You just said Paul was sexist.
I quoted him and you brought this up....
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
HERESY?
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I quoted him and you brought this up....
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
Jim B
Well-Known Member
You're joking, right? I never said that Paul was sexist. On the contrary, I wrote that Paul said there is neither male nor female in Christ Jesus. Your distortion of what I wrote is another example of your being close-minded.
It would be a good idea for you to be honest.
I have no problem with a male pastor, but I also believe that women play a vital role. Some guys are fine with degrading women to 2nd class, but look who is teaching their children. Very few male teachers. But when the children grow, it's like (rough voice) "OK, now we'll take over" What is up with that?
Let's we go through these:
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:28
“And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions. And also on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days. Joel 2:28-29 Can I get an amen?
We have the Spirit moving on both, and the OK for women to prophesy.( which also means to elaborate on something by inspiration--not always telling the future)
Here is the man who ministers criteria:
1st Tim 3:2 "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;"
So there is a list of criteria for the man, not just that he is a man
Blameless--good man, not a snotz.
Husband of one wife--ok
Vigilant--protective
sober--thank Goodness
good behavior-- again , not a snotz, not somebody who is sporting his manliness as a reason to rule
given to hospitality--nice, kind
apt to teach --oh, he has to be able to teach, so the Spirit has gifted him with teaching.
And this is important : Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; Eph 5:25
So no guy talking down his wife down . Look at what Jesus did for the Church. He loved it above His life. You don't see that love in men who profess their rulership just because of their manhood.
Let's we go through these:
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:28
“And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions. And also on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days. Joel 2:28-29 Can I get an amen?
We have the Spirit moving on both, and the OK for women to prophesy.( which also means to elaborate on something by inspiration--not always telling the future)
Here is the man who ministers criteria:
1st Tim 3:2 "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;"
So there is a list of criteria for the man, not just that he is a man
Blameless--good man, not a snotz.
Husband of one wife--ok
Vigilant--protective
sober--thank Goodness
good behavior-- again , not a snotz, not somebody who is sporting his manliness as a reason to rule
given to hospitality--nice, kind
apt to teach --oh, he has to be able to teach, so the Spirit has gifted him with teaching.
And this is important : Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; Eph 5:25
So no guy talking down his wife down . Look at what Jesus did for the Church. He loved it above His life. You don't see that love in men who profess their rulership just because of their manhood.
Yeah, the opponents of scripture always distract from the point being discussed.
And they introduce confusion, an alternative POV's, like the devil does.
In Eden he says to Eve has God said?, and God does not want you to eat as he knows it will make you wise like him.
And they sometimes make accusations, to try and make themselves look righteous to deceive others who might be listening. They are also contentious and cause dissensions away from the scriptures.
Your completely contrary to the scripture. Don't you know that in the last days, people will depart from the faith to follow teachings of demons.
Last edited by a moderator:
Jim B
Well-Known Member
I am in complete agreement with Scripture (and I write using correct grammar).
Be very careful whom you accuse of promoting "a doctrine of demons".
You are what you are, be careful in contending for the faith?
How so?
Another characteristic of false teachers, they are so blinded, they can't ever comprehend scriptures, and they twist them many times subtly, other times grievously and obviously, which is what you did...
Now your going on ignore
All I know is one thing, I guess since I served in the military ("chain of command"):
1Co_11:3 But I would have you know, that The Head of every man is Christ;
and the head of the woman is the man; and THE Head of Christ is God.
Unless this is Also HERESY? - Just sayin'...
1Co_11:3 But I would have you know, that The Head of every man is Christ;
and the head of the woman is the man; and THE Head of Christ is God.
Unless this is Also HERESY? - Just sayin'...
Holy Chosen One of God
New Member
Here's some scripture for you.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:28
“And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions. And also on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days. Joel 2:28-29 Can I get an amen?
We have the Spirit moving on both, and the OK for women to prophesy.( which also means to elaborate on something by inspiration--not always telling the future)
you come across as condescending--do you mean to be?
Holy Chosen One of God
New Member
Just joined, and I must say, does scripture mean anything to christian people anymore?, as in all of the scriptures?
Or do you just like ones and dont like others, cause it says in Hebrews. all scripture is God breathed. I dont think some of you think so, or you would not be so casually dismissive.
2 Timothy 3:15-17
15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
And dont tell me you play one scripture off on another, that is really bad stuff to start doing, but that's exactly what I read here from some people.
Or do you just like ones and dont like others, cause it says in Hebrews. all scripture is God breathed. I dont think some of you think so, or you would not be so casually dismissive.
2 Timothy 3:15-17
15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
And dont tell me you play one scripture off on another, that is really bad stuff to start doing, but that's exactly what I read here from some people.
