No. It's never okay to steal. (in general)
Would you steal food if your family was starving?
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In BIBLE we trust? - Misplaced allegiance?
- Thread starter St. SteVen
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Would you steal food if your family was starving?
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Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
Would that be necessary? I was encountered by a woman in the parking lot at a Raley's grocery store this morning who asked me for money. I gave her $5.
From my studies a lot of Hebrew words were strongly influenced by ancient Egyptian terms...some weren't but from my sources it was a take off from the term used for Abraham by the Pharaoh of Egypt when he called Abraham the King of the Hebrews....meaning king of the wondering homeless. Because apparently that was what Abraham's household was all about. Taking in the rejects of every society as a last stop. The 318 men trained in fighting to go rescue his nephew Lot and Sodom had to come from somewhere....and it was as big a battle as Gideon would have thought about....they would have been extremely outnumbered...but they fought as if there was nothing to lose...because they literally didn't.
And as for Shem?
Likely he was the messenger of God that told Abraham what to do and where to go. (It's a Hebrewism to ignore the exact messenger but focus on the message) Shem died either 75 years before or after Abraham. I can't remember exactly but someone on this forum might know. So Shem (Noah's son) might have been old...but still kicking.
I love it!poetic... king of the wondering homeless.
Thank you so much for this!!!!!
Part of this is the reason to this day the Jews are hardwired to love their patch of sand in the Middle East....it's their home. It's also the location of the Garden in Eden. (Eden being the total of the Fertile Cresent)
So where people scratch their head over their passion for it....it's not that difficult to figure out.
But to Christians....this world is not our home. We are foreigners in a land not ours.
Another one of those paradox thingies.
When I used to work as a delivery driver, I brought granola bars with me to hand out to the folks on the median with a cardboard sign.
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Is lying a sin? Always?
The harlot Rahab of Jericho lied to the soldiers when she hide the Israelite spies.
She ended up in the lineage of Christ. Interesting.
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Lambano
Well-Known Member
And she gets commended as righteous for her actions by both James and the writer of Hebrews. So, the Bible commend lying under certain circumstances. We had an interesting unit about "mirmah" (Hebrew, מרמה, "deceit") in our Disciple Bible Study class. When is lying not only justified but also the right and moral thing to do?
See also 1 Kings 22:19-23 / 2 Chronicles 18:18-23 if you want to see a little vignette where God Himself explicitly authorized a lying spirit to inspire false prophesies and deceive Israel. Disturbing.
I always felt that it's easier to tell truth so that I don't have to remember which lies I told to which people.
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Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
I don't believe lying is mentioned in the Ten Commandments, other than we are not to bear false witness against each other.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
And this is a point holier-than-thou Christians deny; she was in Christ's lineage, a recognized hero in Hebrews BECAUSE she lied, not despite it.
Ideally, in times of peace and prosperity, lying and stealing are not desirable. Sadly, there are people who are always hurting financially and we are ALWAYS AT WAR with evil.
The midwives lied at the time of Moses. Again, they were blessed BECAUSE they lied, not despite it. Then there is obeying government - when they are right - not under all circumstances as if we cannot discern good from evil. An Angel told Jesus parents to go to Egypt to escape the purge of babies. Moses parents hide him for months for the same reason.
I read just this morning in daily devotional reading of Acts of the Apostles that an Angel arranged a prison break for Peter and John. Holier-than-thou Christians today would argue with the Angel that they must stay in prison because they obey government, no matter how evil it is.
Today's Holier-than-thou Christians would march the Madonna and baby right into Herod's arms in obedience to evil who told them so!
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You mentioned stealing to feed your family. The punishment for this is different than when millions are stolen 'for profit.'
I suppose all this goes to show many Christians do not make a good witness in recognizing divine discernment. Morality is not a simple list of absolute rules but always must be evaluated in context. A vid I watched at a commencement said that war is good. Then he asked if we want God to make peace with evil?
Deception is a powerful tool in war. This is controversial as far as the holier-than-thou Christians are concerned but God himself resorted to lying in the ongoing war with evil. In general, this is why his plans are cloaked, even when revealed. If the Adversary knew Mary was carrying the Messiah, he would have killed them both before Jesus was even born. We must realize this! And then, specifically, there is 1 Kings 22:19-22, where YHWH commands the lying to 400 prophets.
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Then there are "white" lies, enshrined in today's political correctness. To be kind, we don't tell our wife that it is not the shirt that makes her look fat; it is her fat that makes her look fat.
