresponds with the release of the mystery of iniquity (2 Thess 2) and the release of the demonic band before the last trumpet (Rev 9).
 

Scott Downey

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I guess the idea of Satan's little season is him being unleashed, to work his evil in the final days of these last days.
See Christ bruised Satan's head and defeated Satan with God having given to Christ all authority in Heaven and on Earth. Jesus called Satan the prince of this world, but his power over death Christ now has, Christ has the keys of Hell and Death.

Hebrews 2

Bringing Many Sons to Glory​

10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both He who [g]sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 saying:

“I will declare Your name to My brethren;
In the midst of the assembly I will sing praise to You.”
13 And again:

“I will put My trust in Him.”
And again:

“Here am I and the children whom God has given Me.”
14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For indeed He does not [h]give aid to angels, but He does [i]give aid to the seed of Abraham. 17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being [j]tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.
 

Scott Downey

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17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying [i]to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last.

18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of [j]Hades and of Death.

*****************************************************************************************

Rev 1
12 Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. 14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; 15 His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters; 16 He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength. 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying [i]to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of [j]Hades and of Death. 19 [k]Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this. 20 The [l]mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the [m]angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands [n]which you saw are the seven churches.
 

Scott Downey

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Understand then that Satan has been restrained even until now.
I believe the restrainer is Michael the archangel and Satan is restrained in that 'bottomless pit' until God signals it is time, and God pulls Michael back out of the way, and Satan is unleashed onto the world stage to fulfil the words of the Lord.

2 Thess 2
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of [a]Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of [b]sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits [c]as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the [d]mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only [e]He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.

8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
 

Scott Downey

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Rev 20, the saints are reigning with Christ in heaven even now and for the last 2000 years they have done so.

Millennial reign of a 1000 years is a symbolic period of unknow duration, ( we do not know the day of Christ's return.) and it signifies a long time. Recall Christ's parable of the nobleman going away to a far country for an indeterminate period of time. (which He has)
When the nobleman returns, He judges His servants, handing out rewards and taking some away and slays the wicked who refused His rule over them.

Luke 11, read and you will see how it fits the end.

The Parable of the Minas​

11 Now as they heard these things, He spoke another parable, because He was near Jerusalem and because they thought the kingdom of God would appear immediately. 12 Therefore He said: “A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and to return. 13 So he called ten of his servants, delivered to them ten [e]minas, and said to them, ‘Do business till I come.’ 14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a delegation after him, saying, ‘We will not have this man to reign over us.’

15 “And so it was that when he returned, having received the kingdom, he then commanded these servants, to whom he had given the money, to be called to him, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned ten minas.’ 17 And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant; because you were faithful in a very little, have authority over ten cities.’ 18 And the second came, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned five minas.’ 19 Likewise he said to him, ‘You also be over five cities.’

20 “Then another came, saying, ‘Master, here is your mina, which I have kept put away in a handkerchief. 21 For I feared you, because you are [f]an austere man. You collect what you did not deposit, and reap what you did not sow.’ 22 And he said to him, ‘Out of your own mouth I will judge you, you wicked servant. You knew that I was an austere man, collecting what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow. 23 Why then did you not put my money in the bank, that at my coming I might have collected it with interest?’

24 “And he said to those who stood by, ‘Take the mina from him, and give it to him who has ten minas.’ 25 (But they said to him, ‘Master, he has ten minas.’) 26 ‘For I say to you, that to everyone who has will be given; and from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 27 But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.’ ”

**********************************************************************************

Satan Bound 1,000 Years​

20 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 Years​

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for [a]a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Satanic Rebellion Crushed​

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where[b] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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What is satan's little season mean? In the future, don't use terms that nobody will know. Stick with biblical words so we can all participate in the discussion.
The words "Satan's little season" are biblical words. Have you never read this:

Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

After thinking more about this, I'm wondering if I misunderstood your question. So, let me know if I've misunderstood your question here. I'm wondering if you actually meant to ask him what his understanding of Satan's little season entails and you want him to use scripture to show how he understands it? I realized that's what you may have meant based on his response to you.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Satan is not bound.

How anyone could look at what Happened in Israel on Oct 7, 2 world wars that killed millions, Communism, and socialistic dictatorship nations. and everythign else going on, and think Satan has no control over any of it because he is bound.. well I just do not know what to say.

The word says when Satan is bound, Christ will rule. with a rod of iron. there will be peace. unlike peace this world has ever seen. World order will be restored. the whole world will point to the savior. who reigns.

Then at the end, Satan is released again, and again his influence is seen so that again he gathers his armies to appose God and is defeated for the final time..
 
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Scott Downey

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Satan is not bound.

How anyone could look at what Happened in Israel on Oct 7, 2 world wars that killed millions, Communism, and socialistic dictatorship nations. and everythign else going on, and think Satan has no control over any of it because he is bound.. well I just do not know what to say.