Holy Chosen One of God
New Member
The old timey conservation view on woman is exactly what Paul wrote.
Today people upend tradition but they end up exchanging truth for a lie.
Some traditions can go ok, but not those in scripture.
You know scripture is supposed to be for life and practice of the christian religion.
The church today is abandoning the truths for something that matches the world.
I dont want any part of such a thing, which is why I stopped attending modern type prophesy churches, there is nothing there.
Nothing at all, not God, not christ, nothing but demons spreading lies, and those people love to hear it.
I count myself blessed to have escaped their clutches, their binding soul ties, grave sucking blasphemies.
Like this heresy?, People absolutely love this stuff.
What is grave sucking / grave soaking / mantle grabbing? | GotQuestions.org
Today people upend tradition but they end up exchanging truth for a lie.
Some traditions can go ok, but not those in scripture.
You know scripture is supposed to be for life and practice of the christian religion.
The church today is abandoning the truths for something that matches the world.
I dont want any part of such a thing, which is why I stopped attending modern type prophesy churches, there is nothing there.
Nothing at all, not God, not christ, nothing but demons spreading lies, and those people love to hear it.
I count myself blessed to have escaped their clutches, their binding soul ties, grave sucking blasphemies.
Like this heresy?, People absolutely love this stuff.
What is grave sucking / grave soaking / mantle grabbing? | GotQuestions.org
Holy Chosen One of God
New Member
From Got questions, Paul was a chosen Apostle, he had a job to do. He wrote scripture, ignore Paul at your peril from God, that seems to be an inthing today, to dislike Paul but claim to love Jesus. They dont like the things Paul wrote.
The apostles setup faith and practice of the early church, so Paul writes also that after he is gone, fierce wolves will run havoc and eat up the church from the inside out, seen it in youth groups, wow, have I seen it, false prophecies for the kids from false prophets invited into the church, screaming crying weird stuff happening.
They are no more real apostles, but there are false apostles. My experiences taught me exactly that.
Maybe some false apostle, false prophet, false teacher wannabees should pay attention, if that is even likely they could, cause my experience is they are full of themselves and stark raving mad, like insane, raging, rabid dogs. Peter and the mad prophets, Peter the apostle, another chosen apostle, wrote plenty on those kinds of evil people. Don't doubt one bit that they are not evil, cause they are, and also controlling and abusive. What would you expect from a bad shepherd, a false pastor, false prophet, something like good fruit? They are scary people for sure. No nothing good they produce except thorns. If you know what I am talking about, they are painful and hurtful to be involved with. That is what heresies bring on, nothing good comes of it.
Is God restoring the offices of apostle and prophet in the church today? | GotQuestions.org
a short excerpt, if the office of apostle and prophet, the NAR people is not operating today, then you know where they get energized from.
During the first century of the church, there was an office of apostle and there was a spiritual gift of apostle. The office or position of apostle was held by the 12 disciples of Jesus plus Matthias, who took Judas’ place, and Paul. Those who held the office or position of apostle were chosen specifically by Christ (Mark 3:16-19). The replacement for Judas is seen in Acts 1:20-26. Note in this passage that Judas' position was called an office. It should also be noted that Paul was chosen by Christ (1 Corinthians 15:8-9; Galatians 1:1; 2:6-9). These men were given the task of setting up the foundation of the church. It should be understood that it was for the universal church that these men were a part of the foundation (Ephesians 2:20). The foundation of the church (universal church) was laid in the first century. This is why the office of apostle is no longer functioning.
The apostles setup faith and practice of the early church, so Paul writes also that after he is gone, fierce wolves will run havoc and eat up the church from the inside out, seen it in youth groups, wow, have I seen it, false prophecies for the kids from false prophets invited into the church, screaming crying weird stuff happening.
They are no more real apostles, but there are false apostles. My experiences taught me exactly that.
Maybe some false apostle, false prophet, false teacher wannabees should pay attention, if that is even likely they could, cause my experience is they are full of themselves and stark raving mad, like insane, raging, rabid dogs. Peter and the mad prophets, Peter the apostle, another chosen apostle, wrote plenty on those kinds of evil people. Don't doubt one bit that they are not evil, cause they are, and also controlling and abusive. What would you expect from a bad shepherd, a false pastor, false prophet, something like good fruit? They are scary people for sure. No nothing good they produce except thorns. If you know what I am talking about, they are painful and hurtful to be involved with. That is what heresies bring on, nothing good comes of it.
Is God restoring the offices of apostle and prophet in the church today? | GotQuestions.org
a short excerpt, if the office of apostle and prophet, the NAR people is not operating today, then you know where they get energized from.
