Anti- Christian Crusade.

[Barrd]

The Barrd said: I don't ask. I will sell you a book whether you are straight, gay, or whatever.


What a wonderful example of liberal illogic.

Buying or selling something completely unrelated to a sinful act does not mean you support their sin.

If such were the case; you could neither buy nor sell anything - - little miss river jordan couldn't even deposit a dime because then she'd be supporting her own sin!

Only homosexual perverts demand that others openly support their sin by forcing them to participate in an activity - homosexual marriage - which goes against the very basic tenet of their religion!

It seems that as far as River is concerned, nothing I say or do could possibly be right.
Good thing she's not my judge, yes?

EDIT:
Come to think of it, she also had some harsh words for me for buying meat from my butcher...

 

[StanJ]

First of all, define for me "those that have already taken the narrow gate."
I seem to recall reading that Jesus said that He is the Way, and the Truth and the Life, and that no man could come to the Father except through Him.
His sheep know His voice, and He knows them. They follow Him and they will not hear the voice of some stranger.
Doesn't your Bible tell you these things?
Now, you and I both know that Jesus is God, our Immanuel, don't we? We have agreed upon that, yes?
And we both know that God has forbidden homosexuality, right? He has said that it is an abomination, and that those who do such things, or who take pleasure in those who do them, will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.
And didn't Jesus, Who is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, also tell us that if we love Him, we will obey His commandments?
So, if you tell me that the majority of "Christians" believe that we should accommodate sin, then I have to conclude that the majority of "Christians" are not among "those who have already taken the narrow gate."
Of course, it is possible that we do not have the same definition of the term "Christian".
To me, it means one who follows Jesus Christ, putting Him before any and every other facet of his or her life. Christianity is not just something that they do in church...it is their way of life. If you are not a Christian every single day, in your family life, in your business, in your friendships, and yes, in your politics, then it doesn't matter what you do on Sunday. As has been said, sitting in a pew on Sunday doesn't make you a Christian any more than sitting in a garage makes you an automobile. You either belong to Jesus 24-7, or you do not belong to Jesus at all.

Didn't Jesus say that the way to Life was a narrow road, and there would be few who would find it?
So, again, I say....if you are following a crowd....even if it is a crowd of "Christians"....you are going the wrong way.
Follow Jesus, my friend. Only He can lead you Home.

Matt 7:13, Luke 13:13, John 10:7-9
These are all metaphors of who Jesus is, and they all relate to Him in the sense that is specific. They are not the ONLY metaphors of Jesus, but they are a common one.

As far as abomination, I've explained this to you. Abomination is ONLY applicable to the temple, which is why I have suggested you use a more modern English translation.
Those who SIN as a lifestyle period, will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven, which is NOT the same as Heaven. The Kingdom of Heaven is what Jesus brought...the NEW Covenant. It is not a place, it is in our midst as an expression of that covenant as the church.
The issue is NOT homosexuality Barrd...it is HOW we treat ALL sinners/unbelievers, INCLUDING gays. There should be NO difference.
The crowd that you equivocate about are those that HAVE already entered into the WAY, Acts 9:2.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

The issue is NOT homosexuality Barrd...it is HOW we treat ALL sinners/unbelievers, INCLUDING gays. There should be NO difference.

Eph 5:3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. 4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them.

 

[StanJ]

Eph 5:3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. 4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them.

Among you is about believers in the church, and this is to be taken along with the following words from Paul in 1 Cor 5:9-10;
I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world.

 

[Barrd]

Mar 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Here, Jesus is talking about how the Jews had abandoned the commandments of God and replaced them with their own traditions.

Luk 13:13 And he laid his hands on her: and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God.

Here, we find him healing a woman on the Sabbath.

Joh 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
Joh 10:8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
Joh 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Okay, here the metaphor is obvious, but on the other two, I need you to enlighten me.

While you are at it, you might tell me what your trying to say with these metaphors?

