Born again believers are NOT appointed to God's wrath ( the great tribulation )

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Davidpt

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The bible declares EMPHATICALLY that all died refusing the mark during the reign of the beast " the antichrist" .
Daniel speaks of the last week. ( 7 years)

Your doctrine is actually based on a phrase "last trump".

Psssst...the last trump is blown every year at the feast of trumpets.

I show you your ENTIRE deal has multiple holes blown in it.( and every postribber)
Huge holes a ship can sail through.
Your doctrine is impossible.
Impossible....It LITERALLY can not begin to be plausable.

It is like shooting ducks in a barrel.
You sit in ashes of a destroyed doctrine holding a burned match in one hand and a burned out gas can in the other, refusing to acknowledge you burned your postrib assumption to the ground YOURSELF.

Look at ALL THE CORNERS the postribber workbook painted you into.

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING of your doctrine fits.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.


Would you agree or disagree that the following has to happen to both the living and the dead? and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Let's assume Pretrib is biblical. In order for anyone raptured prior to great tribulation, or at any time, for them to live forever, well they certainly can't do that in the mortal bodies they were in prior to being raptured. No one in a mortal body can live forever. It is undeniably impossible. Therefore, there has to be Scripture that takes those still alive into account as well, since they too have to put on immortality.

It stands to reason then that the above passage is also including anyone still alive when the last trump sounds, since they too have to be changed. It is then a matter of, when is the last trump recorded in the above passage meaning? Regardless when great tribulation is meaning, is the last trump recorded in the passage above meaning prior to great tribulation or post that of great tribulation? And since there can only be one last trump in this case, that means there can only be one answer.

If you think that one answer is meaning before great tribulation, what about all the saved that die during great tribulation? How can they too be changed at the last trump if the last trump already preceded their deaths? Not to mention, surely there will still be some saved still alive that survived great tribulation. But if the rapture already preceded great tribulation, what rapture recorded in the Bible is for these saved saints that never died during great tribulation, thus they are still alive when Jesus returns?
 

covenantee

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So he's calling me a liar now. But my problem with that is in order for you to demand 'objective evidence' you have to throw out one of the biggest bible themes of all the scriptures....Faith.

Didn't you watch Miracle on 34th Street? Seeing isnt believing...Believing is Seeing.

Not my rules, this is the Lord's Creation and Matrix, lol. He wants what He wants and He set it up to make that type of evidence of Him largely unavailable in order for us to trust Him. Yes Brother, the day will come when you will have to trust Him and without objective evidence.

Shut me down for no Objective evidence? !!! Lol. It doesn't work that way and I am a waste of your time. Your problem seems to be more with the Creator than with little ol' me.
Post 70.

You're evidently afraid of it. :laughing:
 

MA2444

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Thanks for confirming the objective evidence of nothing but your own untested personal subjective opinionated spirit.

Cultism on parade. :laughing:

That's funny. Doesn't rhyme but it's sorta funny. I think you should start sending me money, then you may gain ground emough to complain about me. I'm joking of course, but your case against me has no merit for I am not a Joel Osteen, nor a Benny Hinn. I am more like a lone voice crying out in the wilderness, a nobody. No account, to you that is, but it is a different world with my Lord, Jesus.

You are scared to approach the Lord in spirit !

You should go pray about these things. I'm just a man who speaks what truth he knows and I ask no quarter, so I don't care if you believe me or not (well maybe a little). But you are certainly free to choose not to believe me and you can go on throwing the most of scripture out the window if you want to. SO what? That's your choice. There others who have ears to hear and eyes to see.

As a matter of fact. I do have verifyable proof of the Lord's supernatural power being unfolded before me. But that's getting into personal testimony area and I'm not about to reveal those things to you because of your general attitude and stance towards me already. I didn't get proof of the spirit the first day. It fell into my lap after I believed and trusted in Him and that is when He revealed Himself to me, after I believed forst.

Belief is a great word to do a word study on btw, do it in the Greek in the concordance. You might be surprised. Yes my friend you must look to th unseen and believe. That's scripture.
 

MA2444

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Post 70.

