Elect or Not Elect: Why ALL Should Be Alarmed

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Earburner

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I never said Antiochus waxed "exceeding great" - I've said the opposite because he was not the least bit great.
Correct! The scripture is simply meaning that AE-lV had BIG dreams of himself, an unreachable goal of being greater than great, in what he hoped to accomplish.

His words on his death bed:
1 Mac. 6:1-16
[8] Now when the king [AE-lV] heard these words, he was astonished and sore moved: whereupon he laid him down upon his bed, and fell sick for grief, because it had not befallen him as he LOOKED FOR.
[9] And there he continued many days: for his grief was ever more and more, and he made account that he should die.
[10] Wherefore he called for all his friends, and said unto them, The sleep is gone from mine eyes, and my heart faileth for very care.
[11] And I thought with myself, Into what tribulation am I come, and how great a flood of misery is it, wherein now I am! for I was bountiful and beloved in my power.
[12] But now I remember the evils that I did at Jerusalem, and that I took all the vessels of gold and silver that were therein, and sent to destroy the inhabitants of Judea without a cause.
[13] I perceive therefore that for this cause these troubles are come upon me, and, behold, I perish through great grief in a strange land.
[14] Then called he for Philip, one of his friends, who he made ruler over all his realm,
[15] And gave him the crown, and his robe, and his signet, to the end he should bring up his son Antiochus, and nourish him up for the kingdom.
[16] So king Antiochus [Epiphanes] died there in the hundred forty and ninth year [149BC].
 
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Earburner

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I don't know where you get this info from. Did God give it to you directly? If so can you tell me more. Thanks
I simply read and study the KJV only, but I do examine "Strongs Concordance" for understanding specific words, and how they are used for meaning within their context.
However, in that process, I always remain open to "the mind of Christ" who is within me, being aware that His perspective is from God's point of view, and NOT that of my human mind of "the natural man", aka "the man of sin".
1 Cor. 2
[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the [Holy Spirit] power [authority] of God.
 
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Earburner

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I guess a simple question would be, if Satan asked God's permission to go tempt Job, He had every right to deny Satan's request. But God didn't.
Yes. God allows and uses Satan in his fallen condition to buffet us with trials and temptations, so that we can be chastised/corrected (not condemned) when we are not living in the ways of walking in the fruit [character] of His Holy Spirit.
Heb. 12:11.
Gal. 5
[22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
[24] And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
[25] If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
[26] Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
I guess that may have been on Jesus mind when He taught His disciples how to pray. Led us not into temptation, as You did Me and Job, as You will Peter and Judas. Jesus knew how challenging it is to be tempted by Father, especially when His Father has spirit's like Satan at His disposal. Add to him His very Own Spirit Who has led people into temptation, including Father's only begotten Son.

Jas.1

[13] Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
 

Phoneman777

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Though you may not take the time to examine the Jewish historical account of the cleansing of the sanctuary and the temple, I posted it here-
1 Mac. 4
[36] Then said Judas [Maccabeus] and his brethren, Behold, our enemies are discomfited: let us go up to cleanse and dedicate the sanctuary.
[37] Upon this all the host [army of Israel] assembled themselves together, and went up into mount Sion.
[38] And when they saw [eye witnessed] the sanctuary desolate, and the altar profaned, and the gates burned up, and shrubs growing in the courts as in a forest, or in one of the mountains, yea, and the priests' chambers pulled down;
[39] They rent their clothes, and made great lamentation, and cast ashes upon their heads,
[40] And fell down flat to the ground upon their faces, and blew an alarm with the trumpets, and cried toward heaven.
[41] Then Judas appointed certain men to fight against those that were in the fortress, until he had cleansed the sanctuary.

[42] So he chose priests of blameless conversation, such as had pleasure in the law:
[43] Who cleansed the sanctuary, and bare out the defiled stones into an unclean place.

[44] And when as they consulted what to do with the altar of burnt offerings, which was profaned;
[45] They thought it best to pull it down, lest it should be a reproach to them, because the heathen had defiled it: wherefore they pulled it down,
[46] And laid up the stones in the mountain of the temple in a convenient place, until there should come a prophet to shew what should be done with them.
[47] Then they took whole stones according to the law, and built a new altar according to the former;
[48] And made up the sanctuary, and the things that were within the temple, and hallowed the courts.
[49] They made also new holy vessels, and into the temple they brought the candlestick, and the altar of burnt offerings, and of incense, and the table.
[50] And upon the altar they burned incense, and the lamps that were upon the candlestick they lighted, that they might give light in the temple.
[51] Furthermore they set the loaves upon the table, and spread out the veils, and finished all the works which they had begun to make.
[52] Now on the five and twentieth day of the ninth month, which is called the month Casleu, in the hundred forty and eighth
[148th] year, they rose up betimes in the morning,
[53] And offered sacrifice according to the law upon the new altar of burnt offerings, which they had made.

