Do you believe this is...

[face2face]

Just asking a simple question. If you cannot answer simply, so be it.

No, I do not believe there is such a thing as a fallen angel.
Divine nature cannot sin - impossible.
Both you and I know the source of sin and its process and God's Holy Nature cannot.
What does this mean?
Well, a lot of hard work praying, studying God's Word to work out the true meaning of passages like Isaiah 14; Ezek 28 and so on.
I know your integrity and if you applied your discipline to the record you will start to see cracks, which will end up being insurmountable canyons.
I'm not wanting to argue with you Wrangler; I hold you in great respect as you have truth on many subjects.
God bless
F2F

 

[Wrangler]

No, I do not believe there is such a thing as a fallen angel.
Divine nature cannot sin - impossible.

Circular Reasoning. What Scripture verse states that Divine nature cannot sin - impossible?

Also, what do you make of Christ saying he saw Satan falling from the heights? Luke 10:18

 

[face2face]

So if you are able to see the work of the Holy Spirit and then it therefore proves the Holy Spirit's reality to you...why can't you see the work of the enemy also?

That's the point! The enemy is not Divine...and its not from Heaven but on earth.

1 John 2:16-17 For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

Christ never said he overcame Heaven!

What did he say?

It is not foolish because even your carnal intellect will tell you that...if the Holy Spirit is real then all of the other spirits that Jesus spoke of are also real. They would have to be. God's word is either true or it isnt. The miracles that Jesus performed the absolute most above anything else, even healings was...casting out evil spirits. Jesus did that everywhere. So how can you say it is not true?

Casting out sickness, yes plenty of that happened - you need to understand the cultural nuance of the day. Legion was a sick man and many astute Bible Scholars no longer believe he was possessed with some evil spirit but suffered from an untreated serious mental illness, such as schizophrenia or a severe form of bipolar disorder.

This is a separate subject to what we are talking about in this OP.

Happy to discuss in another topic if you want to start one!

The rest of your post didn't offer much in the way of proving your fallen angel belief.

Keep it on topic if you can.

F2F

 

[Wrangler]

The enemy is not Divine...and its not from Heaven but on earth.

It's amazing the things one reads on the internet.

 

[face2face]

Circular Reasoning. What Scripture verse states that Divine nature cannot sin - impossible?

The divine decree that the wages of sin is death. Romans 6:23
Christ states the resurrected gloried saints will never die being equal to the Angels (in nature) Luke 20:36
God would be unjust if he condemns a sinner to die but an angel He allows to roam His Creation causing havoc!
The Psalms always speak of Angels doing every and all His commands
The fallen angel notion has no origin story anywhere in the Word.
The promise of 2 Peter 1:4 holds no value whatsoever if Angels / Saints can sin and subsequently die! The very definition of eternity is the absence of death and therefore sin.

Wrangler, I could offer many more passages but you know what I am saying is true - rather than forcing man-made notions upon the word we are better to study the supposed proof text to see if in fact they are teaching a fallen angel.

Also, what do you make of Christ saying he saw Satan falling from the heights? Luke 10:18

I love this section! It's an amazing study Wrangler.

The passage does not state either that Satan was in heaven or that he fell from heaven.

Answer honestly Wrangler and we can continue to study Luke 10:18 within the context of that story.

If I said to you that the context is in verse 17 of that chapter how would that change your approach to this passage?

F2F

 

[face2face]

It's amazing the things one reads on the internet.

Even more amazing when Scripture is understood.

 

[face2face]

@Wrangler

Do you know what a simile is?

I'm going to assume you do.

Luke who wrote the Gospel of Luke & Acts likes to use similes (“his sweat was like drops of blood,”) He uses them here Luke 3:22; Luke 10:18; Luke 11:44; Luke 22:31 and so on...

What is the comparison being made Wrangler?

So he said to them, I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. Lk 10:18.

Who was the adversary in Jesus' view?

F2F

 

[Wrangler]

Circular Reasoning. What Scripture verse states that Divine nature cannot sin - impossible?

Also, what do you make of Christ saying he saw Satan falling from the heights? Luke 10:18

The divine decree that the wages of sin is death. Romans 6:23

Wrangler, I could offer many more passages

None are responsive in support of your claim.

 

[Stumpmaster]

No, I do not believe there is such a thing as a fallen angel.

