Another Premillennial absurdity

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WPM

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You keep forgetting that they don't follow Satan until after the Millennium. No one is following Satan in the Millennium. No one is deceived in the Millennium.

Of course, once Satan is loosed these people are deceived into a thought of disobedience. But not prior to Satan being loosed.

What do you mean "a thought of disobedience"? That is ridiculous, and you know it. What book are you going by? This is a global uprising that results in the redeemed surrounding the righteous, and involves billions of wicked millennial inhabitants (as the sand of the sea).

These millennial actors inherit a new earth supposedly ruled by Christ and the saints in righteousness with a rod of iron. They are confronted at every turn with the myriads of glorified redeemed that have populated the earth in their perfect bodies and are walking proof of the ongoing reality and truth of the reigning Christ yet these millennial rebels choose to walk in their rebellion.

These millennial mortals must qualify to be the most belligerent, stiff-necked, hard-nosed, stubborn, obstinate company of humans ever to grace this earth. They are way more intransigent than the Pharisees that only had 3 ½ years of resisting the person and ministry in his mortal body. For 1,000 years they refuse to receive the glorified Christ sitting in all His eternal majesty. How could they resist Him? How could they deny His authenticity?
 

jeffweeder

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You keep forgetting that they don't follow Satan until after the Millennium.

They are already following him who is the father of lies and deception. Thats how deceived they are. One day they will know whom they were serving and will have no excuse in the face of such a great salvation that was offered offered to them.... A deluding influence.
 
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David in NJ

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This is not speaking of the first resurrection for reasons given below...,



At the return of Christ we are glorified when the Lord appears in a flame of fire to eternally separate unbelievers.



Yes.
Both rise as a consequence of the Lords Glorious appearing. It is simultaneous, as we are caught up together in a twinkling of an eye......on the day he comes to take Eternal vengeance on those who shunned the Gospel. When Jesus appears we will be like him for we shall see him as he is....and the dead Christians see this the same time as those living.

Paul clearly does not support the idea of our glorification and the eternal separation of Gospel rejecters happening a thousand years after his coming in eternal vengeance to glory those waiting for him.
The Lord is coming in complete vengeance when he glorifies us.

5 This is a positive proof of the righteous judgment of God [a sign of His fair verdict], so that you will be considered worthy of His kingdom, for which indeed you are suffering. 6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him].


God bless you in this.

Good Morning,

Time to WAKE UP and drink a Cup of TRUTH = 1 John 3:1-3 is the Second Coming of Christ

His Coming is the FIRST Resurrection = Revelation 2:10-11

‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life:

Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Look, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison to test you, and you will suffer tribulation for ten days. Be faithful even unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
The one who overcomes will not be harmed by the second death

Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. - Revelation 20:

When does the First Resurrection take Place = At HIS COMING

“Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.”

And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”
 

WPM

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Good Morning,

Time to WAKE UP and drink a Cup of TRUTH = 1 John 3:1-3 is the Second Coming of Christ

His Coming is the FIRST Resurrection = Revelation 2:10-11

‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life:

Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Look, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison to test you, and you will suffer tribulation for ten days. Be faithful even unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
The one who overcomes will not be harmed by the second death

Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. - Revelation 20:

When does the First Resurrection take Place = At HIS COMING

“Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.”

And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

I have already addressed this in detail with you and you have already avoided it. I refer you back to several unaddressed posts that rebut your claims.

The reader can judge for themselves who is addressing the counter-arguments and who is avoiding them.
 

WPM

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Good Morning,

Time to WAKE UP and drink a Cup of TRUTH = 1 John 3:1-3 is the Second Coming of Christ

His Coming is the FIRST Resurrection = Revelation 2:10-11

‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life:

Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Look, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison to test you, and you will suffer tribulation for ten days. Be faithful even unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
The one who overcomes will not be harmed by the second death

Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. - Revelation 20:

When does the First Resurrection take Place = At HIS COMING

“Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.”