The word says when Satan is bound, Christ will rule. with a rod of iron. there will be peace. unlike peace this world has ever seen. World order will be restored. the whole world will point to the savior. who reigns.

Then at the end, Satan is released again, and again his influence is seen so that again he gathers his armies to appose God and is defeated for the final time..
Satan has helpers.
Satan is bound otherwise he would be doing what is prophesied in 2 Thess 2

The other way to understand bound is restrained, like tied up with cords (binding the strong man).
And that restraint God will remove for a short time and then things will get very bad.
What happens then is called the great tribulation

That guy's goal is to get the whole world to openly worship and follow him. He did the same when tempting Christ.

Revelation is not all literal. It is a vision. We get more literal in the church letters and Jesus's teaching, but he also spoke in Parables!
But privately explained everything to the apostles when they asked Him, as they had been granted to know the truth.

The world does not get a clear truth, it is hidden from them. They did not understand the things Christ spoke to them. And honestly lots of the OT is written in the same ways.


Matthew 13

The Purpose of Parables​

10 And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”

11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the [a]mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:

‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I [b]should heal them.’
16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; 17 for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

Luke 10


Jesus Rejoices in the Spirit​

21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. 22 All[g] things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.

23 Then He turned to His disciples and said privately, “Blessed are the eyes which see the things you see; 24 for I tell you that many prophets and kings have desired to see what you see, and have not seen it, and to hear what you hear, and have not heard it.

It is not according to our will and desire that God grants to us to know and understand, but according to His mercy and will for us and this is of God and not man.

Romans 9

15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.”
 
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Eternally Grateful

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Satan has helpers.
Satan is bound otherwise he would be doing what is prophesied in 2 Thess 2

The other way to understand bound is restrained, like tied up with cords (binding the strong man).
And that restraint God will remove for a short time and then things will get very bad.
What happens then is called the great tribulation

That guy's goal is to get the whole world to openly worship and follow him. He did the same when tempting Christ.

Revelation is not all literal. It is a vision. We get more literal in the church letters and Jesus's teaching, but he also spoke in Parables!
But privately explained everything to the apostles when they asked Him, as they had been granted to know the truth.

The world does not get a clear truth, it is hidden from them. They did not understand the things Christ spoke to them. And honestly lots of the OT is written in the same ways.


Matthew 13

The Purpose of Parables​

10 And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”

11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the [a]mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:

‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I [b]should heal them.’
16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; 17 for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

Luke 10


Jesus Rejoices in the Spirit​

21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. 22 All[g] things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.

23 Then He turned to His disciples and said privately, “Blessed are the eyes which see the things you see; 24 for I tell you that many prophets and kings have desired to see what you see, and have not seen it, and to hear what you hear, and have not heard it.
Satan is not bound

His army will collapse when he is bound. thats why there will be peace on earth. God will restor earth.

If you think this world we live in today is restored. and ruled by Christ. God help us all.. Heaven must not be very peaceful either if God can not keep peace on earth while he rules with a rod of Iron
 

CadyandZoe

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What is satan's little season mean? In the future, don't use terms that nobody will know. Stick with biblical words so we can all participate in the discussion.
Your suspicion is correct. Satan's little season may not be a real thing.
 

Scott Downey

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Satan is not bound

His army will collapse when he is bound. thats why there will be peace on earth. God will restor earth.

If you think this world we live in today is restored. and ruled by Christ. God help us all.. Heaven must not be very peaceful either if God can not keep peace on earth while he rules with a rod of Iron
I don't believe this world has a future, it has a coming end date.
It is corrupted and is passing away.


Luke 12:28
If then God so clothes the grass, which today is in the field and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, how much more will He clothe you, O you of little faith?
 

Scott Downey

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  1. Matthew 5:18
    For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  2. Matthew 24:35
    Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  3. Mark 13:31
    Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  4. Luke 16:17
    And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
 

Scott Downey

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  1. Luke 21:33
    Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  2. 2 Peter 3:10

    The Day of the Lord​

    But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  3. Revelation 21:1

    All Things Made New​

    Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.
 

Eternally Grateful

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I don't believe this world has a future, it has a coming end date.

Well you are allowed to believe what you want.
It is corrupted and is passing away.
Yes. And Jesus will return and restore it for a time, It will be a wonderful time, until the end, when the final rebellion is squashed and this world is destroyed.
Luke 12:28
If then God so clothes the grass, which today is in the field and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, how much more will He clothe you, O you of little faith?
I have faith God keeps his promises.

Please do not sit there and say God will not keep his promises. and then attempt to question my faith
 

Scott Downey

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here we finally agree
Well you are allowed to believe what you want.

Yes. And Jesus will return and restore it for a time, It will be a wonderful time, until the end, when the final rebellion is squashed and this world is destroyed.

I have faith God keeps his promises.

Please do not sit there and say God will not keep his promises. and then attempt to question my faith
Don' t take it so personally. I don't. And I don't see where I have personally questioned your faith. I am telling you what scriptures says that I believe will happen.