Pointing you there now:

Jud 1:6 And those angels not having kept their first place, but having deserted their dwelling-place, He has kept in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of a great Day;
Mat 25:41 Then He also shall say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels.
2Pe 2:4 For if God did not spare sinning angels, but thrust them down into Tartarus, and delivered them into chains of darkness, being reserved to judgment.

 

[Wrangler]

The passage does not state either that Satan was in heaven or that he fell from heaven.

I didn’t ask what it does say but what you make of it.

 

[face2face]

None are responsive in support of your claim.

That response won't fly Wrangler, and you know it.

The Word of God is emphatic that the Wages of sin is Death - if angels sin, they must die, however the promise of angelic nature is without question teaching angels and saints cannot die and therefore cannot sin.

Maybe you can reconcile this conundrum but the weight to prove is on you my friend!

F2F

 

[face2face]

I didn’t ask what it does say but what you make of it.

Well, what I make of it is your approach is flawed if you think its teaching a fallen angel when you know it is not.

I'll wait for you to answer #207

Only those with integrity will discover the truth about any section of Scripture and this section in Luke 10:18 requires a high degree of honesty.

If you accept its a simile...then you need to also accept the comparison being made and how it does not relate to what is in your mind.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Pointing you there now:

Jud 1:6 And those angels not having kept their first place, but having deserted their dwelling-place, He has kept in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of a great Day;
Mat 25:41 Then He also shall say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels.
2Pe 2:4 For if God did not spare sinning angels, but thrust them down into Tartarus, and delivered them into chains of darkness, being reserved to judgment.

If you go back to your original comment you were stumped!
Now you return to engage in a thread you mocked?
Prove you have read the entire thread and return with something more meaningful.
F2F

 

[Stumpmaster]

If you go back to your original comment you were stumped!
Now you return to engage in a thread you mocked?
Prove you have read the entire thread and return with something more meaningful.
F2F

Scripture speaks of evil angels.

 

[MA2444]

I believe it’s genesis 6 and exodus 20. Wouldn’t it also have been the same realm where Lucifer developed his pride?

WHo can tell me what was the first sin committed and by whom?

Very first one ever.

I didnt see that this poster had already answered the question! Good on ya'!

The first sin ever committed was by Lucifer and it was the sin of pride.

 

[face2face]

Scripture speaks of evil angels.

Thank you for your authoritative reply.

 

[MA2444]

That's the point! The enemy is not Divine...and its not from Heaven but on earth.

1 John 2:16-17 For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

Christ never said he overcame Heaven!

What did he say?


Casting out sickness, yes plenty of that happened - you need to understand the cultural nuance of the day. Legion was a sick man and many astute Bible Scholars no longer believe he was possessed with some evil spirit but suffered from an untreated serious mental illness, such as schizophrenia or a severe form of bipolar disorder.

This is a separate subject to what we are talking about in this OP.

Happy to discuss in another topic if you want to start one!

The rest of your post didn't offer much in the way of proving your fallen angel belief.

Keep it on topic if you can.

F2F

SO you still wont answer my questions. You're playing games.

WHy would Christ need to overcome heaven if no divine being can sin? You contradicted yourself.

So the bible was lying about the Legion of demons in a man? That was just the man's name? Brother! Put the joint down.

 

[MA2444]

That's the point! The enemy is not Divine...and its not from Heaven but on earth.

1 John 2:16-17 For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

Christ never said he overcame Heaven!

What did he say?


Casting out sickness, yes plenty of that happened - you need to understand the cultural nuance of the day. Legion was a sick man and many astute Bible Scholars no longer believe he was possessed with some evil spirit but suffered from an untreated serious mental illness, such as schizophrenia or a severe form of bipolar disorder.

This is a separate subject to what we are talking about in this OP.

Happy to discuss in another topic if you want to start one!

The rest of your post didn't offer much in the way of proving your fallen angel belief.

Keep it on topic if you can.

F2F

I notice that you you seem to quietly refuse to speak about spirits. I guess you dont like approaching that subject.

Scizophrenic! I guess that prolonged demon possession can lead to mental disorders. That makes sense.

 

[MA2444]

Thank you for your authoritative reply.

Where's yours, Professor?

 

[face2face]

@Wrangler Am I right to think #207 is being worked on in the background?