Elect or Not Elect: Why ALL Should Be Alarmed

[One 2 question]

God must have had a good reason for not revealing any more than He did in His last communication 2000 years ago, in the book of Revelation. God has been silent since then, and no new revelations have been given to mankind

Just another simple question, who told you that God is not revealing any more than He did in His last communication 2000 years ago, in the book of Revelation?

Was it God? If so, when did God tell you this?

so all we have to work with is the completed 2000 year old canon of scripture.

Who said scripture was completed 2000 years ago? Who decided on the cut off point of scriptures? Then who decided on what writings are in and what are to be kept out?
Why is it a closed canon not an open progressive collection of

Every generation since then has had the same scriptures to guide them and instruct them.

What's very exciting is that every generation since then has had access to the Spirit of their Creators Who has brought knowledge of Themselves to us.

I can speak from experience not just theory. They guide me each day. They impart knowledge that has transformed my life. They have given me knowledge of what is going to happen in the future. And for this I am very grateful. The knowledge of this particular truth cannot be substantiated, confirmed or verified by the closed canon, the bible. It's just not in there.

 

[Earburner]

Dear Earburner,
You are bringing Christ down to the level of mankind who does not always accomplish their "will" and desires. Christ is not like mankind and He always accomplishes everything He has said He will accomplish. If Christ is not willing that "any should perish", then no one will perish. Why can't you believe Him?

Job 23:13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? And what his soul desireth, that will he do.

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

You have no faith in the power and abilities of Christ. None whatsoever.

Joe

Jer. 31:31-34
[31] Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

A "covenant" is a contract between two or more people, who are in agreement to the terms. If anyone or all is wilfully ignorant of the terms of the covenant, when it has been made publically known, as a witness to all nations, then all of such will not be obligated to the terms, nor will they receive the benefits of that covenant.
The terms are that God seeks of us repentance towards Him, through faith in the Lord Jesus.

Mark.1​

[4] John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
[15] And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Mark.2​

[17] When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick:
I came not to call the righteous, but [rather] sinners to repentance.

 

[One 2 question]

With that in view, I would conclude that we can have an intimate relationship with God through the Holy Spirit.

What does that look like for you on a moment by moment, day by day basis?

Do you speak to Holy Spirit and He answers you directly with specific guidance and instructions?

 

[One 2 question]

So I have difficulty believing anyone who claims to have some new revelation

That's OK if this is difficult for you to believe for now. Maybe God will give you the ability to receive revelation directly and not found in the bible.

I love the experience of receiving new revelation from God Himself.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Dear Christian Soldier,
The Lake of Fire is a spiritual symbol for Christ's judgment. It is not a literal place.

Here is the correct translation of Mat 25:41:
Matt 25:41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the age enduring (aionios) fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Christ's judgment is not eternal. It lasts only until its desired effect is accomplished. At the end of the final age, Christ's judgment will end because all mankind will be converted into children of God. At that time, God will be "all in all" (no one left out of the Kingdom of Heaven).

1Cor 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection from the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the consummation, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

I could present you more scripture but I have already done so on my other posts on this thread. If you can't receive what I presented on those posts, adding to them here will not help you understand.

If you have a specific question, I would be willing to answer it (as the Lord wills).

Joe

The only question I would like to ask, is how d you deal with thew scriptures which describe hell as a place of eternal torment with no escape.

Below are just a few verses describing hell as being eternal. I can't accept your interpretation of other scriptures, if it contradicts what Jesus said.

Hell is a prison of everlasting chains from which there is no hope of release (Jude 6).

It is a furnace of conscious torment where the fire never goes out (Matt. 13.49-50).

It is a place of excruciating misery where the worm does not die (Mark 9.47-48).

Hell is a place of agonizing thirst that can never be quenched (Luke 16.22-24).

 

[Christian Soldier]

Just another simple question, who told you that God is not revealing any more than He did in His last communication 2000 years ago, in the book of Revelation?

Was it God? If so, when did God tell you this?



Who said scripture was completed 2000 years ago? Who decided on the cut off point of scriptures? Then who decided on what writings are in and what are to be kept out?
Why is it a closed canon not an open progressive collection of


What's very exciting is that every generation since then has had access to the Spirit of their Creators Who has brought knowledge of Themselves to us.

I can speak from experience not just theory. They guide me each day. They impart knowledge that has transformed my life. They have given me knowledge of what is going to happen in the future. And for this I am very grateful. The knowledge of this particular truth cannot be substantiated, confirmed or verified by the closed canon, the bible. It's just not in there.

