Anti- Christian Crusade.

[Barrd]

Well, you can put your fears to rest, I'm not a lesbian. Not everyone who believes gays should be treated no differently than everyone else is gay, you know.

Quite frankly, I honestly don't care enough to ask. Maybe you just haven't admitted it to yourself yet... :unsure:

Sadly, it's simply a matter of paying attention. The page is added to daily. There's certainly no shortage of Christian leaders who engage in hateful anti-gay rhetoric, and there's no shortage of Christians who support them.

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a shortage of people who fire hateful rhetoric at Christians who are trying to live up to the Name of Christ either....although I do question the Christianity of anyone who claims to have accepted Christ but are still willing to accept and support sin.
You cannot serve two masters....and it is quite evident from your posts which one you hate.

I thought public perception wasn't important to you?

You thought correctly.
And that especially applies to people who collect hate.

Again you miss the point entirely.

And again you avoid answering my questions.
I am left to assume that your anti-Christian campaign is really the only cause that is important to you.

Yet your posts in this thread show otherwise.

That's because you will not see what you refuse to look at.

I'm not just talking about you...I'm talking about conservative Christians as a group.

Why do you insist on sticking labels on people? And again, I actually know atheists who agree with me. My daughter knows a couple from Texas that home school their little girl for reasons just like this.
Plus they are terrified of the MRSA scare.

*sigh*

Again you miss the point entirely. Never mind.

Funny how every time you do not wish to answer a question, you tell me I "missed the point."
I think you understand exactly what I am asking you, and you can't answer without betraying your beloved cause.

 

[Barrd]

Then why don't you ask?

First of all, I don't sell cake. I am a writer, I sell books. There is nothing overtly sexual in my books. I am not aiding anyone in their sin with my books...if anything, my books will hopefully bring my readers closer to God.
And second, during the ordering process, the information is going to come out anyway. Your notion that the bakers ask for this info is slightly skewed....but I'm not surprised at all. I should have realized from the beginning that of course, when you order a special occasion cake, the baker needs information about the special occasion. DOH!

Oh brother....

Okay, let me lay it on you, Sis.
Christians....that is actual followers of the Lord Jesus Christ, as in those who are on that narrow road that leads to life, are not involved in homosexual relationships. And no Christian writer is going to write a book about gay relationships. We don't "do" gay.
And finally, as I said, information in a book written by a Christian is going to deal with normal male-female relationships. There won't be much there that a gay couple could use.

So if you had even a slight reason to think the cupcakes might be for a gay event, it's worth asking. What about other sins? If the person is really fat, shouldn't you ask how many people they're for just to make sure she's not eating them all herself?

Why does it have to be "she"? You've never seen a fat man?
As naive as I am, I'd probably assume that the cupcakes were for a child's party, and throw in some free unicorns for good measure.
Although, if I were really concerned, I might say, "What's the occasion?"....then again, I might say something like that anyhow. It is a perfectly natural question. Especially if the guy were ordering a huge number of them. Convention, perhaps? I'd want to make sure that my cakes would make the people who got them smile.

Of course he does (but he doesn't have the right to discriminate). He also has the right to ask fat couples how many people the cake is for, or how much they're spending on the wedding, or any questions about any other sins. Yet it's only homosexuality that ever seems to come up.

Oh, brother.

Okay, have you even read the First Amendment?
We are guaranteed the right to the free practice of our religion. There is nothing in that clause that limits this free practice to our homes or churches. We believe we have that right in our businesses as well, and we believe that any law that denies us that right is unconstitutional.
And before you start on the non-existent similarities between "gay rights" and black rights, do try to remember that having black skin is not a sin. Gay sex is.

 

[River Jordan]

Quite frankly, I honestly don't care enough to ask. Maybe you just haven't admitted it to yourself yet... :unsure:

LOL! If nothing else, you fundies sure are entertaining! "What's this? A woman who says we shouldn't single homosexuality out among all the other sins, and says gays should have civil rights? Why, she must be a lesbian, or at least a closet lesbian!!"

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a shortage of people who fire hateful rhetoric at Christians who are trying to live up to the Name of Christ either....although I do question the Christianity of anyone who claims to have accepted Christ but are still willing to accept and support sin.
You cannot serve two masters....and it is quite evident from your posts which one you hate.

"What's this? A woman who says we shouldn't single homosexuality out among all the other sins, and says gays should have civil rights? Why, she must be a lesbian, or at least a closet lesbian!! And there's no way she's a Christian!"

