To fully understand the Trinity one would have to be a member of it—- and we ain’t.
HERESY?
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You seem to believe that God chose who would be saved before the beginning of time.
I'd have to say that it is believed by every other denomination of the Christian faith that it is the reformed that are twisting the scriptures to say what they don't mean.
I'll just give you a for instance here because I'm not sure what you believe.
And, also, I don't plan to beat this horse to death as some do...however, I do want to state what mainline Christianity has held to be the truth from the beginning....
2 Thessalonians 2:13
13But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
14It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
I added verse 14 because it explains 13 better.
Verse 13 states that God has chosen us from the beginning...
Is it saying that God chooses who will be saved and who does not?
Or does it state HOW those saved are chosen?
It says: God chose us from the beginning for salvation THROUGH SANCTIFICATION BY THE SPIRIT and faith in the truth.
God chose to save us through sanctification by the spirit.
This tells us HOW we are saved...NOT WHO is saved.
Verse 14 states that God called us through our gospel.
Why would God need a gospel if HE is doing the choosing as to WHO would be saved?
And the word called in the N.T. means INVITED.
Why are we invited if we are chosen? The need to be invited would not exist.
I do agree with you re women pastors/priests, or whatever.
I'm not sure I agree as to the WHY of it.
What do you mean AS A RESULT OF THE FALL IN EDEN?
Could you clarify?
If you read what Paul says, the reason is Eve was deceived by the Serpent in Eden, and Adam was not deceived by the Serpent.
So God's judgement comes down and God says
16 To the woman He said:
“I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;
In pain you shall bring forth children;
Your desire shall be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you.”
So the woman according to God's judgment on her is not to rule, as in have authority over men.
If a woman desires to be a pastor and teach men, she is in direct conflict with God's judgement decision.
And no, this has not been taken away for those in Christ, Paul says it is still in effect. And of course so is death for example.
A woman teaching scripture to men is being disobedient to the command of God.
I still agree with you but I have a problem with one of your points.
Eve was deceived , ok.
Adam was not deceived. He Knew what he was doing. This was far worse. He knew and disobeyed anyway.
I hope you agree that Adam caused the fall, not Eve.
The second point is that Adam was also cursed so I don't understand why you mention Eve's curse and not Adam's.
Why should I? we were talking about Eve, and the reason why women are not allowed to teach men. Lets stick to the point.
If Adam is so innocent, why is our Old Sinful Nature referred to as our old “Adamic” Nature? The Bible never says “Evific Nature”.......Maybe I missed it..... I guess it must be “somewhere in the back” .....lol....
Your argument for or against women pastors is with God, not any person.
Adam was not deceived by the Serpent, the serpent spoke with Eve, it appears if the serpent had first approached Adam, he would not have listened to the Serpent like Eve did. Serpent's cunning is at play here too, he went after the weak, perhaps more sensual oriented emotive target, which if you notice, many women are like that.
Cool! I get the green light to comment.
Maybe you can go somewhere and start your own male forum.
A heretical teaching is mass commentary derived.
It usually take re-explaining a literal verse.
The less opinions, the less lies we tell.
Sola scriptura.
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I suppose since at the church's in Paul's days, you would not be allowed to speak either to the congregation, let alone teach, you would form your own church and not follow the apostles doctrine then.
1 Timothy 2
8 I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting; 9 in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, 10 but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works. 11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.
Acts 2
42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.
43 Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles.
44 Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common,
45 and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need.
46 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart,
47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.
I never asked to be a pastor. what I am telling you is:
1. women are not 2nd class citizens. Go tell your mom she's 2nd class.
2. You are not correct in bible teaching just because you are male.
3. IIRC, men and women sat on opposite sides in the synagogue.and when something was said in church, the women who scream out "What did he say" to their husbands on the other side.
4. Mary Magdalene chose the better part. She was learning from Jesus when Martha was complaining that she wasn't helping. You would've probably told her to find her place in the kitchen, and give her spot up to another man.
5. Deborah was a Judge of Israel.
6. you were probably taught most of the things you learned in school by females.
Do you think every guy who posts here is right just because he is a guy?
Some other guy here was talking about there being all males in Heaven, and acting like women weren't going to be allowed. What a ministry for all to see! It just means that there will be no need to reproduce, no marriages in heaven.
And regardless of my gender, if someone posts something on here that i disagree with, and am moved to respond, I will.
Do you agree with Paul here?..
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
Jim B
Well-Known Member
What a stretch! God told Eve that Adam would rule over her. And then you say that if a woman desires to be a pastor and teach men, she is in direct conflict with God's decision that Eve shouldn't rule Adam. Seriously? This is the epitome of eisegesis.
It is a good idea to take what Scripture says at face value, not to put your own sexist, distorted spin on it. A woman teaching scripture to men is being obedient to the command of God.
Jim B
Well-Known Member
Jim B
Well-Known Member
Do you agree with Paul here: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female—for all of you are one in Christ Jesus."?
In case you're not aware, 1) we aren't living in Paul's time, when women were almost exclusively illiterate, 2) Christians are led by the Spirit; we're not under law.
Your sexist agenda won't get you far. There is no reason that women can't fulfill whatever role God calls them to perform. If you really believe what you write, why are you responding to women on this forum?
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