During the first century of the church, there was an office of apostle and there was a spiritual gift of apostle. The office or position of apostle was held by the 12 disciples of Jesus plus Matthias, who took Judas’ place, and Paul. Those who held the office or position of apostle were chosen specifically by Christ (Mark 3:16-19). The replacement for Judas is seen in Acts 1:20-26. Note in this passage that Judas' position was called an office. It should also be noted that Paul was chosen by Christ (1 Corinthians 15:8-9; Galatians 1:1; 2:6-9). These men were given the task of setting up the foundation of the church. It should be understood that it was for the universal church that these men were a part of the foundation (Ephesians 2:20). The foundation of the church (universal church) was laid in the first century. This is why the office of apostle is no longer functioning.
Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome! Many do know The Scriptures, and some
even say ALL of them apply to us today, meaning "for our obedience." But then the
trouble begins IF one "dares to ask" about "obeying SELL everything, and obeying Moses' law," when these same folks say we don't obey Acts_2:38 water baptism???
So, we are Very Concerned about this, and ask God, For HIS Scriptural Solution!
Precious friend, what think ye? Should we not Rightly
Divide God's Word Of Truth (2 Timothy 2:15)?:
According to the Scriptures, There Are TWO Different programs
with Different "sets Of Commandments." Which are "FOR us"?:
A) Jesus' commandments to the Twelve, and the nation of Israel,
given to them, on the earth, under the gospel of the kingdom!:
1) SELL EVERYTHING AND follow HIM"? The twelve and ALL believers
at Pentecost obeyed! (Acts 2:44-45; 4:32-37) Is this FOR us, today?
Consequences of Disobedience To CHRIST's Commandment!
(Acts 5:1-11) We should ALL [who HAVE NOT obeyed] "be DEAD," Correct?
2) "...to OBSERVE ALL That I (CHRIST!) Have COMMANDED you..."
[in what MANY think is THEIR "great commission"] (Mat_28:19-20)? ie:
"Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, Saying, The scribes
and the Pharisees sit in Moses' [Law] seat: ALL therefore whatsoever they
bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for
they say, and do not." (Mat_23:1-3) Is this for us, today??
Thousands of Jewish BELIEVERS, who LOVED Christ AND Obeyed HIM
had NO "Such ANTI-Obedience" problem that MANY have today!:
"And when they heard it, they glorified The LORD, and said unto him,
Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which
believe; and they are ALL zealous of The [Moses'] Law:" (Acts_21:20)
Question:
So, WHY do Critics accuse others of being "anti acts_2:38," when
THEY themSELVES are ANTI-OBEYING ALL the rest That Christ
Commanded, Under The LAW, besides water?
God's Answer to ALL this Confusion?:
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:
B)
CHRIST's ONE Simple Commandment, From HEAVEN, TO Paul,
FOR us, TODAY, Under God's Gospel Of PURE GRACE!:
1)
Fulfil ALL Of His Law, In "ONE Word: LOVE your neighbor
as yourself!" (Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:8-10 KJB!)
Ok, my mistake, TWO simple commandments:
2)
Isn't it true that God Commanded us to "study" to resolve ALL the
above CONFUSION, "to be Approved Unto HIM" (2 Timothy 2:15)?:
More helpful/Confirming "studies" [IF you wish...]:
God's Approval/TWO Gospels In Prophecy vs Mystery
"Distinctions" of Prophecy vs MYSTERY
GRACE and Peace! Amen?
Welcome HCOD. Scripture should be the final and ultimate authority for all matters of faith and practice. But it does not have that authority for many who claim to be Christians.
Is Paul saying.... he suffers not a woman to teach or usurp authority over a man, "sexist"?
Exactly, they think Paul was sexist in these modern woke days.
They now say "Hath God said..."? to us.
Thanks Oz.
I just realized that on this site they erase messages older than a few days.
Sorry if I didn't reply to any post of yours - you know I would...
Following are some interesting points in an article written by a poster here, @OzSpen.
It explains what a heresy is understood to be by scholars that study the N.T.
At the end of the article some heresies are stated...
Any comments?
The article is short and may be found here:
What is heresy?
Following are some excerpts:
By Spencer D Gear PhD
I was blogging on Christianity Board on the topic, “Heresy?” where the person asked:
“Every denomination has some teaching or doctrine that we would not agree with.
How would you explain the difference between an incorrect teaching and
a heretical teaching…?
