Elect or Not Elect: Why ALL Should Be Alarmed

[Phoneman777]

So you aren't saying that those of us who have received the same Holy Ghost aren't being moved by the same Spirit are you?

As a Christian who preaches church sermons from time to time, I always ask God to guide me by His Spirit when I sit down to think of a topic and then develop it for presentation.

Do you think those sermons should be esteemed as equal to the writings of Isaiah, Paul, and John? Why not?

 

[Phoneman777]

Is this a formula, condition, evidence that must accompany a true prophetic experience?
1. fall down weak
2. become supernaturally strong
3. remain open eyed
4. without breathing
5. whilst in vision as in the Bible

Who conceived this? Were they a Holy man, inspired by God through the Holy Ghost?

It's the Biblical criteria for what happens when a prophet goes into vision, which is found "in the mouth of two witnesses" - in Numbers and Daniel - maybe elsewhere, too.

The wording in Numbers suggests it's a given that these are experienced by all who go into vision, while the depth of detail with Daniel's experience indeed affirms it's what happens.

 

[Phoneman777]

You should be careful of how you mean the above scripture. Jesus Himself is the Light of the world, not the 10C Law. However, since He is the only being who has ever fulfilled the Law, the Righteousness of God, which is NOT of or by the Law, is freely given to all, who HAVE BEEN converted to Christ. :)

Proverbs 6:23 KJV
For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:

Psalms 19:8 KJV
The commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.

That's why Isaiah says there's no light in them that speak contrary to the "law and the testimony".

 

[Phoneman777]

Again, absolutely have been, are and will be more to come until the church is brought to full maturity and is complete.

I speak from experience. It's brilliant, awesome, inspiring, uplifting and continually develops increased faith in such a wonderful God. Personally this is one of the miriad of fruit the indwelling Holy Ghost has produced in me. Him Who does everything according to Creators' will, for Their pleasure and glory.

But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. Jesus said this. The greatest Prophet of all. Matt 13:16&17

We get to see and know more than prophets pre Jesus.

Not everyone is called to be a "prophet" - the Holy Spirit doles out Holy Spirit gifts "severally" not corporately. As for the "chills in church" - people get euphoric at football games or Beyonce concerts, but God is in none of it.

 

[Phoneman777]

Out of interest, how do you know this to be true? Have you spent a lot of time interacting with Holy Ghost filled and moved people over the past 2000 years? If you haven't then I'm not sure if what you claim grants you to be an authority in this area.

"To the law and to the testimony; if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them". - Isaiah 8:20 KJV

Since "many" will argue "have we not prophesied/cast out demons/done great wonders in Thy name" before taking a swim in Fire Lake, one need to interact with church members for the past 2000 years in order to conclude this.

For you and I could also be inpacted, influenced and even moved along by another spirit from time to time. Also I can be moved along by my own thoughts and desires. What about you?

I speak according to "the law and to the testimony".

For God even deceives people, not just Satan.

I prefer to say God allows deception to ensnare those who hate Him, like Ahab. Allowing it is not the same as authoring it, as you suggest He does.

 

[Phoneman777]

Haha. Never tried hearing cats.

I used to like formulas. They can be very predictable, not like the Holy Ghost Who is like the wind, blowing wherever He wants.

Trying to get someone to do something can be very challenging, especially something they aren't comfortable or confident in doing. How are you with being moved along by the Holy Ghost to discern what spirit someone is being moved along by?

When the Holy Ghost carries out Father's will and produces a strong delusion so the people believe a lie, are you going to acknowledge it as being from God or Satan? Time will tell.

God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie. 2 Thess 2:11

The testimony of Scripture concerning God's character demands we understand that the verse "...shall send them strong delusion" refers to God allowing delusion...removing His hand of protection from it...granting death to those who desire that more than righteousness.

 

[Phoneman777]

First of all, you are not understanding what the word "waxed" means.

Means "grow" - which AE IV most certain did not toward the South, right or wrong?

If you did, you would understand that AE-lV had the desire to exceed beyond the greatness of great.

So what? I have a desire to be the world's first trillionaire - does that make me "exceed beyond great"?