I just don't find anything in the Bible to suggest that other revelation would be given apart from that which was given to thew Apostle John, on the Isle of Patmos.

Jesus warned His Disciples, several times to take heed because many false prophets would come after Him. He said they would perform great wonders, to deceive people so we must be very careful not to fall for their deception and false doctrine.

1 John 4:1-3 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

 

[Christian Soldier]

What does that look like for you on a moment by moment, day by day basis?

Do you speak to Holy Spirit and He answers you directly with specific guidance and instructions?

The Holy Spirit guides everything we think do and say, He leads us to pray for what God wants us to pray for and He gives us the words we need to bare a witness for God and He gives us strength to overcome temptation in our actions. So, we are possessed by the Holy Spirit of God. He is doing the work of transformation and conforming us into the image of Christ.

So it looks like I'm being passive and allowing the Holy Spirit to do what ever He wants. In other words, I died to self and the Holy Spirit has completely taken over to the point that I have no say in anything.

 

[Christian Soldier]

That's OK if this is difficult for you to believe for now. Maybe God will give you the ability to receive revelation directly and not found in the bible.

I love the experience of receiving new revelation from God Himself.

With all due respect, the Bible warns me about such claims in no uncertain terms.

Galatians 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

My only authority is thew completed canon of scripture which is God's infallible Word, given to us by God Himself. Gods Word tells us that anyone who doesn't believe that is cursed, meaning condemned.

 

[One 2 question]

So it looks like I'm being passive and allowing the Holy Spirit to do what ever He wants. In other words, I died to self and the Holy Spirit has completely taken over to the point that I have no say in anything.

Agreed

 

[One 2 question]

My only authority is thew completed canon of scripture which is God's infallible Word, given to us by God Himself. Gods Word tells us that anyone who doesn't believe that is cursed, meaning condemned.

Again, that is where you are at and that's OK with me as this is His will for you at this time. I was once where you are at, believing and saying pretty much the same thing as you.

Praise our God that He has a specific plan for each of us individually and that He is generating pleasure from what He does with us. It sure takes the pressure off us. We don't have to feel responsible for others.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Again, that is where you are at and that's OK with me as this is His will for you at this time. I was once where you are at, believing and saying pretty much the same thing as you.

Praise our God that He has a specific plan for each of us individually and that He is generating pleasure from what He does with us. It sure takes the pressure off us. We don't have to feel responsible for others.

Can you please confirm that you believe in the Triune Godhead, as described in the Bible to be the only One true God.

I wanted to clarify that, because you said "Praise our God", which suggests we believe in the same God. I mention this because you were referring to God, in the plural earlier.

 

[FaithWillDo]

The only question I would like to ask, is how d you deal with thew scriptures which describe hell as a place of eternal torment with no escape.

Below are just a few verses describing hell as being eternal. I can't accept your interpretation of other scriptures, if it contradicts what Jesus said.

Hell is a prison of everlasting chains from which there is no hope of release (Jude 6).

It is a furnace of conscious torment where the fire never goes out (Matt. 13.49-50).

It is a place of excruciating misery where the worm does not die (Mark 9.47-48).

Hell is a place of agonizing thirst that can never be quenched (Luke 16.22-24).

Dear Christian Soldier,
The verses you posted are true but your understanding of them is in error.

Firstly, the Greek words commonly translated as everlasting, eternal, eternity or for ever and ever all come from the root word "aion" which means a age of time. All its other forms should be translated as being related to an age, such as "age enduring" or "for the ages", etc. There is no single Greek word that means eternal or everlasting used in scripture.

Secondly, to understand the verses you quoted, you must understand how they relate to the spiritual process of "conversion".

To be saved, a person must be converted. Conversion consists of Christ giving a person the both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit, followed by judgment. After a person is given the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit, they are "born again" as a new creation; a child of God. Christ will then judge the believer to destroy the marred spirit which has made them carnal and sinful.

In the farming analogy, man's carnality is called "chaff". In other analogies, it is called the Great Harlot, child of the devil or man of sin. All the death, destruction and suffering shown during a person's judgment is for the purpose of destroying the child of the devil so that all is left within a person is the new child of God.

I made this post below on another thread this morning. It will expand what I stated above.

The teachings of the New Covenant are written in Christ's spiritual language. That language uses "spirit" words that carry meanings that are different than what man's wisdom teaches. The spirit word "Lake of Fire" is a symbol and it means Christ's judgment. It is not a literal place of fire and it certainly does not last "for ever and ever". That phrase "aion aion" should be translated as "ages of the ages". This correct translation can be proven by its usage in other scripture. It was only translated incorrectly to support the apostate church's false teaching of an eternal hell.

