Elect or Not Elect: Why ALL Should Be Alarmed

[Phoneman777]

It sounds like you are again trying to say how the Spirit must work and can't work.

I understand why - you seem to be somewhat unfamiliar with what Paul says under inspiration about how the Holy Spirit gifts are given "severally" as He sees fit.

Some would say that if the Spirit does something a certain way He will always do it that way. Because God is consistent.

If God told you this, then that's His truth to you. Who am I to say otherwise. I hope that blesses you as you are a blessing to Christ body, the church.

Revelation 12 says of the church that they "keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ". In the context of this verse, do you know what Scripture says is the "testimony of Jesus Christ"?

 

[Phoneman777]

Correct, the entire sanctuary service was removed!

Never! The only thing Antiochus did was suspend the daily sacrifice - no historian says he put a stop to the entire sanctuary service which involves much more than just the burnt offering.

I briefly mentioned it as being simply "the daily sacrifice" in general, because the details of it in 1 Maccabees does list it out, whereby AE-lV took it ALL to his own dwelling place.
1 Mac. 1
[21] And [AE-lV] entered proudly into the sanctuary, and took away the golden altar, and the candlestick of light, and all the vessels thereof,
[22] And the table of the shewbread, and the pouring vessels, and the vials. and the censers of gold, and the VEIL, and the crown, and the golden ornaments that were before the temple, all which he pulled off.
[23] He took also the silver and the gold, and the precious vessels: also he took the hidden treasures which he found.
[24] And when he had taken all away, he went into his own land, having made a great massacre, and spoken very proudly.
[25] Therefore there was a great mourning in Israel, in every place where they were;
[26] So that the princes and elders mourned, the virgins and young men were made feeble, and the beauty of women was changed.

Now since Jesus Himself pointed to Daniel, as being the source of prophetic information, for the details of the event of the "AoD", I for one am going to trust the historical record by the people of Daniel first ("thy people") for the accurate recording of what actually transpired against them, through the hands of AE-lV.


And of course the same shenanigans occur over when "the commandment" was given to rebuild Jeruselem in the time of Artexerxes. 465-424BC
Why then did such a commandment have to be given?
Because, the temple and Jerusalem had been destroyed by the Babylonions in 539BC, but then AFTER it was rebuilt, it would AGAIN be desolated/destroyed by AE-lV, during the prophecy of the 2300 DAYS.

As you can see the previous time of desolation of the Temple, had nothing to do with the rebuilt temple, concerning AE-lV and the desolation that he brought.

NOTE: The sanctuary and the Temple building was NEVER REBUILT after the Roman Titus destroyed it PERMANENTLY. And that of its structure, WIll NEVER BE BUILT AGAIN, even to the consummation!! Dan.9:27

However, the sanctuary of the temple was cleansed/restored by Judas Maccabeus FIRST, being 45 DAYS later, AFTER the 2300 DAYS of being "trodden down" by AE-lV.

1Mac.4​

[36] Then said Judas [Maccabeus] and his brethren, Behold, our enemies are discomfited: let us go up to cleanse and dedicate the sanctuary.
[38] And when they saw [being eye witnesses] the sanctuary desolate, and the altar profaned, and the gates burned up, and shrubs growing in the courts as in a forest, or in one of the mountains, yea, and the priests' chambers pulled down;
[41] Then Judas appointed certain men to fight against those that were in the fortress, until he HAD cleansED the sanctuary.
[43] Who cleansed the sanctuary, and bare out the defiled stones into an unclean place.
[48] And made up the sanctuary, and the things that were within the temple, and hallowed the courts.

In the time of Jesus, what did the Pharisees say to Jesus?
John 2[20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years  WAS this TEMPLE in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
> Yes, the TEMPLE was rebuilt in 46 years, BUT THE SANCTUARY, was ALREADY cleansed/restored by Judas Maccabeus.

