Indisputable proof that the Premillennial theory contradicts Scripture
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RLT63
Well-Known Member
Mat 24:15 - When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
dad
Well-Known Member
Nor doubt with the many names of the AC
The covenant in Daniel is confirmed by the AntiChrist
Dan 11:
27 And both of these kings' hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time appointed.
28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.
29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.
30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
From talking about the prototype antichrist (Antiochus Epiphanes) the prophesy launches far into the future and end time. We know that this evil king takes away the daily sacrifices and sets up the abomination of desolation Jesus referred to. That event is the mid point of the last seven years as well as the start of the Great Tribulation.
As just explained the Dan 9 prophesy is talking about the same as above, not the ministry of Jesus etc.
Yes, they will restore those animal sacrifices in the end. The evil king will cause them to stop shortly before the abomination of desolation is revealed in the holy place.
Chapter and verse?
Such as?
dad
Well-Known Member
OK I thought you meant the gospel of Luke.Mat 24:15 - When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Mar 13:14 - But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of byDaniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,)then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
In both those verses it is talking about the middle of the last seven years of man's history before He returns, when the evil king (as outlined in my last post) sets up the abomination of desolation
dad
Well-Known Member
You are conflating the new testament with the league in the end time that the leader breaks
To do that you are ignoring clear prophesies about that evil king of the end breaking an agreement and setting up the abomination etc
dad
Well-Known Member
The one referred to in Dan 11 and 9 that confirms an agreement and breaks it is the AntiChrist. That happens in the last seven years of history before Jesus returns.
dad
Well-Known Member
Masking your ignorance of prophesy and then calling it blasphemy if we do not agree gets you nowhere. Explain how the covenants in Daniel prophesy a few chapters apart are not connected? Explain how Dan 11 is not talking about the end time abomination that Jesus referred to?
Daniel 11 is about Antiochus Epiphanes. It has nothing to do with Daniel 9.
There is not one recognized defender of the true faith in 17 centuries of historical NT Christian orthodoxy who interprets the Daniel 9:27 Covenant Confirmer as anyone other than Christ.
Not one.
Every modernist revisionist dispensationalist promulgates and perpetuates blasphemy in their malinterpretation of the Covenant Confirmer of Daniel 9:27.
Every one.
dad
Well-Known Member
Jesus read a prophesy in the synagogue one time. He stopped mid verse. Why? Because the rest of the verse only applied to His second coming. Prophesy often jumps into the future. From talking about a local person of that day, it can leap to the end time. If you are not aware of this, you should be. From talking about Antiochus Epiphanes the prophesy moves to the end time. You see only a part of the picture.
Your claim that all believers interpreted it that way is not supported.
Jesus. He talked about the abomination Daniel spoke about.
In Dan 9 the prophesy extends to the end when He returns.
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
The prophesy is not sealed up or finished until Jesus rules. Look at Dan 2. Jesus destroys all other kingdoms and rules forever. Man's transgressions are not stopped until then. Righteousness is not brought to the whole world until then. Right now it is only in our hearts in this wicked unrighteous world.
By the way, are you suggesting that the people of Jesus came and destroyed Jerusalem??
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
In what verse does it move to the end time?
In what verse is a covenant confirmed?
Awaiting just one example before the year 1800 where the Covenant Confirmer was claimed to be antichrist.
Just one example.
It extends to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.
Book, chapter, verse?
Fulfilled gloriously, completely, and perfectly at Calvary, not in the undetermined dispen fantasy future.
A seal on a document was and is a sign of authentication. Christ sealed and authenticated OT prophecy by fulfilling what was written of Him.
The various occurrences of the phrase "might be fulfilled" in the NT attest to Christ's seal upon the associated prophecies.
Jesus has been ruling in the hearts of all true believers in Him ever since Calvary.
Verses?
Absolutely.
The people of the prince were the Roman armies, who were the servants and agents of Messiah the Prince, to accomplish His purposes of judgment and desolation upon the apostate nation of Israel.
The pagan Roman commander Titus acknowledged the Divine Intervention in the destruction of Jerusalem:
"We have certainly had God for our assistant in this war, and it was no other than God who ejected the Jews out of these fortifications; for what could the hands of men or any machines do towards overthrowing these towers?" (Wars of the Jews 6.9.1)
The pagan Titus had far greater understanding than today's dispens.
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dad
Well-Known Member
Why debate that point with someone that does not even believe it ever does move to the end time apparently. Certainly by verse 32 it is talking about the end. There are some verses. I would say possibly even back in verse 21. Some of the verses also could be talking about BOTH!
That was not the end of the world and return of Jesus
Luke 4:
15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.
16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
The other part of the sentence said this "2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,//// and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
That would be thousands of years in the future when He returned, not the first coming
Such is prophesy, sometimes mid verse it leaps far ahead in time
There is more to prophesy than what was written about His first coming
Not planet earth though. Not Israel...etc etc
Daniel 2:34
Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
Daniel 2:35
Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
? You think the cruel Romans were His people?
Who cares what he said?? Obviously God allowed it. That does not mean the vile Roman legions were His people. His people are not of that spirit
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Of course not. It was not referring to "the end of the world and return of Jesus".
That would be the forthcoming days of vengeance at the destruction of Jerusalem. (Luke 21:22)
There is more to prophecy than what is claimed to be His second coming.
Messianic Jews disagree with you.
Why did you omit Daniel 2:44?
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
Fulfilled by Christ at His first coming.
You think Messiah couldn't use human instruments to carry out His judgments?
I care. Anyone seeking understanding cares.
dad
Well-Known Member
In Dan 9? I disagree that we now have righteousness in the world. Obviously not until Jesus returns
The days of vengeance are the last years actually. It is also in that last time when the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel will be seen.
Isa 33:8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.
There is more prophesy on the return than the first coming
Flattery will get you nowhere
The kingdom He is setting up will not rule here till He returns, obviously
Yes that does not make them His people!
Romans 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 5:17
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Paul disagrees with you.
Tell Luke.
The reverse is true.
Are you a Messianic Jew?
He set it up in the days of the king(s) of the Roman empire, and He has been ruling in it ever since.
They were His people for the purpose of executing His judgments.
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dad
Well-Known Member
No. Did you miss who he was talking about? Believers. Zero to do with the world. The world hates us and is the enemy of God. The world is not righteous but in wickedness.
No
Baloney. Go to the UN and see where Jesus rules it? Washington? Moscow? Beijing? God does not rule the nations now. He will one day.
No, that is a word game. They are of their father the devil. The whole world lieth in wickedness. The terrorists that starved and raped and mass murdered the people in Jerusalem were not Christians, not His people. No more than Satan is His people! They were the people of the prince that is to come. Just because God may temporarily use a wicked nation does not mean they become His children! No more than God using Satan means Satan is His people.
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