Hilarious. Actually, it's not. This is precisely why young people are leaving the faith over this issue. As you've demonstrated, merely saying gays should be treated no differently than other sinners and should have civil rights gets you vilified and your faith called into question. The sad thing is, it wasn't that long ago that you were complaining about having your faith called into question, and now here you are doing it to me.

You thought correctly.
And that especially applies to people who collect hate.

So the problem isn't with the Christian leaders who are engaging in hate, it's with the people who dare expose it. Unbelievable.

And again you avoid answering my questions.

No, you just keep dodging or missing the point. Stan chose to call it deflecting, I call it missing the point. Either way, you're not very good at addressing the points people raise.

I am left to assume that your anti-Christian campaign is really the only cause that is important to you.

Oh my goodness. Now I'm not just a non-Christian, I'm an "anti-Christian"? You really are something else. Can you imagine a teen Christian who says "Hey, why are we so focused on gays, when there are lots of sins, many of which are inside our own church", who then gets this sort of treatment (called an anti-Christian)?

To put it bluntly, your attitude is the reason Christianity is declining in the US.

Why do you insist on sticking labels on people?

Says the person who just referred to me as an anti-Christian. Oh the hypocrisy....

Plus they are terrified of the MRSA scare.

Except that the vast, vast, vast majority of MRSA cases are among heterosexuals and occur in hospitals. But why let facts get in the way, eh?

First of all, I don't sell cake. I am a writer, I sell books. There is nothing overtly sexual in my books.

Again you miss the point. There's nothing overtly sexual about wedding cakes either, is there?

And second, during the ordering process, the information is going to come out anyway. Your notion that the bakers ask for this info is slightly skewed....but I'm not surprised at all. I should have realized from the beginning that of course, when you order a special occasion cake, the baker needs information about the special occasion. DOH!

Unless the couple asks for their names to be on the cake, there's no reason to ask. All they need to ask is "Which cake, pick-up or delivery, and who do I bill this to?"

Christians....that is actual followers of the Lord Jesus Christ, as in those who are on that narrow road that leads to life, are not involved in homosexual relationships. And no Christian writer is going to write a book about gay relationships. We don't "do" gay.

Again, you miss the point entirely. If a Christian bookstore owner sells books about relationships in general, or even just about dealing with others, it's possible that a gay person could come in and buy such a book. Thus, the Christian is aiding the couple in staying together, which means they are aiding in their sin. So why don't they ask, "Who is this for", just like the bakers?

And finally, as I said, information in a book written by a Christian is going to deal with normal male-female relationships. There won't be much there that a gay couple could use.

Are you really that naive?

Why does it have to be "she"? You've never seen a fat man?

Why does it have to be a he? You've never seen a fat woman?

As naive as I am, I'd probably assume that the cupcakes were for a child's party, and throw in some free unicorns for good measure.
Although, if I were really concerned, I might say, "What's the occasion?"....then again, I might say something like that anyhow. It is a perfectly natural question. Especially if the guy were ordering a huge number of them. Convention, perhaps? I'd want to make sure that my cakes would make the people who got them smile.

IOW, most sins aren't worth asking about....just homosexuality.

Okay, have you even read the First Amendment?
We are guaranteed the right to the free practice of our religion. There is nothing in that clause that limits this free practice to our homes or churches. We believe we have that right in our businesses as well, and we believe that any law that denies us that right is unconstitutional.

Do you honestly believe that the First Amendment, and its protection of freedom of religion, gives you the right to break the law? Try and answer directly.

And before you start on the non-existent similarities between "gay rights" and black rights, do try to remember that having black skin is not a sin. Gay sex is.

Except now you've put the discussion in the arena of government and law, where "sin" doesn't come into play. As we've been over, we are a secular Republic, not a theocracy.

 

[Barrd]

You can say that all you want, but the law is otherwise.

First of all, the First Amendment to the Constitutional Bill of Rights agrees with Marcus. And the Constitution is the Supreme law of the land. So, technically, the law does not say otherwise, although some states have written their own laws which contradict the First Amendment.
I'm not sure, but last I knew, here in Alabama a business owner could still refuse to accommodate a homosexual. That may have changed, but the point is that not all the states are in agreement
Indeed, Indiana is currently in a muddle over a new bill that would allow businesses to reject gays.

Second, a Christian is first and foremost, a citizen of the Kingdom of Heaven.
Now, while our King expects to be good citizens, we are to obey Him first.
If any of the laws of men should conflict with His law, then we may not obey the laws of men, but rather adhere to His law, no matter what the cost.
And we know that His law forbids homosexual sex.