You're evidently afraid of it. :laughing:

Sorry but I wont go digging through pages and pages for your beliefs because you have no credibility with me. If you want to make a scriptural point (or try) then you need to just post it now, since you continue to demonstrate a hostile attitude.
 

covenantee

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That's funny. Doesn't rhyme but it's sorta funny. I think you should start sending me money, then you may gain ground emough to complain about me. I'm joking of course, but your case against me has no merit for I am not a Joel Osteen, nor a Benny Hinn. I am more like a lone voice crying out in the wilderness, a nobody. No account, to you that is, but it is a different world with my Lord, Jesus.

You are scared to approach the Lord in spirit !

You should go pray about these things. I'm just a man who speaks what truth he knows and I ask no quarter, so I don't care if you believe me or not (well maybe a little). But you are certainly free to choose not to believe me and you can go on throwing the most of scripture out the window if you want to. SO what? That's your choice. There others who have ears to hear and eyes to see.

As a matter of fact. I do have verifyable proof of the Lord's supernatural power being unfolded before me. But that's getting into personal testimony area and I'm not about to reveal those things to you because of your general attitude and stance towards me already. I didn't get proof of the spirit the first day. It fell into my lap after I believed and trusted in Him and that is when He revealed Himself to me, after I believed forst.

Belief is a great word to do a word study on btw, do it in the Greek in the concordance. You might be surprised. Yes my friend you must look to th unseen and believe. That's scripture.
Post 70.

You're evidently afraid of it. :laughing:
 

covenantee

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Sorry but I wont go digging through pages and pages for your beliefs because you have no credibility with me. If you want to make a scriptural point (or try) then you need to just post it now, since you continue to demonstrate a hostile attitude.
No digging needed. It's all in Post 70.

You're evidently afraid of it. :laughing:
 
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Scott Downey

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1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.


Would you agree or disagree that the following has to happen to both the living and the dead? and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Let's assume Pretrib is biblical. In order for anyone raptured prior to great tribulation, or at any time, for them to live forever, well they certainly can't do that in the mortal bodies they were in prior to being raptured. No one in a mortal body can live forever. It is undeniably impossible. Therefore, there has to be Scripture that takes those still alive into account as well, since they too have to put on immortality.

It stands to reason then that the above passage is also including anyone still alive when the last trump sounds, since they too have to be changed. It is then a matter of, when is the last trump recorded in the above passage meaning? Regardless when great tribulation is meaning, is the last trump recorded in the passage above meaning prior to great tribulation or post that of great tribulation? And since there can only be one last trump in this case, that means there can only be one answer.

If you think that one answer is meaning before great tribulation, what about all the saved that die during great tribulation? How can they too be changed at the last trump if the last trump already preceded their deaths? Not to mention, surely there will still be some saved still alive that survived great tribulation. But if the rapture already preceded great tribulation, what rapture recorded in the Bible is for these saved saints that never died during great tribulation, thus they are still alive when Jesus returns?
As you can see you exposed the inconstancy according to scripture of a pre-trib rapture.

And the dead in Christ rise, this return of Christ is the resurrection on the Last Day
And at Christs coming is the judgement of the world.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

1 Thess 4

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
 

CTK

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Read Rev 12.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.





No, that isn't in the bible. He uses a symbolic sword, but that is against an army not all unbelievers.





The little horn is one person, the leader of the ten horned kingdom. It's not the Papacy. Think far larger and far more evil than the Papacy ever was and you still will barely know how bad it will be that is coming.





What scripture says they preach anything?
Thanks for your response!
 
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CTK

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Read Rev 12.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.





No, that isn't in the bible. He uses a symbolic sword, but that is against an army not all unbelievers.





The little horn is one person, the leader of the ten horned kingdom. It's not the Papacy. Think far larger and far more evil than the Papacy ever was and you still will barely know how bad it will be that is coming.





What scripture says they preach anything?


For what it is worth, here is a short narrative for the verses in 12:7-9, let me know your thoughts.....