Or where you came up with the notion that the term "abomination" only applies to the temple.
Call it "disgusting" if that pleases you better.

Now, I will agree with you that the Kingdom of Heaven is in our midst, but with this caveat. Those who do not enter the Kingdom of Heaven that is here and now, will not enter Heaven...or Paradise, since that pleases you better....after death. And that is the problem, and why we should not encourage or support sin. And that goes for all sin.

I think Marcus and I have both made it clear that we would behave the same way if it was a question of any other sin. And we have both illustrated this. All sinners need to repent and turn from their sin, and our goal should be to bring the message of Christ to them...not to aid and abet the sin. Jesus called sin for what it was...and so should we.

And once and for all, would you explain to me what in the world you are talking about--abomination has only to do with the temple? Are you by any chance referencing the abomination of desolation?
Please enlighten me...

You know, Stan, how I do love my KJV...but I am willing to look at other versions as well. They all say pretty much the same thing, don't they?

 

[StanJ]

Mar 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Here, Jesus is talking about how the Jews had abandoned the commandments of God and replaced them with their own traditions.

Luk 13:13 And he laid his hands on her: and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God.
Here, we find him healing a woman on the Sabbath.

While you are at it, you might tell me what your trying to say with these metaphors?

Or where you came up with the notion that the term "abomination" only applies to the temple.
Call it "disgusting" if that pleases you better.

And that is the problem, and why we should not encourage or support sin. And that goes for all sin.

I think Marcus and I have both made it clear that we would behave the same way if it was a question of any other sin. And we have both illustrated this. All sinners need to repent and turn from their sin, and our goal should be to bring the message of Christ to them...not to aid and abet the sin. Jesus called sin for what it was...and so should we.

And once and for all, would you explain to me what in the world you are talking about--abomination has only to do with the temple? Are you by any chance referencing the abomination of desolation?
Please enlighten me...

Mark 7:13 is about the verbal law, so not really relevant.

and?

I am not saying anything, Jesus is, and He is saying the way to God is ONLY through Him. The point is that believers have already entered the marrow way, but the majority view is another issue, and is reinforced by the rule of "2 or more".

Because it does by the actual word in the Greek, or Hebrew if you like. The only 3 uses of the Greek word βδέλυγμα (bdelygma), infer that. Yes, disgusting or repugnant is much more accurate, as ALL sin is seen that way to God.

I don't see anyone on HERE doing that...do you?
Can you not see the difference between agreeing with God as to what IS sin, and vilifying sinners?

There is a big difference between bringing the gospel of JESUS to people, that calls for their repentance, and pointing out types of SIN for people to repent from. Do you not see the difference?

That is ONE abomination, but as I explained above, the Greek word connotes what it means, that being idolatry, with all its pollution. A sin for sure, but NOT what God views homosexuality or any sexual immorality to be. It is why the English word is only to be used in this narrow regard, not for ALL sin, or not for only sexual immorality.

 

[Barrd]

Among you is about believers in the church, and this is to be taken along with the following words from Paul in 1 Cor 5:9-10;
I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world.

So, do you think that we are not responsible to bring the message of the cross to those who are outside the church?
Aren't these the ones who need to hear it the most?

ALL unrepentant sinners are headed for hell, Stan....every single one of them. You're a Christian, and I know that you know this. Aren't we supposed carry the message of salvation to them?

And why are we told to be the light of the world and the salt of the earth?
Are you telling us to hide our light under a bushel? Has our salt lost its savor?

I do not think so.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

If I am not to be a partner to those in the Church who commit sin openly, I should not yoke myself to those on the road to Hell outside of the Church either.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

The funny thing is that I work around homosexuals all the time.

When I do, I do not participate in their sin.

I must work in the world, but not be part of it.

What is suggested here is that those who are arguing for normal relations with homosexuals include having to do business with them in support of their sin as part of those normal relations.

That crosses the line from tolerance to acceptance.

 

[Barrd]

Mark 7:13 is about the verbal law, so not really relevant.

and?