[54] Look, at what time and what day the heathen had profaned it, even in that was it dedicated with songs, and citherns, and harps, and cymbals.
[55] Then all the people fell upon their faces, worshipping and praising the God of heaven, who had given them good success.
[56] And so they kept the dedication of the altar eight days and offered burnt offerings with gladness, and sacrificed the sacrifice of deliverance and praise.
[57] They decked also the forefront of the temple with crowns of gold, and with shields; and the gates and the chambers they renewed, and hanged doors upon them.
[58] Thus was there very great gladness among the people, for that the reproach of the heathen was put away.

Today, we all know of that Jewish celebration as being Hanaukkah
Josephus says the temple desecration lasted 1260 days which is well beyond 1150 and nowhere near 2300 - and that other historians claim it lasted 1090 days, which far less than 1150 and far more short of the 2300.

Understand?

Not even Common Core math can turn 1090 or 1260 into 1150 or 2300.
 

Earburner

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Josephus says the temple desecration lasted 1260 days which is well beyond 1150 and nowhere near 2300 - and that other historians claim it lasted 1090 days, which far less than 1150 and far more short of the 2300.

Understand?

Not even Common Core math can turn 1090 or 1260 into 1150 or 2300.
I never said the temple/sanctuary was desecrated for 2300 days. I said what Daniel means. The prophecy in Daniel says that it was "for 1290 days", concerning two separate events.

Dan.12

[11] And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety [1290] days.
[12] Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty [1335] days [45 days later].
 

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Yes. God allows and uses Satan in his fallen condition to buffet us with trials and temptations, so that we can be chastised/corrected (not condemned) when we are not living in the ways of walking in the fruit [character] of His Holy Spirit.
Is this the only reason God uses Satan, to buffet us with trials and temptations so that we can be chastised/corrected?

And is it only when we are not living in the ways of walking in the fruit [character] of His Holy Spirit?
 

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It is recorded that Jesus was led into temptation by His Father. How? By His Spirit. Who did the tempting. Satan. Who organised the whole event? Wouldnt you say it was Jesus's sovereign Father.

As with Job one might say. Father says to Satan, have you considered my son Jesus, upright in all His ways and faithful in worshipping only Me?

Satan says, give me some time with him and I'll get him to worship me.

God says, your request has been granted. I'll lead him into a wilderness and after 40 days there he's yours to tempt.
 

Earburner

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It is recorded that Jesus was led into temptation by His Father. How? By His Spirit. Who did the tempting. Satan. Who organised the whole event? Wouldnt you say it was Jesus's sovereign Father.

As with Job one might say. Father says to Satan, have you considered my son Jesus, upright in all His ways and faithful in worshipping only Me?

Satan says, give me some time with him and I'll get him to worship me.

God says, your request has been granted. I'll lead him into a wilderness and after 40 days there he's yours to tempt.

In His innocence (being without sin, from His virgin birth to his mortal death), was not Jesus the last Adam, being Himself made to be more than a living soul?

1Cor.15

[45] And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Heb.10

[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
 
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Phoneman777

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I never said the temple/sanctuary was desecrated for 2300 days. I said what Daniel means. The prophecy in Daniel says that it was "for 1290 days", concerning two separate events.

Dan.12

[11] And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety [1290] days.
[12] Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty [1335] days [45 days later].
The prophecy of Daniel 8 says the sanctuary would continue to be polluted for 2300 days...therefore, since Antiochus cannot be shown to have done so, he is not the Little Horn.
 
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One 2 question

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In His innocence (being without sin, from His virgin birth to his mortal death), was not Jesus the last Adam, being Himself made to be more than a living soul?

1Cor.15

[45] And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Heb.10

[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
I'm not sure of the relevance of your post to mine.
 

Christian Soldier

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Dear Phoneman777,
Yes, there is a power controlling the thoughts and beliefs of mankind. It is a spiritual power and it originates from God.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Prov 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.


