Can one be saved while they are all alone?
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been there done that justification the Blood atonement Jesus told the thief on the cross today you will be with me in paradise
other than that i have no more time for your saved by water baptism
Of course you don’t. You don’t have any verses either. That’s why you act like you do..
Justification? What does that mean? It means...just if I had not sinned. That happens at the point your sins are removed. At what point does that happen?
Blood? At what point does the blood save? There has to be a point that the blood is applied or else everyone is saved. When is the blood applied to the convert?
Thief? The thief was NEVER told to obey the gospel. But you were. The gospel of Jesus Christ had a beginning. Lk 24:47. That beginning happened in acts 2 on Pentecost, 50 days after the thief died. So, unless your teaching we can be saved WITHOUT the gospel of Jesus Christ, I would not site the thief as some proof text for salvation today.
Interesting though? Being justified, blood atonement, and obedience to the gospel happen all at the exact same point. The Bible tells us exactly when that point in time is. You won’t answer because of the consequences of what a truthful and biblical answer will be.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
That is a trickier question than you may think. The Southern Baptists teach a concept called "already and not yet" where many of the BIG Truths of the Bible have a past, present and future aspect to them. Let's skip Bob and talk about me (since I am the only person that I am an expert on).
My sins WERE FORGIVEN (past tense) when Christ nailed them to the cross. [2 Corinthians 5:21]
My sins ARE FORGIVEN (present tense) every single day. [John 3:18 and 1 John 2:1]
One day (future tense), I will be COMPLETELY SINLESS. [Matthew 5:48 and 1 John 3:2 and 2 Corinthians 3:18]
There is no "one answer" to WHEN God forgave my sins. There is an exact moment when I first became aware that God had forgiven my sins, but they are not the same thing.
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atpollard
Well-Known Member
No, you never said that one had to be in church to be saved.
I just found it funny that God chose to save me and keep me for a decade without a Church home. It is not something that I would generally recommend. For better or worse, the reality is that if you want to find drunks, the best place to look is a BAR and if you want to find Christians, the best place to look is the CHURCH. Most of our growth comes from one Christian interacting with another Christian, so finding a "herd" to belong to is kind of important.
Yes, I said 'yes' to God.
It is a moment between Him and me.
Yet there is unmistakable evidence that God had marked His claim on me long before I said yes to Him.
he knows who will be saved and who will not be..yet he still never gives up on us The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. enjoy your posting on saved by water baptism.... personally i got tired of his straw man doctrine.. i put him on ignore tired of beating a dead horse
it always is when don’t have truth. You now have to explain away what the Bible plainly teaches. This is what is taught in seminaries. You have to direct attention to passages that don’t even deal with the question asked. The Bible clearly teaches by what means and at what time a person has their past sins removed. You didn’t mention a one of those verses. Acts 2:38: 3:19, 22:16; Rom 6; Col 2:11-13. And it’s because of what you’d do to southern baptist doctrine if you did.
No offense and I say this with all kindness....why did you bring up Bob then?
I believe in past, present, and future. But one must have past sins removed or this no present of future. And their is only “one answer” given in scripture about WHEN God forgives past sins.
Also
If you back up 4 verses in 2 Cor 5 we see that.....
IF (choice) any man (not some unknown elect) be “in Christ” he is a new creation, Old things have passed away.
The beautiful thing about this is that the way “ into Christ” is the exact same way one has their past sins removed. This is the beautiful harmony of the gospel until baptist get a hold of it and have to confuse and explain it away.
Let’s see if we can highlight another area in which you are being misleading and dishonest.
“Straw man”. By definition is when someone builds up a false position and then argues against it.
All I have done is ask people, on this board....At what point in time does God forgive sins?
The Bible is very plain and clear and speaks of it many times. It is a true and very important biblical doctrine. NOBODY can be “saved” until past sins are removed. And their is only one way the Bible says your sins are removed and that way requires another person to be involved. So, it is impossible to be saved “by yourself”. So, there is no straw man. You, again, made that up. So far, not one person has stood up for the truth. Everybody just clings to their own experience which may feel good but proves nothing.
It is your mistaken belief that sins are forgiven at the point when someone is baptized. BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT IS REVEALED IN SCRIPTURE.
When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy [the paralytic], Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. (Mark 2:5)
So at the very moment when Jesus sees the faith of a sinner in Himself as Lord and Savior, and in His finished work of redemption, his sins are forgiven.
ANYONE TEACHING THAT BAPTISM IS NECESSARY FOR SALVATION IS A FALSE TEACHER. SO YOU ARE A WOLF IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING.
You left out one that would help you understand.
Why did Jesus forgive sins that way on occasion?
Mark 2:9-10 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk? BUT that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)
So that they would know that he had power ON EARTH to forgive sins. That would PROVE he was deity.
Is he on earth today?
How has Christ told us, under his new covenant that began on Pentecost, the way in which sins are to be forgiven?
Acts 2:38, 3:19, 22:16; Rom 6; Col 2:11-13
The Bible is its own best commentary. Stop adding your own.
bingo and that is why i have ignored him and no longer replying. not wasting my time casting my pearls before the swine
Now you are simply making a mockery of Gospel truth to uphold your false doctrine. You claimed that no one's sins could be forgiven without water baptism. I showed you just ONE EXAMPLE to prove that you are wrong. I could have shown you a dozen more. But you will continue to promote your false teachings, hoping you will snare someone with your lies.
Romans 16
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Please explain why all of the verses that I provided are false. That is a serious charge to bring against the word of God. ;)
No offense taken. I told you ... I like stories. :)
Only "one answer"? Is that [Genesis 3:15] when God announced His plan, or [2 Corinthians 5:21] when our sin actually became His sin?
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Did Jesus preach “the gospel”? The gospel that you and I are accountable to? Yes or no.
This gospel had a beginning...
Luke 24:46-47 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
The answer is NO! This went into affect after Jesus ascended. If you don’t know the gospel and when it began. The gospel we are to believe and obey. Then you can’t be saved by it anyway. You are wasting your time.
Not a one of the verses you sited say anything about WHEN or at what point our sins are actually removed. 2 Cor 5:21 says NOTHING of when our sins are removed. It says that through him we are made righteousness. Where? IN HIM.Please explain why all of the verses that I provided are false. That is a serious charge to bring against the word of God. ;)
No offense taken. I told you ... I like stories. :)
Only "one answer"? Is that [Genesis 3:15] when God announced His plan, or [2 Corinthians 5:21] when our sin actually became His sin?
How do we get “in him”? Rom 6:3, gal 3:26,27.
Oh yea, I forgot, you are Calvinist so you think your sins were removed from the foundation of the world and it’s automatically applied to you because your special. You don’t have to do anything.
I knew you would not answer that simple question of ...WHEN does the NT say sins are removed? You can’t. The consequences are too much. They’d kick you out if the southern baptist.
I presented numerous verses that specifically talk about that very thing. Verses any good bible student would know and would use when asked this question. It’s a shame how people choose to skip over and avoid clear Bible passages.
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