You better look hard into who is saying what, as to who is running amuck with preconceived "opinions".

I spit facts, bro.

Here are just a few:
1. You want to make the 2300 day prophecy into being "years",

Yes, because consistent eschatological interpretation keeps us on track, which is why you're so far off track.

But I bring it back into focus, revealing that it truly is scripturally "days", with all of it taking place before Jesus' first appearance.

Perhaps you missed the part about the 2300 Days being part of a prophetic vision filled with symbolic elements which much be assigned interpretation? Yes, you've def missed that.

2. You want to call a "host" angels,
But I bring it back to scriptural reality, revealing that a "host" describes "armies of men".

"host" applies to both men and angels and in the case of the 2300 Days, it applies only to angels because the only sanctuary in existence in 1844 is the heavenly sanctuary surrounded by heavenly angels.

3. You want to apply the words: "cut off" to be something, however you have not yet provided the scripture to validate your understanding of what you think is "cut off",

Really?

Gabriel said the 70 Weeks are "determined" aka "cut off" aka "amputated".

The word "chatak" means "cut off" or "amputate" - to show Daniel that the 2300 Days of continued temple pollution didn't refer to the Jerusalem temple which would be "restored and rebuilt".

But I reel you in and point you directly to the scripture of Dan. 9:26, which clearly states that it is the Messiah who is "cut off", but not for himself. You have made no comment.

See above comment.

4. You have pushed the "little horn" out into the far future, being that of the Papacy,

Yes, because the vision (of the cleansing of the sanctuary) would be in "the time of the end" or "the distant future" - not in a mere 6 years when they'd cleanse Solomon's temple after the the Antiochus pork BBQ.

But I put the fulfilled prophetic words in your sight, of which history, both secular and Jewish, emphatically reveal, that the "little horn" WAS Antiochus Epiphanes lV, in the latter time of the 3rd beast, the Grecian empire, and that there is no other "little horn", that is still to come.

If you think AE IV was "exceeding great" over Alex the Great or the MP that alone disqualifies you to teach on prophecy.

5. You want to make the "little horn" to have risen later from out of the 10H of the Roman Empire,
But I have shown that AE-lV (the one and only "little horn") rose "among the 10 horns" of the Roman Republic, because AE-lV himself was NOT OF the 10 horns, but rather he was of the Grecian Empire, during it's "latter times".

Did you miss the part about how the Ten Horns - among which the Little Horn rises - COME OUT OF THE FOURTH BEAST WHICH IS ROME?

 

[One 2 question]

As a Christian who preaches church sermons from time to time, I always ask God to guide me by His Spirit when I sit down to think of a topic and then develop it for presentation.

Do you think those sermons should be esteemed as equal to the writings of Isaiah, Paul, and John? Why not?

If you really want to know how God grades your sermons then ask the Spirit to reveal it to you. I honestly don't know how He rates what He does through people.

The thing I'm confident of is that They will do what They have planned whether I am involved or not. And if I am involved it, it is Them doing it through me anyway.

Now how they rate Themselves or compare what They do in and through differerent people, if indeed They do, I don't know.

 

[One 2 question]

It's the Biblical criteria for what happens when a prophet goes into vision, which is found "in the mouth of two witnesses" - in Numbers and Daniel - maybe elsewhere, too.

The wording in Numbers suggests it's a given that these are experienced by all who go into vision, while the depth of detail with Daniel's experience indeed affirms it's what happens.

This is not worth me responding to as it's just another formula.

 

[Earburner]

So, who took away the "daily" for 2300 Days?

Antiochus Epiphanes lV took away the daily sacrifice.

Jesus pointed back in history to that prophesied and fulfilled event in Daniel. Not for reasons of our far future, but rather for Jesus' immediate future, while He was in His mortal flesh:
Mark 13
[14] But when ye [Israel] shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea*** flee to the mountains:
John 2
[18] Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
[19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy [desolate] this temple, and in three days I will raise [resurrect] it up [cleanse*/restore**].
[20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
[21] But he [using typology] spake of the temple of his body.