I am not saying anything, Jesus is, and He is saying the way to God is ONLY through Him. The point is that believers have already entered the marrow way, but the majority view is another issue, and is reinforced by the rule of "2 or more".

Mark 7:13 was one of the verses you gave.

and....I'm not sure why you included the verse from Luke.

But if your point was that Jesus is the ONLY way, that is what I said to begin with.

I agree that believers are already on that narrow road...but, as I say, we may have a different idea of what the term "believer" means. IMHO, it means a bit more than just acknowledging Jesus' existence, or even His Divinity. It means totally trusting in every word He said. It means obeying Him. It means allowing Him to change us from the inside out. It means following Him...as in trying to emulate Him to the best of our poor ability to do so. It means admitting to Him and to ourselves that we are worthless sinners, totally helpless to save ourselves, and we need Him to help us clean ourselves up. It means giving ourselves to Him totally...every part of us, every facet of our lives, everything we do or ever hope to do, everything we own or ever hope to own...everything we are or ever hope to be belongs to Him. A Christian doesn't just worship on Sunday...for a true believer, his or her entire life is an act of worship. I don't know if I can make it any more clear than that.

Jesus seemed to think that there would be few who would find that path. He ought to know. And as far as I know He never said anything about following the opinion of "the majority". He did say that where two or more were gathered together in His name, there He would be in the midst of them. I'm pretty sure that He was referring to two or more true believers. And I'm also pretty sure that the consensus would be that we may not encourage or support any sin. Not even our own.

Because it does by the actual word in the Greek, or Hebrew if you like. The only 3 uses of the Greek word βδέλυγμα (bdelygma), infer that. Yes, disgusting or repugnant is much more accurate, as ALL sin is seen that way to God.

So, don't call homosexuality or any other sin an abomination....it's all just "Semantic Antics" anyhow. Call homosexuality, and every other sin, vile, disgusting, degrading, whatever.

I don't see anyone on HERE doing that...do you?

Ahem. Yes, I do.
It is what I have been saying....and doing....all along.
And Marcus, too.

Can you not see the difference between agreeing with God as to what IS sin, and vilifying sinners?

Maybe you need to tell me what you think "vilifying sinners" means?
Homosexuality is a perversion of the natural sex drive. It is not "vilifying sinners" to say that.
It is no different from any other sexual perversion. And all sexual perversion is an abom....erm...is vile, disgusting, and degrading in the sight of God.

Just as idol worship is. Or murder. Or rape. Or theft. Or adultery. Or abortion. Or greed. Or gluttony (mustn't forget my own sin.) Or any other sin you might care to name. However, no one seems to think that Christians ought to encourage or support any of these sins. For some reason, only homosexuality is "singled out."

There is a big difference between bringing the gospel of JESUS to people, that calls for their repentance, and pointing out types of SIN for people to repent from. Do you not see the difference?

Frankly, no, I do not.

That is ONE abomination, but as I explained above, the Greek word connotes what it means, that being idolatry, with all its pollution. A sin for sure, but NOT what God views homosexuality or any sexual immorality to be. It is why the English word is only to be used in this narrow regard, not for ALL sin, or not for only sexual immorality.

I don't see that it matters.
If it matters to you, then don't use the term.
It is nothing more than that ancient internet game known as "Semantic Antics"....a pleasant little pastime in which you try to tangle your opponent in his or her own words.

 

[Barrd]

If I am not to be a partner to those in the Church who commit sin openly, I should not yoke myself to those on the road to Hell outside of the Church either.

You'd think that would be obvious, wouldn't you?

The funny thing is that I work around homosexuals all the time.

When I do, I do not participate in their sin.

I must work in the world, but not be part of it.

What is suggested here is that those who are arguing for normal relations with homosexuals include having to do business with them in support of their sin as part of those normal relations.

That crosses the line from tolerance to acceptance.

And that is the problem.