Look at this verse below which uses "for ever and ever":

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Here is the correct translation:

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for the ages of the ages.

Now compare how long Christ's reign lasts in the scripture below:

1Cor 15:25 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Clearly, Paul believed that Christ's reign will come to an end someday. And it will after all mankind has been converted into children of God and sin is no more. At this point, death will be defeated and Christ's reign will come to an end because Christ has completed the mission His Father gave Him to complete:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

It will then be testified to be true that Christ is truly mankind's Savior:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Christ is not the failure that the apostate church makes Him out to be.

One last point: In this age, Christ is only bringing in the harvest of the chosen First Fruits. They are the heirs and will be the only ones found written in the Book of Life because they are the only ones who have been converted. Conversion requires judgment to remove the "chaff" (things that make them carnal) from within a person. In the final age, Christ will turn His attention to the rest of mankind (the main harvest) and start working to save them as well. The Lake of Fire is not is a place that is literally burning with fire. The torment the "lost" experience is mental torment. Also, since Christ is judging the "lost" by the Law, the penalty of their sin is death. But before they perish, Christ will have mercy upon them and give them the faith they need to be saved (Mat 23:23). Look at these scriptures that teach about Christ's judgment:

Isa 1:27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.

Psa 33:5 He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD.

Jer 4:2 And thou shalt swear, The LORD liveth, in truth, in judgment, and in righteousness; and the nations shall bless themselves in him, and in him shall they glory.

Amos 5:24 But let judgment run down as waters (water is the symbol for the Holy Spirit), and righteousness as a mighty stream.

Jer 9:24 But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.

Prov 28:5 Evil men (the apostate church is most certainly evil) understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Job 34:12 Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.

Luke 12:59 I tell you, you will not get out (of the Lake of Fire) until you have paid the last penny" (carnality is completely destroyed).

Mat 21:31 Which of the two was obeying his father?" They replied, "The first, of course." Then Jesus explained his meaning: "I assure you, corrupt tax collectors and prostitutes will get into the Kingdom of God before you do (judgment is not eternal but is for the purpose of saving the lost, even those who crucified Christ).

1Cor 3:13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he (those in the Book of Life) shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss (not be an heir): but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire (Christ's judgment/Lake of Fire).

Mankind uses judgment for evil purposes. Christ uses judgment to make mankind righteous because His judgment cleanses mankind of the chaff that makes them evil. In this way, Christ loves His enemies and does good to them:

Luke 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Which God do you follow? The one (the true Christ) who is loving and merciful to His enemies or the one (Satan) who hates His enemies and torments them in literal fire for all eternity with no loving purpose to it?

Joe

 

[Christian Soldier]

Dear Christian Solder,
The verses you posted are true but your understanding of them is in error.

Firstly, the Greek words commonly translated as everlasting, eternal, eternity or for ever and ever all come from the root word "aion" which means a age of time. All its other forms should be translated as being related to an age, such as "age enduring" or "for the ages", etc. There is no single Greek word that means eternal or everlasting used in scripture.

Christ is not the failure that the apostate church makes Him out to be.

One last point: In this age, Christ is only bringing in the harvest of the chosen First Fruits. They are the heirs and will be the only ones found written in the Book of Life because they are the only ones who have been converted. Conversion requires judgment to remove the "chaff" (things that make them carnal) from within a person. In the final age, Christ will turn His attention to the rest of mankind (the main harvest) and start working to save them as well. The Lake of Fire is not is a place that is literally burning with fire. The torment the "lost" experience is mental torment. Also, since Christ is judging the "lost" by the Law, the penalty of their sin is death. But before they perish, Christ will have mercy upon them and give them the faith they need to be saved (Mat 23:23). Look at these scriptures that teach about Christ's judgment:

Isa 1:27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.

Psa 33:5 He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD.

Jer 4:2 And thou shalt swear, The LORD liveth, in truth, in judgment, and in righteousness; and the nations shall bless themselves in him, and in him shall they glory.

Amos 5:24 But let judgment run down as waters (water is the symbol for the Holy Spirit), and righteousness as a mighty stream.

Jer 9:24 But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.

Prov 28:5 Evil men (the apostate church is most certainly evil) understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Job 34:12 Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.

Luke 12:59 I tell you, you will not get out (of the Lake of Fire) until you have paid the last penny" (carnality is completely destroyed).