Revelation 12:7-9

7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Revelation 12:1-9 provides a narrative that alternates between events on earth and in heaven, offering a comprehensive view of the conflict between God and Satan. The first six verses focus on the earthly perspective, where the woman (Israel) gives birth to the male child (Jesus), symbolizing the Messiah’s arrival. The dragon (Satan) attempts to destroy the child, reflecting his earthly efforts to thwart God’s redemptive plan, such as Herod’s attempt to kill the infant Jesus. Despite these attempts, the male child ascends to heaven, marking His victory and authority, while the woman flees into the wilderness, where God protects and sustains her. The narrative then shifts in verses 7-9 to the heavenly perspective, recounting the war in heaven between Michael and his angels and the dragon and his forces. This spiritual battle ends with Satan’s defeat and his permanent expulsion from heaven, limiting his access to accuse God’s people and driving his wrath toward the earth. By presenting these two perspectives, Revelation 12 ties the events of heaven and earth together, showing how Satan’s earthly actions are rooted in his spiritual rebellion and ultimate failure in heaven. This dual focus highlights the interplay between the spiritual and physical realms, emphasizing that the cosmic battle affects all of creation.
 
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CTK

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I would add that the beast and the false prophet are basically devils in men's costumes.
Even the white horse rider at the start of the 7 yr trib is basically a devil in a Jesus costume.

For what it is worth, here is my take on the sea and the earth beast. Please also note it is impossible for one to truly get their full and complete interpretation by just providing narratives on two verses only, so please keep that in mind...


Revelation 13:3

3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast.

Revelation 13:3 presents a striking image of the beast: "One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed, and the whole earth marveled as they followed the beast." One widely accepted view contends this “wound” will occur during the infamous and unscriptural 7 year tribulation period involving a mythical anti-Christ figure at the end of time. Another accepted interpretation views the mortal wound as referring to the events of 1798, when Pope Pius VI was taken prisoner by Napoleon’s forces. This marked the apparent "death" of the papacy’s political power, as it was stripped of its territorial authority and influence over Europe’s rulers. Yet, the healing of the wound symbolizes its remarkable resurgence. By 1929, with the signing of the Lateran Treaty, the Vatican was restored as an independent sovereign state, reestablishing its global presence. Today, the papacy’s influence extends beyond religion, playing a significant role in global politics and diplomacy, fulfilling the prophecy that "the whole earth marveled as they followed the beast."

Perhaps there is an alternative interpretation that connects the mortal wound to the Reformation of the 16th century. During this time, key reformers like Martin Luther and John Calvin challenged the authority and teachings of the papacy, exposing corruption and deviations from Scripture. The Reformation delivered a powerful blow to the papacy’s spiritual authority, fracturing Christendom and significantly diminishing its control over religious thought and practice. The healing of the wound in this context represents the papacy’s ability to recover from this spiritual setback, gradually regaining its influence and adapting to new circumstances. Despite the Reformation’s far-reaching effects, the papacy endured and continues to command respect and admiration worldwide. The Reformation in the 16th century dealt a significant blow to the papacy, interpreted here symbolically as the "mortal wound" mentioned in Revelation 13:3. Key reformers like Martin Luther, John Calvin, and others challenged the authority of the papacy, exposing its corruption, indulgences, and deviations from biblical teaching. These efforts led to widespread rejection of the papal system across Europe, diminishing its spiritual and political power in many regions. This "wound" was not merely ideological but a visible weakening of the papacy’s control over Christendom.

The Jesuits, formally known as the Society of Jesus, were established in 1540 during the Counter-Reformation as a direct response to the Reformation.

Their founding by Ignatius of Loyola was driven by a mission to restore the authority of the papacy, heal its image, and counteract the influence of Protestant reformers. Here’s how they strategically functioned as the earth beast in this context:

Healing the Wound:

The Jesuits were instrumental in promoting the papacy’s doctrines and reasserting its authority, particularly in regions where the Reformation had weakened its influence. Their educational institutions, missionary efforts, and theological writings helped rebuild the image of the papacy and restore confidence in its authority.

Spreading False Messages:

The Jesuits propagated the seven-year tribulation theory, attributed to Francisco Ribera, which deflected attention from the papacy as the little horn of Daniel 7 and 8. This interpretation placed an "antichrist" in the distant future, shifting focus away from the papacy and undermining the reformers’ claims. This doctrine was aggressively taught, becoming deeply embedded in theological traditions even beyond Catholicism.