To sell a lesbian a Christian novel about the life and times of Jesus Christ is one thing. i can hope that my work might play a small part in bringing her to Jesus.
To sell her and her lesbian lover a wedding cake....well, that would be something quite different.
I do not understand how some folks miss the point...or do they?

 

[Barrd]

If I am not to be a partner to those in the Church who commit sin openly, I should not yoke myself to those on the road to Hell outside of the Church either.

Now, I would have thought that was obvious.

 

[mjrhealth]

That is why I keep telling you...if you love these people, you will tell them the truth.

If you love them that you would treat them as Jesus treated all sinners. he loved them. He ate with them, wlaked with them, preached too them teh kingdoom of heaven, but never called them sinners. It was always teh pharisees that hated Jesus for sitting with them and it was always Jesus who showed them, the pharisses, the sinners that they where. Couldnt get past there own righteousness.
If you had a friend who went ang got a dress that made her look ugly and rediculous, would you tell her she looked stupid, or would you find a way to deal with it without resorting to name calling?

 

[mjrhealth]

To sell her and her lesbian lover a wedding cake....well, that would be something quite different.

Is it, what do you think Jesus would do? He would probably make them teh most beautiful cake of all, get invited to teh wedding then show them all His love. But not you, know you wil ljust treat them with discontent and shame them all so that they wont listen to you. I wonder how many of them have being driven away from Jesus by chritans??

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Is it, what do you think Jesus would do? He would probably make them teh [sic] most beautiful cake of all, get invited to teh [sic]] wedding then show them all His love. But not you, know you wil ljust [sic] treat them with discontent and shame them all so that they wont listen to you. I wonder how many of them have being driven away from Jesus by chritans [sic] ??

I think Jesus would tell them what He told the pharisees when they just asked if it was lawful to divorce:

“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female, and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh."

Now if Jesus said that just about divorce - which is not a sin - what would He say about the complete perversion of marriage and sin being put together?

He's probably say - 'From the beginning the Creator made them male and female, not female and female - and that a woman should not lie with a woman as with a man? I will not aid you in your sin. Now go, and sin no more.' You know, Jesus said that last part quite a few times upon healing people. Maybe we ought to take His command seriously

When we have to water the Word down so seeds with no root at all will accept it - we ourselves turn into rocky ground.

And if you don't get the analogy: you don't know what it is to be a Christian.

 

[River Jordan]

Do you think that I did not point out to Scottie that homosexuality is a perversion, just like pedophilia, or any other sexual perversion.
Indeed, that was one of the things that got him to thinking.
He also tried that line on me about how "animals do it, so it is natural"....and we discussed some of the other sexual behaviors of animals, including the fact that they will mate with their own offspring.
Do you think that I did not tell him all of these things? You'd be very wrong, my girl. You do not know me, and yet you repeatedly try to tell me what I will or will not do.

It is always love that rules the day, my dear girl. That is why I keep telling you...if you love these people, you will tell them the truth.
And don't think I did not tell Scottie that, while he was in my house, there would be no "gay sex", and he was not to come into my part of the house or get near my kids until I had him to the doctor and could be sure that he was not infected...
During the first few months that he stayed with me, he stayed in his room, and didn't even eat with us. He had his own bathroom, and he had orders to clean it every day with Clorox.
I was pretty rough on him, but it was necessary.
And today, he thanks me for every bit of it. Although, at the time, he hated me with a passion, and told me so. I just smiled and told him the same thing I have told you....that the world had also hated Jesus.
Sometimes, love does have to be tough...

There isn't any "disconnect". Scottie isn't the only gay person I know. My kid brother hangs out with a couple of gays, and they know exactly how I feel about them. They are among the ones who have told me, with their own mouths while looking dead at me that they had left their Christianity because God would not accept them as they are.
And, sadly, they have drawn my straight brother with them. He is also an atheist, today.

I would treat any gay person who came within my sphere of influence exactly the same way.