Mat 21:31 Which of the two was obeying his father?" They replied, "The first, of course." Then Jesus explained his meaning: "I assure you, corrupt tax collectors and prostitutes will get into the Kingdom of God before you do (judgment is not eternal but is for the purpose of saving the lost, even those who crucified Christ).

1Cor 3:13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he (those in the Book of Life) shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss (not be an heir): but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire (Christ's judgment/Lake of Fire).

Mankind uses judgment for evil purposes. Christ uses judgment to make mankind righteous because His judgment cleanses mankind of the chaff that makes them evil. In this way, Christ loves His enemies and does good to them:

Luke 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Which God do you follow? The one (the true Christ) who is loving and merciful to His enemies or the one (Satan) who hates His enemies and torments them in literal fire for all eternity with no loving purpose to it?

Joe

Thank you for sharing your interpretation of what all those scriptures are saying. After carefully reading through all of them, I came to the sad realization that we're worlds apart with our radically opposed interpretations of every single verse you cited.
There's nothing new or unusual about Christians holding to different interpretations, the Church is divided into 40,000+ Denominations, because they don't agree with each others systematic theology, views and interpretations.

Our views are so far apart, that I don't think we will find any common ground on how we understand the Bible. I've never come across anyone who shares your views before, so that immediately throws up a red flag. My Pastor warned us about anyone who comes up with something new, he said we need to treat them as wolves in sheep's clothing. God appointed Shepherds to lead local Churches, so as a Sheep I must obey God and listen to my Shepherd.

Our Pastor said, "there is nothing new under the sun, all things remain the same as they always have been". So with all due respect, I have no choice other than to reject all of your views as unbiblical. Please don't take this personally, I'm only conveying what my Pastor instructed me to say. I'm not trying to force our systematic theology on you, nor am I accusing you of being a heretic. My own family is radically divided over our different views and theology, that doesn't mean we don't love each other.

My own theology has fundamentally changed, according to some of my Roman Catholic family and friends, I have crossed over to join the enemy (the Protestant Church). I would never judge someone for holding to a different theological system, as that would make me a hypocrite, since I was a practicing Roman Catholic before I converted to Christianity. I believe everyone matures on the Christian journey, so views and understanding changes over time. That's why we can't judge anyone until their race is run.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Thank you for sharing your interpretation of what all those scriptures are saying.

Dear Christian Soldier,
You must understand that shortly after the death of Paul, all the churches became apostate. Paul was very distressed by this revelation and cried over it with his churches for 3 years (Acts 20:29-31). You should not take it lightly. All the churches which exist in the world are apostate. They teach "another gospel" just as Paul warned about.

2Cor 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Christ taught about the coming apostasy of the church frequently. It happened so long ago now that the apostate church is well entrenched in this world. It is not just one denomination, sect or group - it is all of them. When a believer receives the Latter Rain of the Spirit, their spiritual blindness will be healed. It is at that point that they will "see" the Abomination of Desolation that previously occurred within themselves when they came under Satan's deceptions (Mat 24:15-16). No new believer can avoid it happening them.

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

I made a another post related to this subject on another thread this morning and I will share it with you below. It is a little long and will run over into a second post here. It begins by explaining the concealed nature of scripture and how it lead to the apostasy.

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

John clearly says that the vision is "signified". In other words, it uses spiritual symbols to teach its truth. All the New Covenant teachings are the same way. They use Christ's spiritual language which utilizes analogies, parables, "types" and prophecies to teach the spiritual truth of the New Covenant. And within those teachings, Christ uses "spirit" words which are similar to the spiritual symbols used by the book of Revelation.

Paul even said that He teaches the New Covenant truth in the same manner:

1Cor 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

To understand the meanings of spiritual symbols, Paul says to "compare spiritual things (words) with spiritual. In other words, we must look to other scripture and see how the symbol is used elsewhere and then with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, the meaning of the symbol can be discerned.

Almost none of the New Covenant teachings can be understood by a believer unless they have received the Latter Rain of the Spirit and have had their spiritual blindness healed. When the scales fell off of Paul eyes after He received the Latter Rain of the Spirit, it represented the healing of his spiritual blindness. Mark 8:15-25 teaches this same truth by "type".

Also, consider what this scripture says:

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts (the converted Elect). 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips (parables/analogies/types/prophecies) and another language (Christ's spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken (by Satan).

