Do you believe this is...

[face2face]

SO you still wont answer my questions. You're playing games.

WHy would Christ need to overcome heaven if no divine being can sin? You contradicted yourself.

Overcome Heaven?

These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you [b]will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.

Yes Lord, that you did!

How does the Lord's prayer go again?

 

[face2face]

I notice that you you seem to quietly refuse to speak about spirits. I guess you dont like approaching that subject.

Scizophrenic! I guess that prolonged demon possession can lead to mental disorders. That makes sense.

Yes, there is a lot of that demon possession going around these days

 

[face2face]

@Wrangler

While you are looking at Luke 10:18 lets discuss your question in more detail.

2 Peter 1:3-4 states

“His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire” (ESV).

This verse presents a number of problems for those who believe in fallen angels.

1. The verse plainly says that believers are made “partakers of the divine nature” through God’s promises,
2. What extent do we partake on God's Nature?
3. Every human being is born with a sin (prone) nature; which is due to its weak substance which has a bent toward pleasing self (Romans 5:12; 7:14)

Our natural selves cannot please God HOWEVER, to imply that our future Divine Selves is incapable of pleasing God brings God's very nature into question. In fact what you are saying is "I believe there to be no benefit at all in taking on God's Divine nature because I will still have the free will to sin!"

Do you believe a divine being is enslaved to the passions and sins of the flesh?

What are they now servants of? God and His Nature or Man and his?

In fact this statement can no longer be believed upon!

“No one who is born of God (fulfilled completely when Divine nature is achieved) will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.”

When we share in His divine nature, we must desire the things God desires.

In fact when divine nature is granted we will love what He loves and hate what He hates without the pull of the flesh! Galatians 5:22; 1 John 4:4

In a truth its impossible to reconcile angels sinning because they bare His Name; they behold His Face and they are Him in nature and manifestation.

The Conclusion of the whole matter

Sin no longer controls the one who has become a partaker of the divine nature. By giving us His nature, God makes us His sons and daughters and conforms us to the image of His Son (Romans 8:29; 2 Corinthians 6:18).

To believe otherwise is to make God sin.

F2F

 

[face2face]

I didnt see that this poster had already answered the question! Good on ya'!

The first sin ever committed was by Lucifer and it was the sin of pride.

Romans 5:12 - I get your passion for making this fictitious being a reality, but to rob Adam of his sin is just wrong!

F2F

 

[face2face]

@Wrangler

Luke 10:18

In Luke using a smile the whole point of the comparison placing emphasis on the "speed of the fall" of the adversary "as" lightning falling from heaven.

The Return of the Seventy-Two

Luke 10:17 The seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons (illnesses - they didn't know the names back then!) are subject to us in your name!” 18 And he said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you. 20 Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”

Straight away you can see how Christ relates the fall of this adversary with them having power over the enemy.

The obvious questions is...

Who was their enemy?

Who in the record is called serpents and scorpions?

If you have identified the enemy correctly you will also know how that authority of Christ was used to overcome them.

What was their evil power and how did they exercise it over the people?

Also noted is the implied safety of having their name written in Heaven! (no evil or sin present there)

F2F

 

[Kabone]

Do go on...

I don’t understand. It is from there that I wondered if there was sin in heaven. Do you want me to copy the verses?

 

[Kabone]

If I’m following this thread correctly, there is no proof that there are fallen angels. I didn’t see that there was a doubt satan existed. Where did satan come from? Is there any doubt satan is full of sin? Then is satan dead?

 

[Wrangler]

That response won't fly Wrangler, and you know it.

The Word of God is emphatic that the Wages of sin is Death - if angels sin, they must die

For us, the wages of sin is death. This is mercy. For immortal beings, the wages of sin is eternal torment in the Lake of Fire. You know this.

 

[Wrangler]

Well, what I make of it is your approach is flawed if you think its teaching a fallen angel when you know it is not.

Refusing again to answer the question of what you make of it means we are not really having a conversation. I don't know why you do that but have a nice day.

 

[Wrangler]

Luke 10:18

Straight away you can see how Christ relates the fall of this adversary with them having power over the enemy.

The obvious questions is...