*Q. WHY would Jesus have to cleanse His mortal body (temple)?
A. He was the "Lamb of God", "the sin bearer" of all the world, for every man.
Heb. 9
[28] So Christ was once offered to bear [G5343- to take/carry up] the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Edit:
Q. Do you know which one of the seven abominations against God Himself was the seventh, that He added onto the original six?
A. Proverbs 6:16-17- "hands that shed innocent blood"

**Q. What did Jesus restore his old mortal life to?
A. New Eternal Life, having Immortality.

From post #402:
Daniel 8
[13] Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How LONG shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give BOTH the sanctuary and the host [army of Israel] to be trodden under foot?
[14] And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred [2300]  DAYS; THEN [45 days later] shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Please read the overview in 1 Maccabees 1:1-64. All the details are in 1&2 Maccabees, and is to be read and studied in conjunction with Daniel Ch. 8-12

1Mac.1​

[54] Now the fifteenth day of the month Casleu, in the hundred forty and fifth [145] year [in Jewish time], they [of AE-lV] set up the abomination of desolation upon the altar, and builded idol altars throughout the cities of Juda***on every side;

***Note: "While Judah denotes a specific tribe and its associated kingdom, Judea represents a broader geopolitical territory, whose name was likely derived from the earlier existence of the Kingdom of Judah."

 

[Phoneman777]

If you really want to know how God grades your sermons then ask the Spirit to reveal it to you. I honestly don't know how He rates what He does through people.

The thing I'm confident of is that They will do what They have planned whether I am involved or not. And if I am involved it, it is Them doing it through me anyway.

Now how they rate Themselves or compare what They do in and through differerent people, if indeed They do, I don't know.

It seems you've dodged the question, so I'll answer it for you:

No - my sermons, however the Holy Spirit guides my thinking when composing them, are not to be esteemed as on par with Scripture.

 

[Phoneman777]

This is not worth me responding to as it's just another formula.

Suit yourself. For centuries, men have stumbled over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened.

 

[Phoneman777]

Antiochus Epiphanes lV took away the daily sacrifice.

The text doesn't say the Little Horn takes away the daily sacrifice because "sacrifice" is not in the Hebrew. It says he takes away the "daily" (Hebrew: "tamid") which refers to the entire sanctuary service - not just the burnt offering. Antiochus did no such thing.

Also:

Josephus says Antiochus suspended the sacrifice for 3 1/2 years aka 1260 days which is well beyond 1150 and no where near 2300 literal days. Other authorities say he suspended it for 3 years and 10 days aka 1090 days which is well shy of 1150 and, again, no where near 2300 literal days.

See? Antiochus' anti-temple shenanigans simply cannot fit the prophecy!

 

[One 2 question]

Not everyone is called to be a "prophet" - the Holy Spirit doles out Holy Spirit gifts "severally" not corporately

It sounds like you are again trying to say how the Spirit must work and can't work.

Some would say that if the Spirit does something a certain way He will always do it that way. Because God is consistent.

It seems you've dodged the question, so I'll answer it for you:

No - my sermons, however the Holy Spirit guides my thinking when composing them, are not to be esteemed as on par with Scripture.

If God told you this, then that's His truth to you. Who am I to say otherwise. I hope that blesses you as you are a blessing to Christ body, the church.

 

[Earburner]

The text doesn't say the Little Horn takes away the daily sacrifice because "sacrifice" is not in the Hebrew. It says he takes away the "daily" (Hebrew: "tamid") which refers to the entire sanctuary service - not just the burnt offering. Antiochus did no such thing.

Correct, the entire sanctuary service was removed! I briefly mentioned it as being simply "the daily sacrifice" in general, because the details of it in 1 Maccabees does list it out, whereby AE-lV took it ALL to his own dwelling place.
1 Mac. 1
[21] And [AE-lV] entered proudly into the sanctuary, and took away the golden altar, and the candlestick of light, and all the vessels thereof,
[22] And the table of the shewbread, and the pouring vessels, and the vials. and the censers of gold, and the VEIL, and the crown, and the golden ornaments that were before the temple, all which he pulled off.
[23] He took also the silver and the gold, and the precious vessels: also he took the hidden treasures which he found.
[24] And when he had taken all away, he went into his own land, having made a great massacre, and spoken very proudly.
[25] Therefore there was a great mourning in Israel, in every place where they were;
[26] So that the princes and elders mourned, the virgins and young men were made feeble, and the beauty of women was changed.