Only Elect believers who have been converted and have been weaned from the breasts have the spiritual ability to understand the teachings of Christ under the New Covenant. Spiritual "babes" who have only received the Early Rain of the Spirit will remain carnally minded and spiritually blind. In that condition, the truth of Christ will remain concealed from their understanding. Then because their house remains empty of the truth, Satan will come to them via the spirit of anti-Christ and deceive them. After Satan does, the believer will lose their salvation and enter the apostate church. Spiritually speaking, the believer is now "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43-45) and has become a "man of sin".

In contrast to the way the New Covenant is taught by Christ, the Old Covenant teachings are literal and written for carnal mankind to understand. That is why "babes" have no problem understanding Christ's physical work which He did under the Old Covenant - work which led Him to the cross. This is why Paul made the statement below to the spiritual "babes" in the Corinthian church:

1Cor 2:2 For I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

1Cor 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

The reason the Corinthian church could not receive the spiritual teachings of the New Covenant was because they had only received the Early Rain of the Spirit. They were still carnally minded and spiritually blind. They could receive the carnal teachings of "Christ and Him crucified" but the spiritual truths of the New Covenant remained veiled to them.

Below is an easy example on the spiritual teachings of Christ where Christ uses the spiritual symbol "sword".

Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Does Christ really mean that if you use a sword to kill others, then you must likewise be killed with a sword? Literally, that is what He is saying. However, if we understand this verse literally, that statement can easily be proven to be false. There are countless examples of people who have used violence to kill others but then do not die from that same type of violence - it almost goes without saying.

Is Christ mistaken or is His message something else?

The spiritual language of the Word of God utilizes the Hebrew and Greek languages. However, Christ assigns meanings to the Hebrew and Greek words which are different from how they are commonly defined by mankind (1Cor 2:13).

In Matt 26:52, Christ is using the word SWORD to teach us a spiritual message. To understand what this spiritual symbol represents, we must look at how it is used elsewhere in scripture. In other words, we must compare spiritual things with spiritual.

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

From the verse presented above, it is easy to understand that the spiritual word SWORD represents the Word of God who is Christ.

Christ’s hidden spiritual point He is making in Matt 26:52 is that all who take up the Sword (those who are given the Early Rain of the Spirit), must perish (death of the carnal nature) by the Sword. This death is a necessary part of the conversion process which happens when the Word of God (Christ, the Sword) comes to a person and gives them the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the Baptism of Fire (judgment of the carnal nature):

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with Fire.

This same conversion event is what the Apostles experienced on the Day of Pentecost:

Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of FIRE, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the HOLY SPIRIT, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

In the spiritual language of Christ, the Apostles took up the Sword and then died by the SWORD.

As I have been saying in my other posts, salvation and the knowledge of the truth is reserved for ONLY the converted Elect during this age. All others will try to understand the teachings of Christ but will do so only in a carnal way (as you are doing). When they do this, they will fall backward, be broken, and snared and taken by Satan.

CONTINUED ON THE NEXT POST...

 

[FaithWillDo]

Thank you for sharing your interpretation of what all those scriptures are saying. After carefully reading through all of them, I came to the sad realization that we're worlds apart with our radically opposed interpretations of every single verse you cited.
There's nothing new or unusual about Christians holding to different interpretations, the Church is divided into 40,000+ Denominations, because they don't agree with each others systematic theology, views and interpretations.

Our views are so far apart, that I don't think we will find any common ground on how we understand the Bible. I've never come across anyone who shares your views before, so that immediately throws up a red flag. My Pastor warned us about anyone who comes up with something new, he said we need to treat them as wolves in sheep's clothing. God appointed Shepherds to lead local Churches, so as a Sheep I must obey God and listen to my Shepherd.

Our Pastor said, "there is nothing new under the sun, all things remain the same as they always have been". So with all due respect, I have no choice other than to reject all of your views as unbiblical. Please don't take this personally, I'm only conveying what my Pastor instructed me to say. I'm not trying to force our systematic theology on you, nor am I accusing you of being a heretic. My own family is radically divided over our different views and theology, that doesn't mean we don't love each other.

My own theology has fundamentally changed, according to some of my Roman Catholic family and friends, I have crossed over to join the enemy (the Protestant Church). I would never judge someone for holding to a different theological system, as that would make me a hypocrite, since I was a practicing Roman Catholic before I converted to Christianity. I believe everyone matures on the Christian journey, so views and understanding changes over time. That's why we can't judge anyone until their race is run.

CONTINUED FROM THE PREVIOUS POST...