Who was their enemy?

Many translations use Satan for adversary in this verse. More Circular Reasoning on your part for the verse cited answers your question. What are you doing f2f?

 

[MA2444]

Overcome Heaven?

These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you [b]will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.

Yes Lord, that you did!

How does the Lord's prayer go again?

You said God hasnt overcome heaven yet.

Yes, there is a lot of that demon possession going around these days

I wouldn't laugh if I were you.

Romans 5:12 - I get your passion for making this fictitious being a reality, but to rob Adam of his sin is just wrong!

F2F

Don't you believe Genesis either? Don't you believe that the serpent deceived Eve like it says.

Adam sinned knowingly. I think that Adam loved Eve his wife very much and didnt want her to have to face the consequences alone. But that's just a theory.

Is there anything in scriptuure that you do believe?

Have you ever asked the Holy Spirit to give you revelation about the word before you read it? Have you ever received a Rhema from God?

 

[Behold]

3. In Heaven God's Will is always done without exception

If that was true then Satan and the Fallen Angels didnt get understand your Theology @face2face .

 

[MA2444]

Yes, there is a lot of that demon possession going around these days

That gave me a thought. Maybe I myself am possessed? I think I am!

See, I am in Christ and Christ is in me. So that's possession right?
Jesus said He is in the Father and the Father is in Him, so Father God is here too!
And I am indwelt by the Holy Spirit so he's here too!!

It's getting crowded in here! (Praise the Lord!)
Plus my spirit and my soul so I hardly ever know who's talking in my head, Lol!
Not really, I don't think or speak quite the way the Lord does so I always know when He speaks.

So that's 5 in me right now. Have I missed anyone? Guardian Angel perhaps? ;)

I never heard of a good Angel possessing soeone though. The Angels are prolly on point.

 

[face2face]

For us, the wages of sin is death. This is mercy. For immortal beings, the wages of sin is eternal torment in the Lake of Fire. You know this.

Wow wrangler, your response surprise me especially your avoidance of Luke 10:18. Do you just write this off as a bad reference on your part?

The Lake of Fire is symbolic not a literal place so I can see how you would imagine these things to be so.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Many translations use Satan for adversary in this verse. More Circular Reasoning on your part for the verse cited answers your question. What are you doing f2f?

Correct. Adversary is the right word for the chosen context.

23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men.

So "adversary" here is defined for you as meaning the "things of men"

I must say Wrangler your usual sharpness is lacking on this subject and your shallow responses is not your usual form!

I'll give you a tip - in almost every use of the word satan (adversary) you will find its referring to humans.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Refusing again to answer the question of what you make of it means we are not really having a conversation. I don't know why you do that but have a nice day.

This is just dishonest on your part Wrangler and I think you know it. I've answered your questions in a number of replies and I'm yet to see you engage with Luke 10:18. I hope our conversation is not going end with you shying away from a passage your presented.
Enjoy your day also
F2F

 

[face2face]

I don’t understand. It is from there that I wondered if there was sin in heaven. Do you want me to copy the verses?

Yes feel free.

 

[face2face]

If I’m following this thread correctly, there is no proof that there are fallen angels. I didn’t see that there was a doubt satan existed. Where did satan come from? Is there any doubt satan is full of sin? Then is satan dead?

This is the point of the OP.

Angels can't sin
Angels always do God's Commands
God sovereignty in Heaven is without question Perfect Pure and Holy

This OP Kabone is an example where believers, even the most learned have never actually challenged their own beliefs and like you never doubted in fallacy.

I've studied this subject for over 30 years and I am yet to find this being existence.

F2F

 

[face2face]

If that was true then Satan and the Fallen Angels didnt get understand your Theology @face2face .

Sorry Behold I dont understand your words here.

 

[face2face]

Don't you believe Genesis either? Don't you believe that the serpent deceived Eve like it says.

Adam sinned knowingly. I think that Adam loved Eve his wife very much and didnt want her to have to face the consequences alone. But that's just a theory.

Is there anything in scriptuure that you do believe?

Have you ever asked the Holy Spirit to give you revelation about the word before you read it? Have you ever received a Rhema from God?

So you retract your earlier statement?