"Judas Maccabeus (died 161/160 BCE)"

Judas Maccabeus | History, Hanukkah, & The Hammer

Judas Maccabeus was a Jewish guerrilla leader who defended his country from invasion by the Seleucid king Antiochus IV Epiphanes, preventing the imposition of Hellenism upon Judaea, and preserving the Jewish religion. The son of Mattathias, an aged priest who took to the mountains in rebellion when

www.britannica.com

I don't believe Maccabees is accurate, but even if it is, Antiochus did not "take away" those things for 2300 or 1150 days!

Josephus says it was 1260 days and other authorities claim it was 1090 days - neither of which amounts to what the prophecy says.

 

[Phoneman777]

Doesn't your bible say that 'the LORD has put' and 'the LORD hath spoken'? I don't see the word allow in there.

1Ki 22:20-23 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

Was the prophet Micaiah a false prophet or was he just lying when he when he came to this conclusion...
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

It doesn't have to say it - we need only learn of the character of God from the rest of Scripture to know God allows things to happen.

 

[Phoneman777]

Jesus Himself has eclipsed the light of the 10C Law by fulfilling the Law. Therefore, He Himself is the Righteousness of God, being Himself the Light of the world.
To say otherwise is to denounce the work of Christ, because the Righteousness of God does not come to us by way of keeping the 10C Law, but rather is Gifted to us by having faith in Jesus, and becoming "born again" by His Spirit.

The light of Jesus does not diminish the light of the law - it just merely outshines it.

An oncoming driver with his high beams on doesn't diminish your own headlights - just outshines them.

 

[Phoneman777]

It is apparent to me that you are bought and sold by your denomination.

Wrong. I'm "convicted by the Holy Spirit" through thorough investigation of the truth. You, on the other hand, refuse to let go of Antiochus as the Little Horn, though I've shown you numerous reasons why he's not.

Being that of the heirarchal doctrines and traditions of your form of godliness in church-ianity.

Our doctrines are air tight, friend. It's you who ignore Scripture such as the Little Horn waxing "exceeding great" in the South, despite Antiochus being driven out by a small Roman envoy.

The fact that you publicly preach sermons at times in your assembly, speaks volumes to me, that you have become staunch and hard-core (indoctrinated), being no different than the Priests of the RCC, who have also swallowed their own form of doctrines, hook line and sinker.
1 Cor. 2:5
"ALL of the churches have SOME of His truth, but NONE of the churches have ALL of His truth"- Earburner

No one "indoctrinates" me - I fought for a year to avoid joining the SDA church becasue I knew my $120,000/year job wouldn't grant me permission to keep the Sabbath.

So, don't tell me I'm "indoctrinated" - what I am is "Scripturally educated".

It's Jesuit sympathizers who are indoctrinated from a church that's somehow deemed trustworthy when it comes to the meat of prophecy despite their failure to drink the "salvation by grace through faith" milk.

 

[Phoneman777]

AE's deepest desire was to exceed at being GREATER than great. Whether he met his singular goal or not doesn't matter, because the words DON'T IMPLY that he would or he wouldn't achieve his goal.

Daniel doesn't say the Little Horn would "desire to be exceeding great" - it says "he WAXED exceeding great" aka "grew exceeding great" aka "became exceeding great".

Good gravy, man, if all that's required to fulfill the many criteria of prophecy is that the subjects of it merely desire to attain that which prophecy says they indeed attained, we can make prophecy say whatever we want!

 

[Earburner]

Doesn't your bible say that 'the LORD has put' and 'the LORD hath spoken'? I don't see the word allow in there.

1Ki 22:20-23 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

Was the prophet Micaiah a false prophet or was he just lying when he when he came to this conclusion...
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

You might want to reconsider your understanding. It is evident that you are not aware of when 1 Kings 22:20-23 took place. It was during the Age of Indignation, whereby Satan and all the lying spirits with him, was fully operative among all men, long BEFORE the first appearance of Jesus, aka the "Stronger" man (KJV). Luke 11:18-22.

However, ever since Jesus' death and resurrection, Satan no longer has free will access to enter into Heaven and approach God the Father. Nor can he re-enter into any and all of God's Born Again Saints.

1 Kings 22:20-23
And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said unto him [to the spirit], Wherewith?
And he [the spirit] said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he [the LORD] said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
Is that not the same situation by which satan [a lying spirit], came before the LORD, in his rebellious will, requesting to tempt and torment Job?