Strengthening the Papal Image:

The Jesuits emphasized the grandeur and authority of the pope, presenting him as a divine representative on earth. Through art, architecture, and ritual, they created a powerful image of the papacy that resonated with both educated and uneducated audiences. The construction of opulent churches and the promotion of Marian devotion further elevated the papacy’s status.

Educating the Uneducated:

One of the Jesuits’ primary strategies was to educate the masses, especially in regions affected by the Reformation. They established schools and universities, training both clergy and laity in Catholic doctrine. For many who lacked access to Scripture or theological resources, the Jesuits became the primary source of religious education, effectively countering Protestant teachings.

While the Reformers relied on the dissemination of Scripture and theological debate to spread their message, the papacy, through the Jesuits, leveraged far greater resources:

Global Reach: Jesuit missionaries spread Catholicism to the Americas, Asia, and Africa, extending the papacy’s influence well beyond Europe.

Institutional Support: The Jesuits operated with the full backing of the papacy and its wealth, enabling them to establish schools, build churches, and fund expansive missions.

Strategic Propaganda: By aligning themselves with ruling elites and leveraging their educational expertise, the Jesuits gained favor in courts and governments, further cementing the papacy’s power.

The Reformers, by contrast, often faced persecution, limited resources, and internal divisions. Despite their profound theological impact, their ability to counter the papacy’s resurgence was constrained by these challenges. The earth beast (Jesuits) functions as the papacy’s enforcer and promoter, fulfilling the role described in Revelation 13:11-18. The Jesuits’ efforts to heal the "mortal wound," restore the papal image, and deceive the world through signs and miracles align closely with the symbolic actions of the earth beast. Their intellectual rigor, strategic influence, and unwavering loyalty to the papacy made them indispensable to the recovery and expansion of the papacy’s power.

Revelation 13:4

4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”

Revelation 13:4 reveals two key dynamics: the indirect worship of the dragon (Satan) and the reverence for the beast (papal Rome), underscoring the deceptive power and influence of this system. The verse states that people worshiped the dragon because he gave power to the beast. While most people would never knowingly worship Satan, this worship occurs indirectly through their reverence for the beast. Satan, described as the dragon in Revelation 12:9, empowers the beast and uses it as his instrument to draw worship away from God. By venerating the system of papal Rome and its claims to divine authority, people unknowingly align themselves with the dragon’s rebellion. This reflects Satan’s long-standing strategy as a deceiver, appearing as an "angel of light" (2 Corinthians 11:14) and working through earthly systems to subvert God’s truth.

The beast, symbolizing the religious-political system of papal Rome, commands the world’s admiration and allegiance. This worship stems from its perceived invincibility, as reflected in the question: "Who is like the beast, and who can fight against him?" During its height, papal Rome wielded immense power, blending spiritual and political authority to dominate kings and nations. By claiming divine authority and positioning itself as the ultimate mediator between humanity and God, the beast became the focus of global reverence. This phrase introduces a subtle distinction. While the beast represents the papal system, "him” refers to its central figure—the pope (the little horn of Daniel 7). Together, the system and its leader form a unified entity, with the pope embodying the authority and claims of the beast. Historically, the papacy’s spiritual authority made it nearly untouchable, with kings and rulers submitting to its decrees to avoid excommunication or political ruin. This sense of invincibility, both spiritually and politically, reinforced the belief that the beast could not be challenged.

The phrase "Who is like the beast?" mirrors language traditionally reserved for God (e.g., "Who is like You, O Lord?" in Exodus 15:11), illustrating the blasphemous nature of the beast. The world’s admiration for the beast reflects humanity’s susceptibility to deception, as the beast presents itself as divinely ordained while opposing God’s truth. This perceived invincibility is not limited to physical warfare but extends to the spiritual and institutional power of the papal system, which seemed beyond human challenge.
 

MA2444

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No digging needed. It's all in Post 70.

You're evidently afraid of it. :laughing:

The answer is no man. If you have something to say, then say it and say it now. I aint debating something you said last week where it involves me having to do research on your beliefs. If you can talk then let's talk. But if you wont then forget it. I'm about tired of your snide comments and tangents off into nowhere and basically you called walking in the Spirit to be some sort of cult.