We pretend cultures are all the same, sacrificing truth to multiculturalism, equating those who still enslave today to cultures that fought wars to end slavery! Societies that respect individual liberty and the rule of law to societies that are corrupt and engage in genocide. Nations that promote innovation and prosperity via patent protection to those nations which are content to let their people stagnant on the edge of starvation and abject poverty, hording the nations wealth for its military (Hamas) while its people remain homeless, with no belongings, food or hope. Easier it is to sucummb to coveting, attempt to guilt 'the rich' countries like the US and Israel to donate to socities that are 'victims' of their own moral choices of barbarism over civilization.
It is not an accident that America holds 90% of the world's patents, is the most prosperous in human history with the most powerful military of all time. Sadly, America is in decline, more and more corrupt. But for the sake of not making anyone feel bad, we'll pretend we just got lucky rather than embraced better principles upon which to organize ourselves. Honesty, is the best policy - except when it hurts my feelings.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
That’s true,I give you that....I think we all do it.
One interprets Gods word one way the other their way....then all arguments are let lose.LOL.
I think we need to let God do the talking through his Living seed, the Bible.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Rita,
I must have a woefully bad translation. Can you educate me on what verse says the reason for Creation, the reason why Jesus suffered on the cross was so that we could interpret Gods word one way and others another way to then let loose all kinds of arguments?
My English is not that good. So, it might be worded some other way. And my Greek and Hebrew is not as good as my English. Logic dictates there must be some verse that says something like that because we see and hear such arguments all the time, right?
Wrangler
Behold
Well-Known Member
If you are in the linage of Captain Kidd, does that make you a Pirate.?
If you are in the linage of Hitler, does that make you a Nazi?
Ritajanice
Born-Again
I’ll have to pray about that question...LOL...talk about being put on the spot.Rita,
I must have a woefully bad translation. Can you educate me on what verse says the reason for Creation, the reason why Jesus suffered on the cross was so that we could interpret Gods word one way and others another way to then let loose all kinds of arguments?
My English is not that good. So, it might be worded some other way. And my Greek and Hebrew is not as good as my English. Logic dictates there must be some verse that says something like that because we see and hear such arguments all the time, right?
Wrangler
I do know that if Jesus hadn’t died...then we would never be reconciled back to God....and it ain’t up for debate,LOL.
Seems too many make an idol of their personal interpretation of the Bible.
Claiming theirs is the only truth and that others are "of the devil" because their view differs.
What's wrong with this picture? Misplaced allegiance. Religious fiefdoms.
Building walls, instead of bridges.
- What is the purpose of the Bible?
- Should the Bible be used to cause division?
- Where is your allegiance ultimately?
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Claiming theirs is the only truth and that others are "of the devil" because their view differs.
What's wrong with this picture? Misplaced allegiance. Religious fiefdoms.
Building walls, instead of bridges.
- What is the purpose of the Bible?
- Should the Bible be used to cause division?
- Where is your allegiance ultimately?
[
St. SteVen said:
Seems too many make an idol of their personal interpretation of the Bible.
www.christianityboard.com
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Seems too many make an idol of their personal interpretation of the Bible.
Yes. You are a prime example. Thanks.
Bibliolatry: Worship/knowledge of the book MORE than the author
I have encountered some that I thought had fallen into this trap. I asked them, "What would become of your faith if you put your whole library out on the curb on trash day?" The guilty are left mostly speechless. Or, alternatively VERY angry. How come? To be clear, I love the Bible and use...
www.christianityboard.com
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I'm a prime example of a Bible believer! It's the written Word of God even if you don't like it!St. SteVen said:
Seems too many make an idol of their personal interpretation of the Bible.
Yes. You are a prime example. Thanks.
Bibliolatry: Worship/knowledge of the book MORE than the author
I have encountered some that I thought had fallen into this trap. I asked them, "What would become of your faith if you put your whole library out on the curb on trash day?" The guilty are left mostly speechless. Or, alternatively VERY angry. How come? To be clear, I love the Bible and use...
[
How would you know the very little you do know if there was no bible you certainly wouldn't be here talking about Christ because no one would know or be a Christian.The first four gospels are a witness to Christ for you.Then Paul teaches you the fine details of the faith which was his purpose chosen by Christ .The Gospel is the Good news and what is the Good news that Christ has come salvation is here.The bible holds our faith or you would have none.How do we know God - Jesus.How do we know Jesus - the bible.
It would be like trying to learn math without a teacher or a text book.
It would be like trying to learn math without a teacher or a text book.
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