Given that you've confessed how you're guilty of the sin of gluttony, and that all sins are equal in the eyes of God, I can see what we need to do. You should immediately remove yourself from your house and go live (temporarily) with a Christian who will look over you. There, you will be kept in a room and every day you will submit fecal, blood, and urine samples to make sure you are not eating anything you aren't supposed to. I'm sure you won't like that, but it's for your own good. Overweight people like you are prone to diabetes, high blood pressure, stroke, heart disease, and such. So we have to check you daily, because we all know how the overweight will lie about their food intake and eating habits. Also, since the overweight are prone to sleep apnea, someone will monitor you while you sleep. All your meals will be made by someone else who will also watch you as you eat to make sure you're only eating what you're supposed to. Your meals will consist of mostly fruits and vegetables, with meat no more than 3 meals per week. You will get no more than 1,400 calories per day, with no sweets, processed foods, or other unhealthy items. You also will be cut off from your overweight friends, since they enable your sin. Finally, you will be taken to a new church (since your old one inexplicably tolerates your sin) where members will pray over you and cast out the demon that is causing your gluttony.

I know this is pretty tough, but it's necessary, and judging by your post above is how sin is to be dealt with. Of course also judging by your post, there's a better than even chance that this will drive you away from Christianity, but that's a risk we'll just have to take.

You ready to start?

I am a food junkie. I have freely confessed to you, in a public forum, that I have a problem with gluttony.

So let's get started on dealing with your sin.

The point is this.
Just like every single one of us, homosexuals need to repent of their sin.

And thus your sin needs to be treated the same way you treat others' sins.

From the OP:
Not surprisingly, Christians have been called the "American Taliban," a label that reflected the sentiments of some Californians who opposed Proposition 8, the pro-marriage bill, and who carried signs reading: "Don't Silence the Christians, Feed Them 2 the lions."
.....
The caustic vitriol from the "tolerant left" is bitter. Just because Christians don't want to participate in their ceremonies, Christians are now bigots. Brown commented: "People don't just hate you. They see you as downright dangerous, and that in itself is dangerous. And it's not just some isolated wacko making an extreme internet comment or a crowd of protesters carrying signs."

What does this hatred sound like? "I want them all to die in a fire," said one man. Another said, "I would be in favor of establishing a state for them...If not then sterilize them so they can't breed more." A man with a doctorate said, "The only good Christian is a dead Christian."
A college educated man referenced evangelical Christians and said "A torturous death would be too good for them." An elderly woman with a master's degree chimed in and said: "They should be eradicated without hesitation or remorse." (Dr. Larry Spargimino, commenting on article, "Townhall.com,When Committed Christians Are Compared to ISIS," by Michael Brown, September 13, 2015, http://townhall.com/...51359/page/full)

It is beyond obvious that those who respond in such a vicious way to Christian concerns about the raging ungodliness have a diminution of rationality in their thinking. Michael Brown questioned one woman who apparently had lost all reasoning ability and had launched a verbal attack that boiled with hatred. He asked the reasoning behind her outrage.

[Is your anger]...because we want to protect innocent babies in the womb? Because we care about marriage and family? Because we feed the poor and needy around the world? Because we want the whole world to know how wonderful Jesus is? Please be kind enough to explain your views.
....
While Christians in America don't yet face life-threatening persecution as do Christians who are being beheaded by ISIS, the Anti-Christian crusade is underway. It will one day--during the Tribulation, for certain--bring martyrdom to believers everywhere in the world. In 1 Peter 4:12, the apostle Peter wrote: Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you. But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

So the "war on Christians" is "they're saying mean things"? How awful!

Yet we are the ones being called "hateful jerks".
Nice.

Since you believe "saying mean things" = "war", and given the mean and hateful things Christian leaders have been , and are saying about gays (as you saw at the link I posted), it therefore can be equally stated that Christianity is a "war on gays".

What? My books have absolutely nothing to do with homosexuality.
Selling someone a Christian novel based on the life and times of Jesus Christ is not anywhere near the same thing as selling a wedding cake for a gay wedding.
Wasn't someone saying something about apples and oranges?
This is more like comparing coleslaw to sauerkraut...