IOW,,,when does an incorrect teaching become heretical? Thanks.”[1]
In the Septuagint (LXX) – the Greek translation of the Old Testament – hairesis is found occasionally as meaning free choice or voluntarily (e.g. Gen 49:5; Lev 22:18).[2]
Like hairesis in Josephus, [the word] denoted in the first instance the trends and parties within Judaism. But soon, when certain minim separated themselves from the orthodox Rabbinic tradition, it came to be used only of trends within Judaism opposed by the Rabbis. . . . The term thus stigmatised certain groups as “heretical.” This sense is found in Rabbinic writings belonging to the end of the 1st and early part of 2nd century A.D. . . . At the end of the 2nd century the term acquired a new meaning, being applied not so much to the members of a sect within Judaism as to the adherents of other faiths and esp. Christians and Gnostics.[3]
edit...
The basis of the Christian concept of hairesis is to be found in the new situation created by the introduction of the Christian ekklesia. Ekklesia and hairesis are material opposites. The latter cannot accept the former; the former excludes the latter. This may be clearly seen in Gal 5:10 where hairesis is reckoned among “he works of the flesh, along with [sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition]. Yet neither here nor else in the NT does hairesis have a technical sense. In 1 Cor. 11:18f we see even more clearly the impossibility of hairesis within Christianity.[5]
Heresy in the early church
In the age which followed NT hairesis, it
was still understood as an eschatologically threatening magnitude essentially opposed to the ekklesia. . . . Within Christianity hairesis always denotes hostile societies and there is always consciousness of an inner relationship between heretics and the secular philosophical schools or Jewish sects . . .
edit
So anything that was taught that was contrary to that for the early church – opposing Scripture – was called heresy.
So, this gives a wide field for relevance and challenge, especially in light of how denominations add to Scripture in topics such as baptism, the Lord’s Supper, allegorical interpretation of Scripture, etc.
Applications
To sum up: A heresy in today’s understanding is a sect whose way of thinking is dogma that promotes theology contrary to biblical Christianity – an heretical sect. This includes infant baptism, the Lord’s Supper as Real Presence, Covenant Theology, Once-Saved-Always-Saved, and worship of Mary.
An example would be the Jehovah’s Witnesses today who do not believe Jesus is God and they reject human beings as having an immortal soul. Mormonism fits the same category as heresy.
It explains what a heresy is understood to be by scholars that study the N.T.
At the end of the article some heresies are stated...
Any comments?
The article is short and may be found here:
What is heresy?
Following are some excerpts:
By Spencer D Gear PhD
I was blogging on Christianity Board on the topic, “Heresy?” where the person asked:
“Every denomination has some teaching or doctrine that we would not agree with.
How would you explain the difference between an incorrect teaching and
a heretical teaching…?
IOW,,,when does an incorrect teaching become heretical? Thanks.”[1]
In the Septuagint (LXX) – the Greek translation of the Old Testament – hairesis is found occasionally as meaning free choice or voluntarily (e.g. Gen 49:5; Lev 22:18).[2]
Like hairesis in Josephus, [the word] denoted in the first instance the trends and parties within Judaism. But soon, when certain minim separated themselves from the orthodox Rabbinic tradition, it came to be used only of trends within Judaism opposed by the Rabbis. . . . The term thus stigmatised certain groups as “heretical.” This sense is found in Rabbinic writings belonging to the end of the 1st and early part of 2nd century A.D. . . . At the end of the 2nd century the term acquired a new meaning, being applied not so much to the members of a sect within Judaism as to the adherents of other faiths and esp. Christians and Gnostics.[3]
edit...
The basis of the Christian concept of hairesis is to be found in the new situation created by the introduction of the Christian ekklesia. Ekklesia and hairesis are material opposites. The latter cannot accept the former; the former excludes the latter. This may be clearly seen in Gal 5:10 where hairesis is reckoned among “he works of the flesh, along with [sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition]. Yet neither here nor else in the NT does hairesis have a technical sense. In 1 Cor. 11:18f we see even more clearly the impossibility of hairesis within Christianity.[5]
Heresy in the early church
In the age which followed NT hairesis, it
was still understood as an eschatologically threatening magnitude essentially opposed to the ekklesia. . . . Within Christianity hairesis always denotes hostile societies and there is always consciousness of an inner relationship between heretics and the secular philosophical schools or Jewish sects . . .
edit
So anything that was taught that was contrary to that for the early church – opposing Scripture – was called heresy.
So, this gives a wide field for relevance and challenge, especially in light of how denominations add to Scripture in topics such as baptism, the Lord’s Supper, allegorical interpretation of Scripture, etc.
Applications
To sum up: A heresy in today’s understanding is a sect whose way of thinking is dogma that promotes theology contrary to biblical Christianity – an heretical sect. This includes infant baptism, the Lord’s Supper as Real Presence, Covenant Theology, Once-Saved-Always-Saved, and worship of Mary.
An example would be the Jehovah’s Witnesses today who do not believe Jesus is God and they reject human beings as having an immortal soul. Mormonism fits the same category as heresy.
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