Once again we see just how ugly your hatred is.

No. What Marcus has shown is how deep his love for God is.
I'm sorry that you have a problem with that. I respect and admire him for it, and I am proud to call him my Brother...
We may not always agree on every point...but we both know Who our Shepherd is.

Do you therefore go through a checklist of all sins for every single person you labor for?

Why do I get the feeling that you would reserve this right only for yourself and those like you? But if a Muslim tried to exercise the same right, you'd be arguing the other side.

Believe me, Muzzies are a lot tougher on homosexuals than Christians.
If you don't like me, or Marcus, or folks like us, you will hate them...

 

[StanJ]

If I am not to be a partner to those in the Church who commit sin openly, I should not yoke myself to those on the road to Hell outside of the Church either.

Two different issues, and you ignore what Paul does say, that I have pointed out many times.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

No, she's alright with mooslims. It's part of that liberal self-hatred that they suffer so proudly.

She'll probably excuse them as they put the knife to her throat - but oh those wraskelly fundamentalists! She has no problem going to war against Christians.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Two different issues, and you ignore what Paul does say, that I have pointed out many times.

No,they're not. While I have to deal with the world, I should not be "yoked" to them.

2Co 6:14 Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?

We can kick the sinner out of the Church; in the world, we should not join with the sinner.

Homosexual marriage is against God's Law.

Some little girls think it's a terrible thing to see evil and good as black and white.

 

[Barrd]

LOL! If nothing else, you fundies sure are entertaining! "What's this? A woman who says we shouldn't single homosexuality out among all the other sins, and says gays should have civil rights? Why, she must be a lesbian, or at least a closet lesbian!!"

Even my brother's gay friends are not this passionate about this issue. In fact, I don't think I've ever run into anyone else who is this dedicated to "gay rights". Ever.
Your zeal is amazing, if not very wisely placed. So, yeah...I do wonder what, exactly, is your deep connection to this issue?

"What's this? A woman who says we shouldn't single homosexuality out among all the other sins, and says gays should have civil rights? Why, she must be a lesbian, or at least a closet lesbian!! And there's no way she's a Christian!"

And again, my brother's friends are atheists.
Your incredible dedication to a cause that
a. You are not a part of
b. Your God is opposed to
is puzzling. To say the very least, my girl, you are confused.

Hilarious. Actually, it's not. This is precisely why young people are leaving the faith over this issue. As you've demonstrated, merely saying gays should be treated no differently than other sinners and should have civil rights gets you vilified and your faith called into question. The sad thing is, it wasn't that long ago that you were complaining about having your faith called into question, and now here you are doing it to me.

Darling, my faith gets called into question every day around here. You'd be surprised at how often I stand alone in these threads. Sure, it bothers me, at least a little, especially when it is someone I thought was my friend who is doing it.
But then I remember that the road to Life is a lonely little path, while the road to hell is broad and well traveled. I've heard a rumor that it is paved with good intentions. I think I know what kind of good intentions are paving this stretch of the highway to hell, anyhow...
As far as kids leaving the faith....do you not trust God? Do you not believe that God draws those who come to Him? Do you think that God's Word ever comes back to Him without accomplishing it's purpose? Are you not aware that, even among those who call themselves Christians, only a small percent of them actually belong to Christ?
Many...that is MANY (not just a few) will come to Him at the end of time, calling Him "Lord, Lord," and proclaiming all of the wonderful works that they have done in His Name, and He will turn them away, saying that He never knew them. In my mind's eye I can almost see River, running to Him, crying "Lord, Lord," and trying to tell Him how hard she worked defending homosexuals from Christian hatred....

So the problem isn't with the Christian leaders who are engaging in hate, it's with the people who dare expose it. Unbelievable.

I'd be a lot more impressed if those hate collectors were collecting hate from both sides of the issue.
Hate does not just flow one way, you know.
It takes to to tango....

No, you just keep dodging or missing the point. Stan chose to call it deflecting, I call it missing the point. Either way, you're not very good at addressing the points people raise.

What you do not realize is that Stan and I are pretty good friends.
Yes, there are some issues we disagree on, but overall, Stan is a good guy.
He just has a blind spot in this one area.
But I do believe he's starting to rethink his stance here. I could be wrong....but I have been praying for him.
He's a stubborn, opinionated old goat....much like myself....but he is a good, solid Christian who loves the Lord.