Now since Jesus Himself pointed to Daniel, as being the source of prophetic information, for the details of the event of the "AoD", I for one am going to trust the historical record by the people of Daniel first ("thy people") for the accurate recording of what actually transpired against them, through the hands of AE-lV.

Also:

Josephus says Antiochus suspended the sacrifice for 3 1/2 years aka 1260 days which is well beyond 1150 and no where near 2300 literal days. Other authorities say he suspended it for 3 years and 10 days aka 1090 days which is well shy of 1150 and, again, no where near 2300 literal days.

See? Antiochus' anti-temple shenanigans simply cannot fit the prophecy!

And of course the same shenanigans occur over when "the commandment" was given to rebuild Jeruselem in the time of Artexerxes. 465-424BC
Why then did such a commandment have to be given?
Because, the temple and Jerusalem had been destroyed by the Babylonions in 539BC, but then AFTER it was rebuilt, it would AGAIN be desolated/destroyed by AE-lV, during the prophecy of the 2300 DAYS.

As you can see the previous time of desolation of the Temple, had nothing to do with the rebuilt temple, concerning AE-lV and the desolation that he brought.

NOTE: The sanctuary and the Temple building was NEVER REBUILT after the Roman Titus destroyed it PERMANENTLY. And that of its structure, WIll NEVER BE BUILT AGAIN, even to the consummation!! Dan.9:27

However, the sanctuary of the temple was cleansed/restored by Judas Maccabeus FIRST, being 45 DAYS later, AFTER the 2300 DAYS of being "trodden down" by AE-lV.

1Mac.4​

[36] Then said Judas [Maccabeus] and his brethren, Behold, our enemies are discomfited: let us go up to cleanse and dedicate the sanctuary.
[38] And when they saw [being eye witnesses] the sanctuary desolate, and the altar profaned, and the gates burned up, and shrubs growing in the courts as in a forest, or in one of the mountains, yea, and the priests' chambers pulled down;
[41] Then Judas appointed certain men to fight against those that were in the fortress, until he HAD cleansED the sanctuary.
[43] Who cleansed the sanctuary, and bare out the defiled stones into an unclean place.
[48] And made up the sanctuary, and the things that were within the temple, and hallowed the courts.

In the time of Jesus, what did the Pharisees say to Jesus?
John 2[20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years  WAS this TEMPLE in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
> Yes, the TEMPLE was rebuilt in 46 years, BUT THE SANCTUARY, was ALREADY cleansed/restored by Judas Maccabeus.

"Judas Maccabeus (died 161/160 BCE)"

Judas Maccabeus | History, Hanukkah, & The Hammer | Britannica

Judas Maccabeus was a Jewish guerrilla leader who defended his country from invasion by the Seleucid king Antiochus IV Epiphanes, preventing the imposition of Hellenism upon Judaea, and preserving the Jewish religion. The son of Mattathias, an aged priest who took to the mountains in rebellion when

www.britannica.com

 

[One 2 question]

Since "many" will argue "have we not prophesied/cast out demons/done great wonders in Thy name" before taking a swim in Fire Lake, one need to interact with church members for the past 2000 years in order to conclude this.

I was not thinking of those who pretend to prophesy or are counterfeit prophets.

Obviously I was refering to those who were specifically chosen to prophesy as members of Jesus's Church. And we are prophesying as we are being enabled to do so by a Ghost, the Holy Ghost. Christ is building and growing His body the church and there is no one or nothing that can stop this from happening. Yay! Christ is sovereign!

 

[One 2 question]

I prefer to say God allows deception to ensnare those who hate Him, like Ahab. Allowing it is not the same as authoring it, as you suggest He does.

Doesn't your bible say that 'the LORD has put' and 'the LORD hath spoken'? I don't see the word allow in there.