One final point: the story of the Tower of Babel is a physical "type" which teaches a spiritual truth. This "type" is fulfilled by the nearly 2,000 different denominations/sects of the apostate church in this world - all of which teach their own versions of the truth. Their language is "confused" and they have become places where the "blind led the blind":

Luke 6:39 And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

But after a believer receives the Latter Rain of the Spirit, they will then be able to come unto the UNITY of the truth:

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man (converted), unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more babes (unconverted), tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Your belief that every person has the ability to understand the Gospel of Christ and the opportunity to be saved in this age is false.

Christ is the Savior and He alone does all the work of saving a person - and He decides when that will happen. In this age, Christ is only saving the Elect who were chosen from the foundation of the world. In the final age, the balance of mankind will be saved. No amount of supposed "free will" ability can change this truth.

Joe

 

[One 2 question]

Can you please confirm that you believe in the Triune Godhead, as described in the Bible to be the only One true God.

I wanted to clarify that, because you said "Praise our God", which suggests we believe in the same God. I mention this because you were referring to God, in the plural earlier.

Yes God being multiple, as in Moses record. Let Us make man in Our own image.

 

[Christian Soldier]

CONTINUED FROM THE PREVIOUS POST...

One final point: the story of the Tower of Babel is a physical "type" which teaches a spiritual truth. This "type" is fulfilled by the nearly 2,000 different denominations/sects of the apostate church in this world - all of which teach their own versions of the truth. Their language is "confused" and they have become places where the "blind led the blind":

Luke 6:39 And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

But after a believer receives the Latter Rain of the Spirit, they will then be able to come unto the UNITY of the truth:

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man (converted), unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more babes (unconverted), tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Your belief that every person has the ability to understand the Gospel of Christ and the opportunity to be saved in this age is false.

Christ is the Savior and He alone does all the work of saving a person - and He decides when that will happen. In this age, Christ is only saving the Elect who were chosen from the foundation of the world. In the final age, the balance of mankind will be saved. No amount of supposed "free will" ability can change this truth.

Joe

I'm sure you're well aware that there are currently more than 40,000 Christian Denominations, and the number is set to grow much higher. All of these Denominations came about due to their departure from the Church which Christ established. Jesus has been building His Church for the past 2000 and He will continue until every last elect Saint of God is added to His body.

The Bride of Christ (the Church) is made up of elect Saints, from every age. So it consists of believers who died over the past 6000, those who are living now and those who are yet to be born. God chose every single one of them before He created the world. That's what my Bible and my Shepherd tell me. Your interpretation is completely foreign to me, I've never heard of anything like it before so I can't accept that you have discovered some new truth or revelation, which my God appointed Shephard missed.

I read all of your recent posts, hoping to find some common ground, but regrettably I wasn't able to find anything that I could agree with. From where I stand, it looks like you have imposed your private unbiblical narrative to every scripture you cited. With that said, I have no choice other than to place your systematic theology among the other 40,000 opposing Denominational views.

At the end of the day, what you or I believe doesn't matter at all. The only thing that matters is that the truth remains the same forever, regardless of what we chose to believe. God is not mocked by any mans false doctrine, for every man will reap what he sows. God doesn't reward people based on how accurate their interpretation of the bible is, He's not impressed by our wisdom. He will reward us according to our works and not according to what theology we subscribe to.

So I think we're making a big deal out of nothing, there's no need to complicate the simplicity found in Christ. He simply said, "believe in Me and you shall be saved" and I'm glad He didn't add any other conditions to salvation. Sinful men came along after Christ ascended to heaven and added endless conditions to salvation, in order to create new Denominations by which they could become wealthy and powerful from the tithes and offerings they gouge from their congregations.

 

[Phoneman777]

Jesus said "pray always that you be able to escape these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man"

My thinking is that you might want to think about what Jesus said, before you suggest that "we should be alarmed"

Of course you are partially right, many will be alarmed - precisely because they have not prayed what they ought.

"alarmed" means "aware of danger". But, too many are "ignorant of the devil's devices" and, therefore, are fast asleep while danger lurks all around - right or wrong?

 

[FaithWillDo]

At the end of the day, what you or I believe doesn't matter at all.

Dear Christian Soldier,
You said:
The Bride of Christ (the Church) is made up of elect Saints, from every age. So it consists of believers who died over the past 6000, those who are living now and those who are yet to be born. God chose every single one of them before He created the world. That's what my Bible and my Shepherd tell me. Your interpretation is completely foreign to me, I've never heard of anything like it before so I can't accept that you have discovered some new truth or revelation, which my God appointed Shephard missed.

Your statement above matches to what I have been teaching. I can't imagine how you have come to believe that my understanding is contrary to that statement.