So don't think to drive a wedge there. It will not work.

h my goodness. Now I'm not just a non-Christian, I'm an "anti-Christian"? You really are something else. Can you imagine a teen Christian who says "Hey, why are we so focused on gays, when there are lots of sins, many of which are inside our own church", who then gets this sort of treatment (called an anti-Christian)?

And again, if I were a young teen and I encountered the type of vicious arguing you have displayed in this thread, I'm pretty sure I'd want nothing to do with whatever faith you were claiming. The minute I were to disagree with you on some issue, you would turn on me like a snake.
Uh-uh....whatever that is, you can keep it.

To put it bluntly, your attitude is the reason Christianity is declining in the US.

To put it bluntly, my attitude doesn't matter. It is the gospel that will draw them. It is Jesus that will enthrall them. It is the empty tomb that will bring them.
If they are turned away by my dedication to my Lord and my God, then they would never have come to Him anyway. The minute they ran up against His law that states that homosexuality is forbidden, their faith would have melted away like popsicle on the sidewalk in the Arizona desert.

Says the person who just referred to me as an anti-Christian. Oh the hypocrisy....

Jesus did say that if you aren't with Him, you are against Him.
The law against homosexuality is of His making. You may not realize it, my girl, but when you fight against that law, you are fighting against Jesus Christ Himself.

Except that the vast, vast, vast majority of MRSA cases are among heterosexuals and occur in hospitals. But why let facts get in the way, eh?

Not only did you not look at any of the sites I posted, you obviously did not read about my friend and her family....a mother and her two kids and their cousin, all infected with MRSA by one gay man, and now all dead.
But why let facts get in the way, eh?

Again you miss the point. There's nothing overtly sexual about wedding cakes either, is there?

You aren't going to sit there behind your computer and tell me that a newly wed gay couple are not going to have sex, are you?

Unless the couple asks for their names to be on the cake, there's no reason to ask. All they need to ask is "Which cake, pick-up or delivery, and who do I bill this to?"

Evidently the Cryer Bowman lesbians did not ask for their names to be on the cake, but only what the bride and grooms names were.
Another case involves a baker who wanted to know what to put on top of the cake.
Etc....

 

[StanJ]

I think you know that we do not agree on this point, Stan.
Being "under grace" does not negate the fact that sin is transgression of the law, as I'm sure you are aware. Grace is unmerited favor...it is granted to us for the forgiveness of sin.
Even under the New Covenant, the wages of sin is death, while the gift of God is eternal life.
I am always surprised and a little shocked when some Christian tells me that "we are not under the law" as if God has given us a license to sin.


So, would you tell a Wiccan that she must desert her goddess in order to worship Christ?
What would you say to the kleptomaniac who is stealing from you? Or worse, to the guy who has raped someone you love...your wife or your daughter, perhaps?
Would you be as sanguine about sin if it were seriously affecting your life? Maybe I am wrong about you, but I'm guessing that underneath all the fine church words, there is a real man who, especially in the case of the rape of his wife or his daughter, would very gladly step up and attempt to do "God's job."
It's so easy to say how we should act when we are not personally involved.
And given that there are very few actual gays, the chances that you will ever be personally involved are quite slim.
But what if you were, Stan?
Would you, for instance, have the guts, as I did, to take in your gay relative, even though you have young kids in your house? Would you love him enough to guide him through his confusion?

And wasn't Philip a Greek? Jesus did deal with those outside of the Jewish faith, didn't He?

Okay, then my Brother, how bout you enlighten me? What does being salt and light mean to you?

We are saved BY grace, and that Grace has NOTHING to do with the law, as the law requires sacrifice and blood. Where in the OC Law do you see grace being manifested?
We're NOT under the written law, OC, as is taught by the NT. We are under the NC. Please, read Hebrews 8 and listen to what God has to say there. If the Holy Sp0irit can't make you see, I sure can't. For some reason you are bound and determined to be legalistic instead of being set free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:1-4
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Do you NOT see what Paul is teaching here?

These type of rabbit trails are really NOT relevant Barrd. They only show how you justify your POV, but don't show that you really understand the spiritual principles under the NEW covenant.
I have had gay friends over the years...so what is your point Barrd. Do you want a medal for your acts, despite your words?

ALL the Apostles were Galilean & Jewish Barrd, except Paul, who was Roman and Jewish.

It means just that...BEING. That does NOT require words or condemnation.

 

[StanJ]

No,they're not. While I have to deal with the world, I should not be "yoked" to them.

2Co 6:14 Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?