I'm starting to think you haven't been dodging points as much as you really just don't get them.

My posts in this thread have consistently urged you and anyone else with "gay friends" to tell them the truth about their sin, and to help them to put it away from them.

And I think we need to take the same approach with your sin of gluttony.

You do not seem to realize that the wages of sin is death, and that includes (but is not limited to) the sin of homosexual sex.
You seem to think that Christians should not only endorse this sin, but actually encourage it.
This we may not do.

You really think I've been saying we should encourage people to be gay? Hmmmm....I think I greatly overestimated you.

 

[Barrd]

I think Jesus would tell them what He told the pharisees when they just asked if it was lawful to divorce:

“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female, and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh."

Now if Jesus said that just about divorce - which is not a sin - what would He say about the complete perversion of marriage and sin being put together?

He's probably say - 'From the beginning the Creator made them male and female, not female and female - and that a woman should not lie with a woman as with a man? I will not aid you in your sin. Now go, and sin no more.' You know, Jesus said that last part quite a few times upon healing people. Maybe we ought to take His command seriously

When we have to water the Word down so seeds with no root at all will accept it - we ourselves turn into rocky ground.

And if you don't get the analogy: you don't know what it is to be a Christian.

If it had been a young man taken in the act of sodomy, rather than a young woman taken in the act of adultery, I believe Jesus would have reacted exactly in the same way. He would have turned to the angry, blood-thirsty crowd, eagerly scooping up stones, and told them that the one among them that had no sin could throw the first stone at him.
And when they had all guiltily slunk away, He would have said the exact same thing to that young man as He said to the woman taken in adultery..."Go and sin no more."
As you have said, He used that phrase quite a bit. And I agree....had He been asked to provide cake for a gay wedding, or even wine from water, He would have used that same phrase.

And I do like your analogy, my beloved Brother:
When we have to water the Word down so seeds with no root at all will accept it - we ourselves turn into rocky ground.
In fact, I like it so much that, with your permission, I may borrow it. (I promise, I will give you credit for it.)

I do have to wonder, though...do you truly believe that there is no sin in divorce?

Mat 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

If a couple divorces for any other reason than fornication, and either of them remarries, that person has committed adultery. And adultery is definitely a sin.
I think it is pretty safe to say that, at the very least, God does not look kindly on divorce.

 

[Barrd]

Given that you've confessed how you're guilty of the sin of gluttony, and that all sins are equal in the eyes of God, I can see what we need to do. You should immediately remove yourself from your house and go live (temporarily) with a Christian who will look over you. There, you will be kept in a room and every day you will submit fecal, blood, and urine samples to make sure you are not eating anything you aren't supposed to. I'm sure you won't like that, but it's for your own good. Overweight people like you are prone to diabetes, high blood pressure, stroke, heart disease, and such. So we have to check you daily, because we all know how the overweight will lie about their food intake and eating habits. Also, since the overweight are prone to sleep apnea, someone will monitor you while you sleep. All your meals will be made by someone else who will also watch you as you eat to make sure you're only eating what you're supposed to. Your meals will consist of mostly fruits and vegetables, with meat no more than 3 meals per week. You will get no more than 1,400 calories per day, with no sweets, processed foods, or other unhealthy items. You also will be cut off from your overweight friends, since they enable your sin. Finally, you will be taken to a new church (since your old one inexplicably tolerates your sin) where members will pray over you and cast out the demon that is causing your gluttony.

I know this is pretty tough, but it's necessary, and judging by your post above is how sin is to be dealt with. Of course also judging by your post, there's a better than even chance that this will drive you away from Christianity, but that's a risk we'll just have to take.

You ready to start?


So let's get started on dealing with your sin.


And thus your sin needs to be treated the same way you treat others' sins.