In this age, Christ is only saving the Elect - those chosen from the foundation of the world. They are saved not by anything that they did or will do. They are saved because Christ made the decision to do His spiritual work within them which changed their heart and mind. When His work is finished within them, they will be a "perfect man". The Elect are His workmanship.

To be saved, a person must go through the conversion process. The conversion process is 100% the work of Christ and the individual contributes nothing to it. The individual merely responds to Christ's work that He does within them.

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

The reason my overall understanding of scripture is foreign to you is because it contradicts the teachings of the 40,000 (not sure how you came to such a high number) different denominations of the apostate church. The one common factor all those apostate denominations have is that they teach a gospel that mixes works with faith. Some will claim that they don't believe in man's free will ability but when you examine their beliefs, it become clear that they do. I have never found even one denomination that is not apostate.

When a believer mixes works with faith, they are committing the sin that leads to death (loss of salvation). After this happens, the only thing that can restore the believer is the return of Christ where He pours out the Latter Rain of the Spirit. In this age, Christ will only return to the Elect. The many millions and millions of apostate believers in the 40,000 different denominations will not see His return before they die. That is how Christ causes His Elect to be saved while leaving the others unsaved.

If you can't agree with those statements above, then you are following Satan's false gospel and are apostate. This is a not a personal criticism of you because Christ causes EVERYONE who is called to be a saint (Early Rain of the Spirit) to fall away and become apostate (even His Elect). I was an apostate believer up until I was converted at the age of 44. If you take my comments as a personal criticism, it can mean that you are trying to add your own works to your salvation. When a believer adds their own works, they are saying that they don't really believe that Christ's works are sufficient to save them.

Most apostate believers take credit for their confession of faith and/or repentance. When they do, they are stealing from Christ who is the one who caused their confession to happen in the first place. He causes it to happen when He gives the person the Early Rain of the Spirit. Without the Spirit, they would never make a confession of faith nor would they even have a desire to seek Him out. As a result, they have no choice but to remain an unbeliever until they die. No amount of preaching would be able to change it.

This verse applies:

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

You said:
At the end of the day, what you or I believe doesn't matter at all. The only thing that matters is that the truth remains the same forever, regardless of what we chose to believe. God is not mocked by any mans false doctrine, for every man will reap what he sows. God doesn't reward people based on how accurate their interpretation of the bible is, He's not impressed by our wisdom. He will reward us according to our works and not according to what theology we subscribe to.

Without an understanding of the truth, a believer cannot be converted because judgment comes from having the truth of God within oneself. If a believer does not have the truth, they cannot not be saved.

John 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

The "sword" represents the Word of God which is truth. It is by that sword that Christ slays our carnality.

Isa 66:16 For by fire (judgment) and by his sword (God's Word) will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

Truth is what slays the man of sin (an apostate believer):

2Thes 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth (Spirit of Truth), and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

The Spirit of Truth is the Latter Rain of the Spirit and is what causes judgment to fall on a believer.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

The Apostles received the Spirit of Truth/Latter Rain of the Spirit on the Day of Pentecost. That is when they were converted and saved. And that is the same spiritual process that must happen to the other Elect for them to be converted and saved, too.

Back to your comments that you made above; those comments are coming from a "works" based belief system which you have applied to God's Word. That "works" based system comes from a person's carnality which has been made "worse than the first" by the spirit of anti-Christ. Filtering the truth of God's Word through that works based belief system is what causes a believer to become apostate.

When a person comes unto the knowledge of the truth, it happens ONLY because Christ healed their spiritual blindness so that the Marriage Supper of the Lamb/Lord's Supper can take place. The truth of Christ will remain concealed otherwise. No man has the ability to understand Christ without Christ first causing it to happen. That is what this "type" teaches below:

CONTINUED TO THE NEXT POST...

 

[FaithWillDo]

I'm sure you're well aware that there are currently more than 40,000 Christian Denominations, and the number is set to grow much higher. All of these Denominations came about due to their departure from the Church which Christ established. Jesus has been building His Church for the past 2000 and He will continue until every last elect Saint of God is added to His body.

The Bride of Christ (the Church) is made up of elect Saints, from every age. So it consists of believers who died over the past 6000, those who are living now and those who are yet to be born. God chose every single one of them before He created the world. That's what my Bible and my Shepherd tell me. Your interpretation is completely foreign to me, I've never heard of anything like it before so I can't accept that you have discovered some new truth or revelation, which my God appointed Shephard missed.