And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

I just read Jeff's post and noticed you didn't even address any of his arguments or Scripture. This does not advance your argument or represent fair debate. There is so much avoided evidence above that forbids your position.

What the first resurrection (of Christ) secured was a tremendous victory for the dead in Christ and also for the living in Christ. Your first resurrection does not do that. It excludes the living in Christ. The Amil first resurrection that occurred 2000 years ago embraces all of God's elect and gives them victory over eternal punishment.
 
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David in NJ

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I have already addressed this in detail with you and you have already avoided it. I refer you back to several unaddressed posts that rebut your claims.

The reader can judge for themselves who is addressing the counter-arguments and who is avoiding them.
Let the Holy Scripture of Truth address your heart Today.

The Scripture never lies or misinforms us.

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6

Beware of the temptation to exalt yourself above the words of our Lord Jesus Christ = Revelation 22:18

I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.
 

David in NJ

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The Bible distinguishes between the first and second aspects of this great final glorification event. Unfortunately, for your doctrine, and for your argument, whatever way you word it, the living in Christ are not part of your first resurrection. What is more, it causes you to overlook the real first resurrection which occurred 2000 years ago, thus proving we are in Revelation 20 now.

You flat out are calling God a liar in your post here by saying: "the living in Christ are not part of the first resurrection."

Today, you need to embrace His words and the words of the Holy Spirit.

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death,c so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.
16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise = (First Resurrection as Promised by the LJC = Revelation 2:10-11 , Rev 20:4-6

17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord
 

rwb

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When we live in time with Christ, the life we have through Him is eternal, which means we never die. The following translations have correctly shown this truth, because none of them show the physically dead coming/returning to life again. John sees only the living souls of faithful saints in heaven because in TIME, John likens a thousand years, they LIVED and REIGNED with Christ. Therefore, having part in the first resurrection (through the resurrection of Christ, who is the first resurrection of the dead) in TIME, in physical death their spirits returned to God (Ecc. 12:7), so John sees spiritual bodies, living souls in heaven after physical death of believers.

Revelation 20:4 (KJV) they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:4 (YLT)
they did live and reign with Christ the thousand years;

Revelation 20:4 (WEB)
They lived, and reigned with Christ for the thousand years.

Revelation 20:4 (ASV) they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 20:4 (NKJV) they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Mankind MUST have part in the first resurrection in this age of TIME to overcome condemnation in the second death. John wrote of this TIME coming in the hour that had come when John wrote. The hour was when the dead; spiritually dead in trespasses and sins would hear the voice of the Son of God and live. This is a clear depiction of the Word of life preached, resulting in faith unto everlasting life for whosoever believes. (Ro 10:17) All who hear Christ's Word and believe on Him when this TIME (hour) had come shall not be condemned, but has passed from death to life in Christ, because He is the resurrection (first) and the life, and though physically dead shall live forever.

John 5:25-27 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

John 5:24 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 11:25-26 (KJV) Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

continued below:
 

rwb

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The rest of the dead, those who have also lived and died in TIME will not be resurrected to life until the last trumpet sounds in the same hour that is coming when all in the graves will be physically resurrected to everlasting life, or condemnation. This is a depiction of the one and only physical resurrection of every human body in the graves hearing the voice of Christ and coming forth for resurrection life, or resurrection of damnation that shall come on the last day of this age of TIME.

John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Paul spoke not only of the bodily resurrection that shall be in the hour that is coming, but also of the spiritual or first resurrection man must have part of in TIME. Paul writes with confidence, knowing that while he lived in his body destined to die he was not with the Lord in heaven. Paul found comfort in the knowledge that when he physically died he would be present with the Lord in heaven. Which is why Paul writes in death there will be great gain, for physical death could not prevent him from being with Christ which is far better.