So let's just say we don't speaky the same language.

Or if what you said was so important then don't they have copy/paste where you're from?
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Keep omitting scripture and calling the body of Christ names.
Look at how far it takes you from Jesus.
Of course you will miss the rapture.
Anyone can see that.
You think someone will miss the rapture for merely having a different opinion about end times scripture than you. Pathetic. All Christians will be part of the rapture regardless of what their end times beliefs are. I'm tired of seeing this nonsense of people equating one's end times beliefs with their salvation status. That's asbsolutely childish and ludicrous.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Nope
Only place the unbelievers are burned is post mil at the GWTJ.

You also misplaced the rapture.
No white horses at the rapture.
No trib.
It PLAINLY says The there is normal life commerce, buying and selling.
Peace time
And everyday life at the rapture.
So that is impossible to Wiggle out of.

Thank you Jesus for your COMPLETE WORD!!!!!!!
I made a coherent argument and clearly spelled out how I see the order of things. You don't respond by specifically addressing anything I said. Instead, you respond with total gibberish. Do you imagine that anyone takes you seriously with the incoherent way that you post? No one does.
 

covenantee

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I aint debating something you said last week where it involves me having to do research on your beliefs.
The classic trademark of a cult. Refusal to consider anything that might detonate its fallacies and fantasies.

You're a perfect fit. :laughing:
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Are you then wanting us to believe that during Lot's day every single sinner on the planet was wiped out when God rained down fire from heaven on a particular region on the planet? That this somehow wiped out sinners everywhere on the planet, even sinners not in that same region at the time?
You're always quick to tell someone their interpretation is wrong, but you often fail to give what you think is the correct interpretation. How can you think you should be taken seriously if you just tell someone their interpretation is wrong without telling them what you think the correct interpretation should be?

How do you interpret Luke 17:26-30?

Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

I believe by comparing what will happen on the day He returns to "the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all", He was comparing the scope of what will happen on the day He returns to the scope of what happened in the flood in Noah's day. The scope of the flood was obviously global. And the scope of His return will be global as well. So, when He said "Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed" in relation to the flood in Noah's day, He was saying that just as all unbelievers were killed by the flood, all unbelievers will be killed when He returns.

I believe the reason that Jesus compared the day of His return to "the same day that Lot went out of Sodom" was to indicate what type of destruction will occur when He returns. Just as Sodom was destroyed by fire, Jesus will destroy His enemies by fire when He returns. Why else did He compare the day of His coming to the day Lot went out of Sodom and fire came down and destroyed all who were in Sodom? If you disagree with me about this then you should be able to tell me what you think the correct interpretation of what Jesus said should be.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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What a nasty man you are.
Calling those disagreeing with you worse than wimps, to the point of dragging God himself into your nasty view of the body of Christ who dare to disagree with your grand canyon leaps.
You definately need some Jesus time desperately.
Take a chill pill with Jesus. Those that he died for you hate with a vengeance.
I just SMH at such a nasty disposition.
Says the guy who tells others who disagree with his view that they will miss the rapture. What a hypocrite. You're as nasty as anyone on this forum, but you have no self awareness.
 

The Light

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Matthew 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

When was then?

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Prior to 70 AD, the Judaean Christians remembered Jesus' warning, recognized that when was then, fled into the mountains when they saw the holy city Jerusalem being encircled by the abomination of desolation (the Roman armies (Luke 21:20)), and escaped the great tribulation which then ensued in 70 AD.

Don't flunk your Bible history course. :laughing:
Don't flunk your Bible context course.:(

Matthew 24
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
 
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ewq1938

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For what it is worth, here is a short narrative for the verses in 12:7-9, let me know your thoughts.....


Mostly all it does is re-word what is found in the two verses. I don't see much in the way of deeper understanding, or illumination of what is in the two verses. It's fairly cut and dry. War, Satan loses, has wrath towards God's people on Earth.
 

covenantee

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Don't flunk your Bible context course.:(

Matthew 24
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Don't be a victim of interpretation by imagination. :laughing:

Matthew 24
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
 
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