1Ki 22:20-23 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

Was the prophet Micaiah a false prophet or was he just lying when he when he came to this conclusion...
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

 

[Earburner]

Proverbs 6:23 KJV
For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:

Psalms 19:8 KJV
The commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.

That's why Isaiah says there's no light in them that speak contrary to the "law and the testimony".

Jesus Himself has eclipsed the light of the 10C Law by fulfilling the Law. Therefore, He Himself is the Righteousness of God, being Himself the Light of the world.
To say otherwise is to denounce the work of Christ, because the Righteousness of God does not come to us by way of keeping the 10C Law, but rather is Gifted to us by having faith in Jesus, and becoming "born again" by His Spirit.

 

[Earburner]

As a Christian who preaches church sermons from time to time, I always ask God to guide me by His Spirit when I sit down to think of a topic and then develop it for presentation.

Do you think those sermons should be esteemed as equal to the writings of Isaiah, Paul, and John? Why not?

It is apparent to me that you are bought and sold by your denomination. Being that of the heirarchal doctrines and traditions of your form of godliness in church-ianity.

The fact that you publicly preach sermons at times in your assembly, speaks volumes to me, that you have become staunch and hard-core (indoctrinated), being no different than the Priests of the RCC, who have also swallowed their own form of doctrines, hook line and sinker.
1 Cor. 2:5
"ALL of the churches have SOME of His truth, but NONE of the churches have ALL of His truth"- Earburner

 

[Earburner]

Means "grow" - which AE IV most certain did not toward the South, right or wrong?

AE's deepest desire was to exceed at being GREATER than great. Whether he met his singular goal or not doesn't matter, because the words DON'T IMPLY that he would or he wouldn't achieve his goal.

So what? I have a desire to be the world's first trillionaire - does that make me "exceed beyond great"?

Your example proves what I said.

I spit facts, bro.

Historically speaking, facts are literal.

Spiritually speaking, facts can be figuratve.
1 Cor. 2
[13] Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Yes, because consistent eschatological interpretation keeps us on track, which is why you're so far off track.

You may think you are on track, but you far off on a tangent, and have missed the mark.
"There can always be MORE than one lie, but there can never be MORE than one truth"- Earburner

Perhaps you missed the part about the 2300 Days being part of a prophetic vision filled with symbolic elements which much be assigned interpretation? Yes, you've def missed that.

The 70 weeks of years is not part of the 2300 literal days.
It's simply a concoction, fabricated by the SDAs, because Miller was terribly wrong in his "date setting".

"host" applies to both men and angels and in the case of the 2300 Days, it applies only to angels because the only sanctuary in existence in 1844 is the heavenly sanctuary surrounded by heavenly angels.

Prove to me that mere men can cast angels to the literal ground.

Really?

Gabriel said the 70 Weeks are "determined" aka "cut off" aka "amputated".

The word "chatak" means "cut off" or "amputate" - to show Daniel that the 2300 Days of continued temple pollution didn't refer to the Jerusalem temple which would be "restored and rebuilt".

Sorry, the context of 9:24 begs for the alternative word "decree" and not "cut off". Simply put, the six works of God in that verse, were "decreed" and listed of what Jesus was to accomplish and "Finish".

See above comment.

Yes, because the vision (of the cleansing of the sanctuary) would be in "the time of the end" or "the distant future" - not in a mere 6 years when they'd cleanse Solomon's temple after the the Antiochus pork BBQ.

What did you think, that only a couple of people were cleansing the SANCTUARY??
Read the details 1 Maccabees. Do your homework!

If you think AE IV was "exceeding great" over Alex the Great or the MP that alone disqualifies you to teach on prophecy.

Already proved my point above, but you choose to ignore it.

Did you miss the part about how the Ten Horns - among which the Little Horn rises - COME OUT OF THE FOURTH BEAST WHICH IS ROME?

Far from missing it, I simply revealed a literal fact of who AE-lV was. It's you who wants to side step and side track.

AE-lV was of the Grecian Empire, "in the latter time" of the 3rd beast, while the 4th beast was just coming on to be, but was far from being an Empire, being only a Republic at that time.
AE-lV did rise among the 10H,....but, HE WAS NOT OF THEM. He was the only "little horn" that will ever be!