2 Corinthians 5:6-8 (KJV) Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Philippians 1:21-23 (KJV) For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

Christ, since His resurrection became the firstfruits of them that had already died in faith. Though some faithful saints had already physically died before the advent of Christ, since they died in faith they were spiritually alive in Him, and through His Spirit ascended with Christ to heaven. As spiritual bodies, Christ descended into the place of the faithful physically dead (grave, Abraham's bosom) and freed those faithful saints who were captive in the grave. (see the parable of Lazurus & the rich man)

1 Corinthians 15:20-22 (KJV) But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Ephesians 4:8-10 (KJV) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Paul shows those who had already died in faith with Christ the firstfruits, were of the first resurrection. When Christ appears the second time at the end Paul shows the faithful saints being resurrected to immortality and incorruptible physical bodies fit for life in the next age on the new earth. But until that time He must reign till all enemies are put under His feet.

1 Corinthians 15:23-25 (KJV) But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

Answering the question of how the dead are raised up, Paul says the dead will be made alive, but that which is sown in the earth at death will not be the body raised to life. The bodies raised to life when the last trump sounds will change from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible physical bodies. But when the physical body of saints die, the body that shall be is NOT physical, but is a spiritual body, a celestial/heavenly body. The natural body will be raised in incorruption and immortal when the last trump sounds, but also raised with Christ, the firstfruits, them who died, and now all who physically die in Christ, who are raised when our natural/physical body dies, a spiritual body, because there is both a natural body and there is a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:35-38 (KJV) But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

1 Corinthians 15:40 (KJV) There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

1 Corinthians 15:42-44 (KJV) So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Paul has already said that when the body of believers is dead, we are present with the Lord. Now Paul shows us how we are present with the Lord in heaven when we physically die in Him. In death believers shall be like the heavenly bodies (celestial), who, as spiritual body bear the image of the Lord from heaven, heavenly bodies. That's why Christ tells us in the resurrection we shall be as the angels of God in heaven, spiritual beings, because God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. This is why Paul writes that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God (in heaven), neither does corruption (mortal & corruptible physical flesh) inherit the Kingdom of God on the new earth.

1 Corinthians 15:46-50 (KJV) Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Mark 12:23-26 (KJV) In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife. And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God? For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven. And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?

Mark 12:27 (KJV) He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
 

WPM

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Let the Holy Scripture of Truth address your heart Today.

The Scripture never lies or misinforms us.

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6

Beware of the temptation to exalt yourself above the words of our Lord Jesus Christ = Revelation 22:18

I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.

More avoidance. This is becoming a habit.
 

rwb

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Indeed it is speaking of the First Resurrection because (drum roll) the Return of Christ is the First Resurrection.

Secondly, the Saints who are alive at the Second Coming will be transformed just as the dead in Christ who Rise FIRST = 1 Cor ch15

Peace

The first resurrection is not at the return of Christ. The resurrection at the return of Christ is physical, when the last trump sounds and the saints are resurrected to immortal and incorruptible bodies of flesh, and at the same hour that is coming the bodies of ALL who are in the graves resurrected to immortal life, or condemnation at the GWTJ. The first resurrection takes place in TIME, John likens to a thousand years. Because the first resurrection is the resurrection of Christ man must have part in by grace through faith while alive in TIME or during this age.
 
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WPM

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You flat out are calling God a liar in your post here by saying: "the living in Christ are not part of the first resurrection."

Today, you need to embrace His words and the words of the Holy Spirit.

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death,c so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.
16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise = (First Resurrection as Promised by the LJC = Revelation 2:10-11 , Rev 20:4-6

17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord

Read what you are quoting before you post and that might help you. The catching away is different from the resurrection. That is a basic biblical truth. One needs to be physically dead to be physically resurrected. The living in Christ are "changed" and "caught up" when He comes - which is altogether different. He does not kill the living in Christ when He comes.
 
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rwb

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You flat out are calling God a liar in your post here by saying: "the living in Christ are not part of the first resurrection."