First of all, as I also told you, I am already working to put this sin out of my life. I have stopped "hanging out" with my friend, for one thing, and for another, I have already limited myself to 1200 calories a day, and have given up my favorite hot fudge sundae for more healthy fruit and veggie snacks.
I am already seeing a doctor, who weighs me in twice a month, and runs a blood panel on me whenever she thinks I need to be checked. About once a month.
Given that she is also a food junkie herself who has beat her cravings and got herself down to her proper weight, she knows exactly what I need, and she is tough on me. And I love her for it. She is a treasure to me.
And I have already asked my church to pray for me.
So, while I appreciate your kind offer to help me, I am already employing some self-discipline, unlike my nephew, who had no self-discipline to deal with his sin.
Oh, and my doctor has not driven me away from Christianity...although she has driven me to my knees more than once.

And about Scottie...did I mention to you that he actually got to the point where he asked me to lock him in because he knew he didn't have the willpower to stay away from his boyfriends? I knew then that we were making progress. The first few times he asked me to do this for him, I complied with his strange request, but the time came when I refused. I knew my toddler was ready to walk on his own. I left his door unlocked....but I slept nearby, just in case my boy couldn't do it alone...but he pulled through!
It wasn't long after that that he met the girl who became our Mrs. Scottie...a beautiful young Christian girl. He was quite honest with her about his past, and she was very understanding. And I've told you the rest of the story.
I am aware that there are gay folks who are employing self-discipline and working to put their sin away from them, and they are to be commended for their efforts, and encouraged.

So, thank you for your kind offer to help me in my struggles against my sin, but I already have the help that I need.
But I'll tell you what I'll do. Whenever my sinful activities connected with my food cravings should lead me to the point where I am homeless and broke, as happened with Scottie, (which is why he came to me for help in the first place), I shall submit myself for the kind of treatment you suggest. Fair enough?
Of course, you will also have to provide me with everything that I need, and pay whatever bills I have managed to rack up, and you will have to spend hours talking with me, and keeping me occupied so that I do not have time to dwell on food...you must be ready to pray with me at all hours of the night...even if I awaken you at 2 a.m. needing prayer. And you must do all of this without losing your temper or giving in to the sin of anger.
It's a hard job, helping someone find their way out of the maze of sin. Are you sure you're up to the challenge?

So the "war on Christians" is "they're saying mean things"? How awful!

Aren't you one of those who are constantly talking about how Christians "vilify" homosexuals? And we do this by saying that their sexual activities are an abomination...or, to please Stan, disgusting and repugnant, in the sight of God. We do this by stating that their sexual activities are comparable to any other sexual perversion. We do this by saying that they need to repent, and with God's help, put the sin out of their lives, or they will find themselves spending eternity in hell. In other words, we do this by telling the simple truth.

Since you believe "saying mean things" = "war", and given the mean and hateful things Christian leaders have been , and are saying about gays (as you saw at the link I posted), it therefore can be equally stated that Christianity is a "war on gays".

I think such "hate speech" as:
"I want them all to die in a fire,"
"I would be in favor of establishing a state for them...If not then sterilize them so they can't breed more."
"The only good Christian is a dead Christian."
"A torturous death would be too good for them."
"They should be eradicated without hesitation or remorse."
does, indeed, constitute a War on Christianity.
And yes, Christianity is, indeed, involved in a war, not only against homosexuality, but against all sin.

I'm starting to think you haven't been dodging points as much as you really just don't get them.

You know, I've about come to the same conclusion with you. A couple of people here have already suggested that I should put you in my ignore list and quit debating this with you, as I'm getting nowhere...just spinning my wheels. I have been told that it is past time for me to "shake the dust from my feet."
I really do hate to put anyone on ignore, though. It seems so cold. Still, I have done it with a couple of people...ignoring someone is better than letting them goad you into losing your temper, I suppose. But for me, it would have to be a last resort.
So, I am asking you to please stop with the little digs. Try to behave yourself in this debate as a Christian ought to always behave him or herself...with love.
We do not have to agree with one another, but we do have to love one another. It is Christ's command.