We can kick the sinner out of the Church; in the world, we should not join with the sinner.

Homosexual marriage is against God's Law.

Some little girls think it's a terrible thing to see evil and good as black and white.

Yes they ARE, unless you are deliberately eisegeting them to suit your own personal POV? When you figure out exactly what 2 Cor 6:14 is teaching in regards to being UNEVENLY YOLKED, then we can talk. The Greek ἑτεροζυγέω (heterozygeō), does NOT mean what you apparently think it does.

Homosexuality is against God's LAW, not them marrying. Do you actually think unmarried homosexuals are more accepted in God's sight?

Immature understanding effects all age groups Marcus...not just little girls.

 

[Barrd]

Again, you miss the point entirely. If a Christian bookstore owner sells books about relationships in general, or even just about dealing with others, it's possible that a gay person could come in and buy such a book. Thus, the Christian is aiding the couple in staying together, which means they are aiding in their sin. So why don't they ask, "Who is this for", just like the bakers?

Again, do not see how this imaginary book about relationships is going to contain any helpful info for a gay couple.
This imaginary scenario fails.

Are you really that naive?

I am a writer.

Why does it have to be a he? You've never seen a fat woman?

I've seen plenty of fat folks of both sexes. But for some reason, most of the ones trying to do something about it seem to be of the female persuasion.
'Sup, guys?

IOW, most sins aren't worth asking about....just homosexuality.

That barb has long ago lost it's stinging power.
All you are proving with that is your inability to read.

Do you honestly believe that the First Amendment, and its protection of freedom of religion, gives you the right to break the law? Try and answer directly.

If the law is unconstitutional, then yes, it gives me the right to break that law.

Except now you've put the discussion in the arena of government and law, where "sin" doesn't come into play. As we've been over, we are a secular Republic, not a theocracy.

America may be a "secular republic".
But the Kingdom of God, where my true citizenship lies, is definitely a theocracy.
For God's people there is no "separation of church and state."

 

[Barrd]

We are saved BY grace, and that Grace has NOTHING to do with the law, as the law requires sacrifice and blood. Where in the OC Law do you see grace being manifested?
We're NOT under the written law, OC, as is taught by the NT. We are under the NC. Please, read Hebrews 8 and listen to what God has to say there. If the Holy Sp0irit can't make you see, I sure can't. For some reason you are bound and determined to be legalistic instead of being set free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:1-4
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Do you NOT see what Paul is teaching here?

These type of rabbit trails are really NOT relevant Barrd. They only show how you justify your POV, but don't show that you really understand the spiritual principles under the NEW covenant.
I have had gay friends over the years...so what is your point Barrd. Do you want a medal for your acts, despite your words?

ALL the Apostles were Galilean & Jewish Barrd, except Paul, who was Roman and Jewish.

It means just that...BEING. That does NOT require words or condemnation.

Aren't we already discussing this issue in another forum?
Let's not hijack this thread with the same debate.
We are going to disagree on this one, Stan my man, as we already know.
So let's do it in the proper place, which is not this thread.
Deal?

 

[StanJ]

Aren't we already discussing this issue in another forum?
Let's not hijack this thread with the same debate.
We are going to disagree on this one, Stan my man, as we already know.
So let's do it in the proper place, which is not this thread.
Deal?

Maybe, but I'm addressing your posts, so maybe you should be careful to NOT cross post. :)

 

[Barrd]

Yes they ARE, unless you are deliberately eisegeting them to suit your own personal POV? When you figure out exactly what 2 Cor 6:14 is teaching in regards to being UNEVENLY YOLKED, then we can talk. The Greek ἑτεροζυγέω (heterozygeō), does NOT mean what you apparently think it does.

Is homosexuality forbidden by God, Stan?
Just answer "yes" or "no"....keep the commentary for a minute, and don't "deflect".

Homosexuality is against God's LAW, not them marrying. Do you actually think unmarried homosexuals are more accepted in God's sight?

If we're going to split hairs, the actual LAW forbids homosexual sex. As far as I know, there is no law against being a homosexual, only against the sex.
Now do you actually think that two homosexuals are going to marry and not have sex?
The only homosexual that has a snowball's chance of being accepted by God would be the one who has never had sex at all.

Immature understanding effects all age groups Marcus...not just little girls.

It might even affect a pig-headed old man.

 

[Barrd]

Maybe, but I'm addressing your posts, so maybe you should be careful to NOT cross post. :)

Uh....isn't that what I just said?
Stan, you know I love you, my Brother.....but you are confusing me...