Today, you need to embrace His words and the words of the Holy Spirit.

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death,c so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.
16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise = (First Resurrection as Promised by the LJC = Revelation 2:10-11 , Rev 20:4-6

17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord

David, wpm is proving exactly the opposite! When we are alive in Christ, having been born again, born from above, spiritual re-birth from spiritual death to spiritually alive in Him, we are of the "first resurrection" because we have part in the resurrection of Christ, Who is the first to be resurrected from the dead.

Believers do not grieve in death, because we KNOW with blessed assurance that death will not keep us from being alive in heaven with the Lord when our body dies. And we KNOW that when the last trump sounds that time for this Gospel age shall be no longer, Christ will return with all who are alive with Him in heaven. And our physical body will be resurrected and changed (along with the bodies of the faithful saints still alive) to be reunited with our living spiritual body. Once again being made complete and without sin and death we shall be with Christ forever on the new earth.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 (KJV) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
 
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David in NJ

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When we live in time with Christ, the life we have through Him is eternal, which means we never die. The following translations have correctly shown this truth, because none of them show the physically dead coming/returning to life again. John sees only the living souls of faithful saints in heaven because in TIME, John likens a thousand years, they LIVED and REIGNED with Christ. Therefore, having part in the first resurrection (through the resurrection of Christ, who is the first resurrection of the dead) in TIME, in physical death their spirits returned to God (Ecc. 12:7), so John sees spiritual bodies, living souls in heaven after physical death of believers.

Revelation 20:4 (KJV) they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:4 (YLT)
they did live and reign with Christ the thousand years;

Revelation 20:4 (WEB)
They lived, and reigned with Christ for the thousand years.

Revelation 20:4 (ASV) they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 20:4 (NKJV) they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Mankind MUST have part in the first resurrection in this age of TIME to overcome condemnation in the second death. John wrote of this TIME coming in the hour that had come when John wrote. The hour was when the dead; spiritually dead in trespasses and sins would hear the voice of the Son of God and live. This is a clear depiction of the Word of life preached, resulting in faith unto everlasting life for whosoever believes. (Ro 10:17) All who hear Christ's Word and believe on Him when this TIME (hour) had come shall not be condemned, but has passed from death to life in Christ, because He is the resurrection (first) and the life, and though physically dead shall live forever.

John 5:25-27 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

John 5:24 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 11:25-26 (KJV) Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

continued below:
100% TRUTH = "When we live in time with Christ, the life we have through Him is eternal"

100% FALSE = "The following translations have correctly shown this truth, because none of them show the physically dead coming/returning to life again." (Do not call God a liar).

100% TRUTH = 1 Thess 4:13-18 , 1 John 3:1-3 , 1 Cor ch15 , Revelation

Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Look, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison to test you, and you will suffer tribulation for ten days. Be faithful even unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who overcomes will not be harmed by the second death.

The LORD Jesus Christ says there is ONLY One Way to avoid the Second Death = and that is by being part of the FIRST Resurrection.

Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete.
This is the first resurrection.
6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.


Listen to the Truth, Learn from the Truth and you will Know the TRUTH.
 

David in NJ

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David, wpm is proving exactly the opposite! When we are alive in Christ, having been born again, born from above, spiritual re-birth from spiritual death to spiritually alive in Him, we are of the "first resurrection" because we have part in the resurrection of Christ, Who is the first to be resurrected from the dead.

Believers do not grieve in death, because we KNOW with blessed assurance that death will not keep us from being alive in heaven with the Lord when our body dies. And we KNOW that when the last trump sounds that time for this Gospel age shall be no longer, Christ will return with all who are alive with Him in heaven. And our physical body will be resurrected and changed (along with the bodies of the faithful saints still alive) to be reunited with our living spiritual body. Once again being made complete and without sin and death we shall be with Christ forever on the new earth.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 (KJV) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
90% Truth = "When we are alive in Christ, having been born again, born from above, spiritual re-birth from spiritual death to spiritually alive in Him, we are of the "first resurrection" because we have part in the resurrection of Christ, Who is the first to be resurrected from the dead."