 

[One 2 question]

I understand why - you seem to be somewhat unfamiliar with what Paul says under inspiration about how the Holy Spirit gifts are given "severally" as He sees fit.

You are probably right. And I don't have access to Paul atm so I can't ask him directly so he can give further clarification on what he said and more importantly to some, just what he meant when he said certain things.

For me, what I can do is go to Paul's Source and have a chat with Him to get what He is saying.

What the Spirit wanted to communicate and achieve in the church in its early years through Paul may very well be different to what He's communicating at different stages of the development of the growth of the body, the church.

That's probably why Jesus appoints people like you and I and every member to carry out specific functions for the body's sake throughout the life of the body. Yes, it is Jesus Who is the Head of the church and oversees every developmental stage til it is fully formed.

Praise Father that He has Jesus in this most important role and not an imperfect human or group of humans.

 

[Earburner]

Daniel doesn't say the Little Horn would "desire to be exceeding great" - it says "he WAXED exceeding great" aka "grew exceeding great" aka "became exceeding great".

Good gravy, man, if all that's required to fulfill the many criteria of prophecy is that the subjects of it merely desire to attain that which prophecy says they indeed attained, we can make prophecy say whatever we want!

So which is it historically? First you said that Antiochus never did exceed being greater than great, but now you say he "became exceeding great" [greater than great].
Again, I don't think you understand the word "waxed", in the context of his military desires and hopes of conquest.

 

[One 2 question]

under inspiration

What do YOU mean by this when YOU quote these words? I'm pretty sure Paul had a fair understanding when HE used these words.

 

[Earburner]

Never! The only thing Antiochus did was suspend the daily sacrifice - no historian says he put a stop to the entire sanctuary service which involves much more than just the burnt offering.

I don't believe Maccabees is accurate, but even if it is, Antiochus did not "take away" those things for 2300 or 1150 days!

Josephus says it was 1260 days and other authorities claim it was 1090 days - neither of which amounts to what the prophecy says.

Though you may not take the time to examine the Jewish historical account of the cleansing of the sanctuary and the temple, I posted it here-
1 Mac. 4
[36] Then said Judas [Maccabeus] and his brethren, Behold, our enemies are discomfited: let us go up to cleanse and dedicate the sanctuary.
[37] Upon this all the host [army of Israel] assembled themselves together, and went up into mount Sion.
[38] And when they saw [eye witnessed] the sanctuary desolate, and the altar profaned, and the gates burned up, and shrubs growing in the courts as in a forest, or in one of the mountains, yea, and the priests' chambers pulled down;
[39] They rent their clothes, and made great lamentation, and cast ashes upon their heads,
[40] And fell down flat to the ground upon their faces, and blew an alarm with the trumpets, and cried toward heaven.
[41] Then Judas appointed certain men to fight against those that were in the fortress, until he had cleansed the sanctuary.

[42] So he chose priests of blameless conversation, such as had pleasure in the law:
[43] Who cleansed the sanctuary, and bare out the defiled stones into an unclean place.
[44] And when as they consulted what to do with the altar of burnt offerings, which was profaned;
[45] They thought it best to pull it down, lest it should be a reproach to them, because the heathen had defiled it: wherefore they pulled it down,
[46] And laid up the stones in the mountain of the temple in a convenient place, until there should come a prophet to shew what should be done with them.
[47] Then they took whole stones according to the law, and built a new altar according to the former;
[48] And made up the sanctuary, and the things that were within the temple, and hallowed the courts.
[49] They made also new holy vessels, and into the temple they brought the candlestick, and the altar of burnt offerings, and of incense, and the table.
[50] And upon the altar they burned incense, and the lamps that were upon the candlestick they lighted, that they might give light in the temple.
[51] Furthermore they set the loaves upon the table, and spread out the veils, and finished all the works which they had begun to make.
[52] Now on the five and twentieth day of the ninth month, which is called the month Casleu, in the hundred forty and eighth [148th] year, they rose up betimes in the morning,
[53] And offered sacrifice according to the law upon the new altar of burnt offerings, which they had made.
[54] Look, at what time and what day the heathen had profaned it, even in that was it dedicated with songs, and citherns, and harps, and cymbals.
[55] Then all the people fell upon their faces, worshipping and praising the God of heaven, who had given them good success.
[56] And so they kept the dedication of the altar eight days and offered burnt offerings with gladness, and sacrificed the sacrifice of deliverance and praise.
[57] They decked also the forefront of the temple with crowns of gold, and with shields; and the gates and the chambers they renewed, and hanged doors upon them.
[58] Thus was there very great gladness among the people, for that the reproach of the heathen was put away.