 

[River Jordan]

Even my brother's gay friends are not this passionate about this issue. In fact, I don't think I've ever run into anyone else who is this dedicated to "gay rights". Ever.
Your zeal is amazing, if not very wisely placed. So, yeah...I do wonder what, exactly, is your deep connection to this issue?

I guess when you can't argue the facts, you switch to attacking the person.

Darling, my faith gets called into question every day around here.

Therefore you think it's ok to do it yourself.

As far as kids leaving the faith....do you not trust God? Do you not believe that God draws those who come to Him? Do you think that God's Word ever comes back to Him without accomplishing it's purpose? Are you not aware that, even among those who call themselves Christians, only a small percent of them actually belong to Christ?
Many...that is MANY (not just a few) will come to Him at the end of time, calling Him "Lord, Lord," and proclaiming all of the wonderful works that they have done in His Name, and He will turn them away, saying that He never knew them. In my mind's eye I can almost see River, running to Him, crying "Lord, Lord," and trying to tell Him how hard she worked defending homosexuals from Christian hatred....

So youth are leaving the faith in droves, and one of the main reasons they cite for doing so is our hateful attitudes towards gays and our hypocrisy on the issue. Confronted with this fact, your response is...."Meh". Makes one wonder why bother to share the Gospel in the first place.

I'd be a lot more impressed if those hate collectors were collecting hate from both sides of the issue.
Hate does not just flow one way, you know.
It takes to to tango....

So confronted with hateful rhetoric from Christian leaders, your response is "It's the fault of those who expose it". Sad.

And again, if I were a young teen and I encountered the type of vicious arguing you have displayed in this thread, I'm pretty sure I'd want nothing to do with whatever faith you were claiming. The minute I were to disagree with you on some issue, you would turn on me like a snake.

Riiiiiiiiiiiight.......it's not you--the one who questions my faith, implies that I'm a lesbian, and says I'm anti-Christian--who has turned like a snake, it's me. Ridiculous.

To put it bluntly, my attitude doesn't matter. It is the gospel that will draw them. It is Jesus that will enthrall them. It is the empty tomb that will bring them.
If they are turned away by my dedication to my Lord and my God, then they would never have come to Him anyway. The minute they ran up against His law that states that homosexuality is forbidden, their faith would have melted away like popsicle on the sidewalk in the Arizona desert.

So we can be as bizarre, hateful, and nasty as we like in sharing the Gospel, and it will have no effect on how receptive people are to it. Again, your naivety is astounding.

Jesus did say that if you aren't with Him, you are against Him.
The law against homosexuality is of His making. You may not realize it, my girl, but when you fight against that law, you are fighting against Jesus Christ Himself.

This is what I struggle with, so I'm just going to say it....are you really so dim that you cannot understand that saying homosexuality is no different than other sins, is not the same thing as saying homosexuality isn't a sin at all? I've been wondering that about you for several days now, and sadly I'm thinking that maybe this really is just the best you're capable of.

Not only did you not look at any of the sites I posted, you obviously did not read about my friend and her family....a mother and her two kids and their cousin, all infected with MRSA by one gay man, and now all dead.
But why let facts get in the way, eh?

I looked at the CDC data that shows the vast, vast, vast majority of MRSA infections occur in hospitals and are not associated in any way with gay sex. As far as your story, my dad knows a heterosexual who died of syphilis. So just based on both the MRSA data and my dad's story, you should be much, much more terrified of heterosexuals.

You aren't going to sit there behind your computer and tell me that a newly wed gay couple are not going to have sex, are you?

Depends. I know newly married heterosexual couples where the husband is impotent. Does that mean they shouldn't have a wedding cake, since wedding cakes are all about the type of sex you have? :wacko:

Evidently the Cryer Bowman lesbians did not ask for their names to be on the cake, but only what the bride and grooms names were.
Another case involves a baker who wanted to know what to put on top of the cake.
Etc....

So there's no real reason to ask if the cake is for a same-sex wedding.

Again, do not see how this imaginary book about relationships is going to contain any helpful info for a gay couple.

Your naivety is noted.

If the law is unconstitutional, then yes, it gives me the right to break that law

And who decides whether a law is unconstitutional?

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Yes they ARE, unless you are deliberately eisegeting them to suit your own personal POV? When you figure out exactly what 2 Cor 6:14 is teaching in regards to being UNEVENLY YOLKED, then we can talk. The Greek ἑτεροζυγέω (heterozygeō), does NOT mean what you apparently think it does.