You are missing something here = SEE Post 1,894 = SEE the very words of LJC

The FIRST Resurrection is LJC, which we now are Living IN thru being BORN- AGAIN by the Eternal Spirit of God.
the part you are excluding is the FACT that your physical body is cursed to death by God and that body must die and be discarded.

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

TODAY, hear His Voice thru the Living Words of God = the Holy Scriptures

But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be(future tense) made alive.
23But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him.

HIS Second Coming = First Resurrection of the Dead in Christ and the living who belong to HIM
 

David in NJ

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David, wpm is proving exactly the opposite! When we are alive in Christ, having been born again, born from above, spiritual re-birth from spiritual death to spiritually alive in Him, we are of the "first resurrection" because we have part in the resurrection of Christ, Who is the first to be resurrected from the dead.

Believers do not grieve in death, because we KNOW with blessed assurance that death will not keep us from being alive in heaven with the Lord when our body dies. And we KNOW that when the last trump sounds that time for this Gospel age shall be no longer, Christ will return with all who are alive with Him in heaven. And our physical body will be resurrected and changed (along with the bodies of the faithful saints still alive) to be reunited with our living spiritual body. Once again being made complete and without sin and death we shall be with Christ forever on the new earth.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 (KJV) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
100% TRUTH = 1 Thess 4:13-18 = all of it = not just a part of it

You, @WPM are 100% Correct that we (our spirit/soul) have been Born-Again by the Eternal SPIRIT of CHRIST = First Resurrection

The FIRST Resurrection is not COMPLETED until HIS Second Coming = 1 Thess 4:13-18 , Rev ch2 & Rev ch19-ch20

Are you able to SEE this?
 

David in NJ

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David, wpm is proving exactly the opposite! When we are alive in Christ, having been born again, born from above, spiritual re-birth from spiritual death to spiritually alive in Him, we are of the "first resurrection" because we have part in the resurrection of Christ, Who is the first to be resurrected from the dead.

Believers do not grieve in death, because we KNOW with blessed assurance that death will not keep us from being alive in heaven with the Lord when our body dies. And we KNOW that when the last trump sounds that time for this Gospel age shall be no longer, Christ will return with all who are alive with Him in heaven. And our physical body will be resurrected and changed (along with the bodies of the faithful saints still alive) to be reunited with our living spiritual body. Once again being made complete and without sin and death we shall be with Christ forever on the new earth.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 (KJV) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
100% TRUTH except this part "new earth"
You said: "Believers do not grieve in death, because we KNOW with blessed assurance that death will not keep us from being alive in heaven with the Lord when our body dies. And we KNOW that when the last trump sounds that time for this Gospel age shall be no longer, Christ will return with all who are alive with Him in heaven. And our physical body will be resurrected and changed (along with the bodies of the faithful saints still alive) to be reunited with our living spiritual body. Once again being made complete and without sin and death we shall be with Christ forever on the new earth."

100% TRUTH except this part "new earth"

The NEW Earth only comes AFTER the 1,000 Year Reign on this current earth = Revelation chapters 20 - 22

Can you SEE this from God's Word in Revelation chapters 19 -22?
 

David in NJ

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The rest of the dead, those who have also lived and died in TIME will not be resurrected to life until the last trumpet sounds in the same hour that is coming when all in the graves will be physically resurrected to everlasting life, or condemnation. This is a depiction of the one and only physical resurrection of every human body in the graves hearing the voice of Christ and coming forth for resurrection life, or resurrection of damnation that shall come on the last day of this age of TIME.