I read all of your recent posts, hoping to find some common ground, but regrettably I wasn't able to find anything that I could agree with. From where I stand, it looks like you have imposed your private unbiblical narrative to every scripture you cited. With that said, I have no choice other than to place your systematic theology among the other 40,000 opposing Denominational views.

At the end of the day, what you or I believe doesn't matter at all. The only thing that matters is that the truth remains the same forever, regardless of what we chose to believe. God is not mocked by any mans false doctrine, for every man will reap what he sows. God doesn't reward people based on how accurate their interpretation of the bible is, He's not impressed by our wisdom. He will reward us according to our works and not according to what theology we subscribe to.

So I think we're making a big deal out of nothing, there's no need to complicate the simplicity found in Christ. He simply said, "believe in Me and you shall be saved" and I'm glad He didn't add any other conditions to salvation. Sinful men came along after Christ ascended to heaven and added endless conditions to salvation, in order to create new Denominations by which they could become wealthy and powerful from the tithes and offerings they gouge from their congregations.

CONTINUED FROM THE PREVIOUS POST...

Mark 8:15 And he charged them, saying, take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod. 16 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, it is because we have no bread. 17 And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened? 18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember? 19 When I broke the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve. 20 And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven. 21 And he said unto them, how is it that ye do not understand?

In the verses above, Christ is giving His disciples a lesson on the spiritual language of God's Word - His language:

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

At this point in time (before they were converted at Pentecost), the disciples had received the Early Rain of the Spirit but had not yet received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain of the Spirit). And because of such, they were still spiritually blind and could not understand the spiritual language of Christ.

Christ ends His comments above by asking the disciples this question: “How is it that ye do not understand?” No response from the disciples is recorded in scripture. However, Christ answers His own question in the very next four verses.

Mark 8:22 And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him. 23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. 24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. 25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

Since Christ is the Word of God, He teaches us not only through His words which are recorded in scripture but also by the things that He did. In answering the question that He proposed to the disciples in verse 21, Christ goes to Bethsaida and gives us His answer in type by the healing of a blind man.

In verse 23, Christ leads a blind man out of the city. Once outside the city, Christ places spit on his eyes and touches him with His hands. These actions occur as the blind man is looking down which symbolizes the carnal aspect of His healing. Christ does not have to tell the blind man to look down, the blind man just does it naturally. The spit (water) symbolizes the blind man receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit with its accompanying vision (carnal understanding). This event represents the time when an unbeliever is called out from the world and enters the church.

After Christ asks the man what he could see, the man looks up and says that he could see men "walking as trees". "Walking as trees" is a spiritual symbol for called out believers who walk by sight (the flesh, carnal nature) rather than by faith & the Spirit. The man’s blindness was not total any longer but he was still very near-sighted and could only see Christ carnally. Paul stated that this near-sighted type of understanding will only allow a believer to see "Christ and Him crucified" (1Cor 2:2). This means that the new believer can see Christ's physical work that He did under the Old Covenant, but Christ's spiritual work that He is presently doing under the New Covenant will remain blurred.

This first healing of the blind man reflects the true spiritual condition of a new believer when they first enter the church. At this time, the believer is left carnally minded and spiritually near-sighted. They can see a little, but that only opens the door to Satan's carnally based deceptions - deceptions which each new believer will readily accept due to their carnal nature still being in control of them (Mat 12:43-45, Mat 24:24 & Luke 5:39).

For a carnally minded and spiritually blind believer (Early Rain only), the Old Wine still tastes better than the New Wine:

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desires the new: for he says, The old is better.

The Old Wine represents the Old Covenant which is based on the works of man. The New Wine represents the New Covenant which is solely based on the spiritual works of Christ.

Peter says that this near-sighted condition is the same as being blind:

2Pet 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

Peter makes this statement because the believers to whom he was addressing were mixing their own works with faith. They were still preferring the Old Wine.

In the final verse of the story of the blind man, Christ lays His hands upon the man’s eyes again, but as He does, Christ has the man look up instead of down. This second healing represents the Latter Rain of the Spirit when true spiritual vision is given to a believer. The man’s upward gaze represents the spiritual aspect of the healing in contrast to the carnal aspect when the blind man was looking down at the earth.

From that moment onward, we now know that the blind man is a type for a called AND chosen believer who has received both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit (James 5:7-8). The man has been given eyes that can see spiritually ("drawn from the breasts" Isa 28:9). From his new ability to understand God's Word, he will then come out from Satan's deceptions and will begin walking by faith. He will be included in the resurrection of the First Fruits and will receive the reward of life during the ages.

Joe