Today, we all know of that Jewish celebration as being Hanaukkah

 

[One 2 question]

You might want to reconsider your understanding. It is evident that you are not aware of when 1 Kings 22:20-23 took place. It was during the Age of Indignation, whereby Satan and all the lying spirits with him, was fully operative among all men, long BEFORE the first appearance of Jesus, aka the "Stronger" man (KJV). Luke 11:18-22.

However, ever since Jesus' death and resurrection, Satan no longer has free will access to enter into Heaven and approach God the Father. Nor can he re-enter into any and all of God's Born Again Saints.

1 Kings 22:20-23
And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said unto him [to the spirit], Wherewith?
And he [the spirit] said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he [the LORD] said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
Is that not the same situation by which satan [a lying spirit], came before the LORD, in his rebellious will, requesting to tempt and torment Job?

So you would picture this spirit God used to be an evil one not a good one?
1Ki 22:22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

And was it God or Satan who initiated Job's trials testings?
Didn't Job say, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD. Job 1:21

 

[One 2 question]

Is that not the same situation by which satan [a lying spirit], came before the LORD, in his rebellious will, requesting to tempt and torment Job?

I guess a simple question would be, if Satan asked God's permission to go tempt Job, He had every right to deny Satan's request. But God didn't.

I guess that may have been on Jesus mind when He taught His disciples how to pray. Led us not into temptation, as You did Me and Job, as You will Peter and Judas. Jesus knew how challenging it is to be tempted by Father, especially when His Father has spirit's like Satan at His disposal. Add to him His very Own Spirit Who has led people into temptation, including Father's only begotten Son.

 

[One 2 question]

However, ever since Jesus' death and resurrection, Satan no longer has free will access to enter into Heaven and approach God the Father. Nor can he re-enter into any and all of God's Born Again Saints.

Can I ask who told you these things?

Has Satan's will ever been free from his Creators' control since They created him and all the other angelic beings?

 

[One 2 question]

Age of Indignation

When did you receive this term and what does it mean to you?

 

[Earburner]

Can I ask who told you these things?

Has Satan's will ever been free from his Creators' control since They created him and all the other angelic beings?

All creatures of God's creation, angels included, are autonomous, having free will to abide within the limitations of their beings, their level of their intelligence, and the environment in which they dwell.

 

[One 2 question]

All creatures of God's creation, angels included, are autonomous, having free will to abide within the limitations of their beings, their level of their intelligence, and the environment in which they dwell.

Again who told you all creatures are autonomous, having free will?

 

[Earburner]

Again who told you all creatures are autonomous, having free will?

Adam and Eve were created without the knowledge of good or evil. Therefore, to be void of both, reveals that they were created beings of an innocent mind.

However, God the Father and Jesus did possess the knowledge of good and evil, as well as all the angelic beings, of which do NOT have the Eternal Life of God.
But, the angels do have eternal existence, as long as they worship God alone without error, through their obedience and adherence to every facet of God's will towards them.

The Grace of God does not exist in their spiritual realm.

 

[One 2 question]

The Grace of God does not exist in their spiritual realm.

I don't know where you get this info from. Did God give it to you directly? If so can you tell me more. Thanks

 

[Phoneman777]

So which is it historically? First you said that Antiochus never did exceed being greater than great, but now you say he "became exceeding great" [greater than great].
Again, I don't think you understand the word "waxed", in the context of his military desires and hopes of conquest.

I never said Antiochus waxed "exceeding great" - I've said the opposite because he was not the least bit great.