Nothing in God's creation happens by chance or by mankind's supposed "free will" - and this includes all the evil in the world.

Prov 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Ecc 1:13 An experience of evil God has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

Lam 3:38 Out of the mouth of the Most High doth not there proceed evil and good?


Never doubt that God is in full control of His creation. He never just allows things to happen because He causes all things to happen.
Because God is in full control, the Elect (a chosen and converted person) should not fight against the evil of this world. The Elect should only being doing "good works" and teaching the truth to others whom God has placed in their path.

2Ti 2:4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Gal 6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

Consider the evil that was in the world during the time of Christ and the Apostles. Did they fight against it or were they only concerned with teaching the truth and doing good?

And just as Christ and Apostles lived, so should the Elect be living in this world.

One other comment: The "endtimes" has been happening since the Apostles were converted on the Day of Pentecost. The end of the ages is not physical and outward, it is spiritual and inward. The ends of the ages come upon an Elect person when they are converted:

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

The only prophesied event that has not occurred yet is the bodily resurrections from the grave. Those resurrections will come after the last Elect person has been converted.

All the prophesies of Revelation and Matthew (among others) are teaching about the spiritual events (signs of the times) that will occur within each Elect person as they travel to their time of conversion. The signs of the times presented by these prophesies are not outward world events which can be seen with human eyes. That is a carnal understanding of God's Word.

The evil that is in the world today is no different than it has been since the world began. It has been ebbing and flowing since Adam/Eve first sinned. After God's purpose for evil has run its course, evil will come to an end. It will end after the last person of mankind has been converted from a child of the Devil into a child of God.

These verses apply:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1Cor 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection from the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the consummation, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

After the last person of mankind has been converted, the ages will come to an end. This day is foreshadowed by the Feast of Ingathering (Tabernacles).

Exo 23:16 And the feast of harvest, the firstfruits of thy labours (the salvation of the Elect of this age), which thou hast sown in the field: and the feast of ingathering, which is in the end of the year (the final age when the balance of mankind is saved), when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field.

When that last & great day of the Feast arrives, Christ will make this call to the "lost" and all mankind will be saved:

John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, if any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Until that final day, the Elect must wait on the Lord to complete His great work. This is the patience of the saints.

Joe
If your interpretation of the scriptures you cited to suggest that all of mankind will be saved in the end, are correct then that would have very serious implications for the authority of God's Word. There is nothing in the Bible to suggest that all mankind will be saved, to the contrary, Jesus said many professing Christians will be cast into hell forever.

Matt: 7:22-23 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Matt 25:41
“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Jesus talked about hell more than anyone else in the Bible. He describes it as a place where those who don't know Him will be cast into to be tormented forever. There is nothing to suggest that they somehow find a way out and repent at a future time.
 

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If your interpretation of the scriptures you cited to suggest that all of mankind will be saved in the end, are correct then that would have very serious implications for the authority of God's Word. There is nothing in the Bible to suggest that all mankind will be saved, to the contrary, Jesus said many professing Christians will be cast into hell forever.

Matt: 7:22-23 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Matt 25:41
“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Jesus talked about hell more than anyone else in the Bible. He describes it as a place where those who don't know Him will be cast into to be tormented forever. There is nothing to suggest that they somehow find a way out and repent at a future time.
It is great to receive God's thoughts that are not brought up in the extremly limited book called the bible.

Obviously God had not revealed all His thoughts by the time the bible was compiled. God's never ending story including His never ending thoughts are exactly that, never ending and will never be exhausted.

So it is exciting to receive further revelation of our Creators from our Creators. I know for one, I'm very blessed to have a close relationship with Them, to be in constant contact and communication with Them.

The bible served to point me to Them but now I hardly use this tool because I have Them. When a treasure hunter uses the treasure map to find the treasure they don't require the map to find what they already possess.

At times I placed so much value and importance on the map that it almost became more important than the treasure.

I repented of that, now that I've found my love (treasure) in my Creators Themselves. I can't see myself going back to the map. In fact for me it almost caused me to stop seeking to find Them as I had the precious holy bible. I have found and enjoy the Precious Holy Spirit of God and nothing comes even close to being as important and precious and valuable as Them.

Praise be to God for He is sovereign and is so full of love. They comfort, protect and provide for me more and more each day.

They are going to redeem all of Their creations which is bringing Them glory and pleasure in the process and in its fulfilment.