Homosexuality is against God's LAW, not them marrying. Do you actually think unmarried homosexuals are more accepted in God's sight?

Immature understanding effects all age groups Marcus...not just little girls.

No apparently it affects old codgers too.

Jesus said that marriage was between a man and a woman, and it was so from the beginning. You don't seem to understand that little fact my friend.

And while you support the perversion of marriage, are you suggesting sin is more acceptable one way or another in regards to marriage? What what a theology...

Regarding "yoked" - it means exactly what I said it means:

ἑτεροζυγέω heterozygéō, het-er-od-zoog-eh'-o; from a compound of G2087 and G2218; to yoke up differently, i.e. (figuratively) to associate discordantly:—unequally yoke together with.

Regarding 2Co 6;14 - it means exactly what I said it means - and I rebuke you and your fuzzy sentiment: we should not "JOIN" with sinners in their perversion of God's institution of marriage.

Expositor's Bible Commentary.
2Co 6:14 Paul has just appealed to the Corinthians for mutual openness in affection as in speech. His own heart is open wide to them, but he knows and they know why they cannot reciprocate as fully as they ought. Some of them have an uneasy conscience about their continuing pagan associations they know Paul disapproves of. The apparent abruptness of v. 14a after v. 13 may be explained1) by this mutual knowledge; (2) by Paul's "coming to the point" immediately, as he sets forth the truth plainly (4:2) or speaks the truth in love (Eph 4:15); and (3) perhaps by a brief dictation pause.

Now we can talk about your POV which twists things around so you say I have to accept their sin and it is right for me to be forced to help them promote their sin AND violate the very basic union of a man and a woman by putting two men together in holy matrimony.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

And who decides whether a law is unconstitutional?

In this case 5 liberals.

That doesn't make it Constitutional. It makes it political.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

I guess when you can't argue the facts, you switch to attacking the person.

From the person who calls people hateful jerks.

Pot: here's a mirror; meet kettle.

 

[Barrd]

I guess when you can't argue the facts, you switch to attacking the person.

Dear girl, we have been arguing the facts.
The fact is that gay sex is against God's law. That is a fact.
It is a fact that Jesus told us that if we love Him we will obey Him. That is a fact.
It is a fact that those who are dedicated to Christ will uphold His law. That is a fact.
Therefore we will not accept homosexuality as "normal" or "natural".
It is a fact that Jesus tells us that we are to repent of our sins...that is to turn from them.
Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
You should know all of these things.
But you defend and uphold homosexuality regardless of what you know that God has said about it. That is shocking to me.
Of course I am going to wonder what your motive might be.
And I did not say that you were definitely a lesbian. I only said that it had crossed my mind to wonder.

Now, you take that as a personal attack?

Therefore you think it's ok to do it yourself.

And again, I did not say that you are definitely not a Christian.
What I said was, given your attitude against God's clearly stated law, both in the Old and New Testament, I wonder about your faith. Perhaps you aren't sure just what a Christian is? There are folks who think that, because they to church once or twice a week, and have said a few magic words and gotten wet, they are now Christians.
There is a little more to it than that.

So youth are leaving the faith in droves, and one of the main reasons they cite for doing so is our hateful attitudes towards gays and our hypocrisy on the issue. Confronted with this fact, your response is...."Meh". Makes one wonder why bother to share the Gospel in the first place.

One of the things that I have been saying from the very beginning is that it is more hateful to lead them to believe that they can go so far as to actually enter in to the sacred bond of matrimony, knowing full well that their final destination unless they repent and turn away from their sin is going to be hell. Condemning a sinner....ANY sinner....to an eternity hell because it is not politically correct to tell them the truth, is, imho, true hatred.
Any kid who does accept the gospel message is sooner or later going to have to face the fact that gay is not okay. You want us to sugar coat this truth in order to condemn even more people to an eternity in hell.
And I am saying that Jesus...not you, not me, and definitely not our government, but Jesus alone is the Way and the Truth and the Life. No man....NO MAN, River, and no woman, either....ever comes to the Father except through the Son. If those kids do not know that now, they will learn it later, and later is going to be a lot sadder.

So confronted with hateful rhetoric from Christian leaders, your response is "It's the fault of those who expose it". Sad.

Again, you twist what I have said.
I actually said that I'd be a lot more impressed if that site collected hate from both sides of the issue.

Riiiiiiiiiiiight.......it's not you--the one who questions my faith, implies that I'm a lesbian, and says I'm anti-Christian--who has turned like a snake, it's me. Ridiculous.