And I think we need to take the same approach with your sin of gluttony.

Yes, you mentioned that.
Thank you for your concern.

You really think I've been saying we should encourage people to be gay? Hmmmm....I think I greatly overestimated you.

Perhaps you do not realize that aiding them in their sin is the same thing as encouraging them in it?
How is that different than you making a cake for me? Wouldn't you be encouraging me in my sin? Or don't you get that?

 

[River Jordan]

Buying or selling something completely unrelated to a sinful act does not mean you support their sin.

If such were the case; you could neither buy nor sell anything - - little miss river jordan couldn't even deposit a dime because then she'd be supporting her own sin!

Only homosexual perverts demand that others openly support their sin by forcing them to participate in an activity - homosexual marriage - which goes against the very basic tenet of their religion!

But how do you tell what is and isn't related to sin? If you work in a bookstore and a man comes in and buys a book on relationships, how do you know he's not gay and your selling him the book will aid in him staying in that relationship? If you sell him cupcakes, how do you know they're not for a gay party? What if a Christian works in a drug store? Should they ask every person who buys contraceptives what sort of sex they'll be having and with whom?

 

[River Jordan]

First of all, as I also told you, I am already working to put this sin out of my life. I have stopped "hanging out" with my friend, for one thing, and for another, I have already limited myself to 1200 calories a day, and have given up my favorite hot fudge sundae for more healthy fruit and veggie snacks.
I am already seeing a doctor, who weighs me in twice a month, and runs a blood panel on me whenever she thinks I need to be checked. About once a month.
Given that she is also a food junkie herself who has beat her cravings and got herself down to her proper weight, she knows exactly what I need, and she is tough on me. And I love her for it. She is a treasure to me.
And I have already asked my church to pray for me.
So, while I appreciate your kind offer to help me, I am already employing some self-discipline, unlike my nephew, who had no self-discipline to deal with his sin.
Oh, and my doctor has not driven me away from Christianity...although she has driven me to my knees more than once.

How long have you been doing this, and how much weight have you lost?

Aren't you one of those who are constantly talking about how Christians "vilify" homosexuals? And we do this by saying that their sexual activities are an abomination...or, to please Stan, disgusting and repugnant, in the sight of God. We do this by stating that their sexual activities are comparable to any other sexual perversion. We do this by saying that they need to repent, and with God's help, put the sin out of their lives, or they will find themselves spending eternity in hell. In other words, we do this by telling the simple truth.

No, as I've pointed out to you I-don't-know-how-many-times-before, I'm talking about this sort of rhetoric from Christians.

I think such "hate speech" as:
"I want them all to die in a fire,"
"I would be in favor of establishing a state for them...If not then sterilize them so they can't breed more."
"The only good Christian is a dead Christian."
"A torturous death would be too good for them."
"They should be eradicated without hesitation or remorse."
does, indeed, constitute a War on Christianity.
And yes, Christianity is, indeed, involved in a war, not only against homosexuality, but against all sin.

Well, at least you admit you believe Christians are waging war on gays.

You know, I've about come to the same conclusion with you. A couple of people here have already suggested that I should put you in my ignore list and quit debating this with you, as I'm getting nowhere...just spinning my wheels. I have been told that it is past time for me to "shake the dust from my feet."
I really do hate to put anyone on ignore, though. It seems so cold. Still, I have done it with a couple of people...ignoring someone is better than letting them goad you into losing your temper, I suppose. But for me, it would have to be a last resort.
So, I am asking you to please stop with the little digs. Try to behave yourself in this debate as a Christian ought to always behave him or herself...with love.
We do not have to agree with one another, but we do have to love one another. It is Christ's command.

You're free to do as you please.

Perhaps you do not realize that aiding them in their sin is the same thing as encouraging them in it?
How is that different than you making a cake for me? Wouldn't you be encouraging me in my sin? Or don't you get that?

And exactly how am I aiding in anyone's sin?