As I recall, when you first met me you were quite impressed with my dedication to my faith. You had some glowing praise for me back in those days. You actually made this old lady blush.
However, the first time we find ourselves on opposite sides of an issue, I am a "hateful jerk". I am "naive". When I tell you how I dealt with someone whom I loved who was gay, your first charge was that I only condemned it in strangers, not in those I love.
Upon being told that I told him the same truth I have told you and others, you came back to me with a description of how you think "we" ought to deal with my sin, which I freely confessed to you in an open forum. You were quite nasty about it, as I recall. However, I did not react to your barbs, but merely told you that I was already dealing with it.
And then you wanted to know how much weight I had lost. By this time i was beginning to lose my temper with you, but I did answer your impertinent question. You never asked me how much I needed to lose, but your response was less than encouraging.
In short, you have not shown me much love in this thread.

So we can be as bizarre, hateful, and nasty as we like in sharing the Gospel, and it will have no effect on how receptive people are to it. Again, your naivety is astounding.

Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
River, do you believe this? I do.

This is what I struggle with, so I'm just going to say it....are you really so dim that you cannot understand that saying homosexuality is no different than other sins, is not the same thing as saying homosexuality isn't a sin at all? I've been wondering that about you for several days now, and sadly I'm thinking that maybe this really is just the best you're capable of.

I'd be more impressed with that if you weren't insisting that Christians ought to encourage them in their sin, or aid them in committing it.
I've noticed that you do not do this with other sins. You evidently don't care too much about other sins.
When I told you that I would not buy overpriced junk from a televangelist, or contribute to his wealth, you did not have a problem with that.
When I told you how I had stood up and walked out on a pastor for this reason, you did not call me a hateful jerk.
When Marcus pointedly asked me how I would deal with other sins....as an undertaker, how would I handle a client who wanted me to help him bury the body of the person he'd murdered, as a pawn shop owner, would I help a client fence stolen property, as a babysitter how would I handle the horny Dad who wanted me to help him commit adultery....you had no comment.
When I said that I would not sell someone a gun to commit murder, you just shrugged your shoulders.
But let me say that I would not sell cupcakes for a gay pride parade....and oh, boy!
You seem obsessed with this one sin. Why?

I looked at the CDC data that shows the vast, vast, vast majority of MRSA infections occur in hospitals and are not associated in any way with gay sex. As far as your story, my dad knows a heterosexual who died of syphilis. So just based on both the MRSA data and my dad's story, you should be much, much more terrified of heterosexuals.

Yeah.
Okay, for those who are interested, check out these sites:

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&channel=iphone_bm&site=&source=hp&q=gay+sex+and+MRSA&oq=gay+sex+and+MRSA&gs_l=hp.12...2068.6173.0.8752.17.13.0.0.0.0.979.1944.6-2.2.0....0...1c.1.64.hp..17.0.0.0.UkCn_U9GB9g

And i did tell you about my friend, whose gay cousin brought the infection home with him. She is dead now....and so is her mother and her brother. And the cousin.
You never even commented.
My friend's name was Irene. Everyone called her "Renee". She loved animals and spooky movies, and she laughed a lot. She loved to sing kareoke, and the girl was good. She was sweet and funny and smart, and we were best buds. She is dead now. It took her a long time to die, and her suffering was horrible.
I miss her terribly.
Where is your compassion?

Depends. I know newly married heterosexual couples where the husband is impotent. Does that mean they shouldn't have a wedding cake, since wedding cakes are all about the type of sex you have? :wacko:

Your newly married heterosexual couple is an exception.
And I think you know it.
Marriage is about a lot more than sex, of course....but for most people sex is a factor.
And gay sex is forbidden.

So there's no real reason to ask if the cake is for a same-sex wedding.

So, don't ask. What others do is none of your business, is it?

Your naivety is noted.

You would not like the retort to that one....so I will just keep it to myself.

BTW, here are some synonyms to the term "naive":

innocent, unsophisticated, artless, ingenuous, inexperienced, guileless, unworldly, trusting; credulous, immature,


gullible, immature, callow, raw, green, wide-eyed...

I will freely admit to most of these, and thank you, River.

And who decides whether a law is unconstitutional?

Cute.
No, I'm afraid that will not work, my girl. The amendment doesn't need to be interpreted or explained.
That amendment is the biggest reason why I do not think SCOTUS was acting within the law when they handed down their controversial decision.