John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Paul spoke not only of the bodily resurrection that shall be in the hour that is coming, but also of the spiritual or first resurrection man must have part of in TIME. Paul writes with confidence, knowing that while he lived in his body destined to die he was not with the Lord in heaven. Paul found comfort in the knowledge that when he physically died he would be present with the Lord in heaven. Which is why Paul writes in death there will be great gain, for physical death could not prevent him from being with Christ which is far better.

2 Corinthians 5:6-8 (KJV) Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Philippians 1:21-23 (KJV) For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

Christ, since His resurrection became the firstfruits of them that had already died in faith. Though some faithful saints had already physically died before the advent of Christ, since they died in faith they were spiritually alive in Him, and through His Spirit ascended with Christ to heaven. As spiritual bodies, Christ descended into the place of the faithful physically dead (grave, Abraham's bosom) and freed those faithful saints who were captive in the grave. (see the parable of Lazurus & the rich man)

1 Corinthians 15:20-22 (KJV) But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Ephesians 4:8-10 (KJV) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Paul shows those who had already died in faith with Christ the firstfruits, were of the first resurrection. When Christ appears the second time at the end Paul shows the faithful saints being resurrected to immortality and incorruptible physical bodies fit for life in the next age on the new earth. But until that time He must reign till all enemies are put under His feet.

1 Corinthians 15:23-25 (KJV) But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

Answering the question of how the dead are raised up, Paul says the dead will be made alive, but that which is sown in the earth at death will not be the body raised to life. The bodies raised to life when the last trump sounds will change from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible physical bodies. But when the physical body of saints die, the body that shall be is NOT physical, but is a spiritual body, a celestial/heavenly body. The natural body will be raised in incorruption and immortal when the last trump sounds, but also raised with Christ, the firstfruits, them who died, and now all who physically die in Christ, who are raised when our natural/physical body dies, a spiritual body, because there is both a natural body and there is a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:35-38 (KJV) But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

1 Corinthians 15:40 (KJV) There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

1 Corinthians 15:42-44 (KJV) So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Paul has already said that when the body of believers is dead, we are present with the Lord. Now Paul shows us how we are present with the Lord in heaven when we physically die in Him. In death believers shall be like the heavenly bodies (celestial), who, as spiritual body bear the image of the Lord from heaven, heavenly bodies. That's why Christ tells us in the resurrection we shall be as the angels of God in heaven, spiritual beings, because God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. This is why Paul writes that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God (in heaven), neither does corruption (mortal & corruptible physical flesh) inherit the Kingdom of God on the new earth.

1 Corinthians 15:46-50 (KJV) Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Mark 12:23-26 (KJV) In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife. And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God? For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven. And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?

Mark 12:27 (KJV) He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
This is where your confusion is = you are mixing two separate TRUTHS into one.

You said: "Paul has already said that when the body of believers is dead, we are present with the Lord. Now Paul shows us how we are present with the Lord in heaven when we physically die in Him. In death believers shall be like the heavenly bodies (celestial), who, as spiritual body bear the image of the Lord from heaven, heavenly bodies. That's why Christ tells us in the resurrection we shall be as the angels of God in heaven, spiritual beings, because God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. This is why Paul writes that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God (in heaven), neither does corruption (mortal & corruptible physical flesh) inherit the Kingdom of God on the new earth."

100% Truth = "Paul has already said that when the body of believers is dead, we are present with the Lord. Now Paul shows us how we are present with the Lord in heaven when we physically die in Him."

100% Error = The part you are in error is assuming the Saints in heaven are given thier New Glorified Bodies.

100% Truth = We are NOT given our Glorified Bodies until the FIRST Resurrection.

Go back and read Revelation = NO Glorified bodies given until chapter 20


Rev ch6
And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld. 10And they cried out in a loud voice, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You avenge our blood and judge those who dwell upon the earth?”

11Then each of them was given a white robe and told to rest a little while longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers, were killed, just as they had been killed.
 

rwb

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100% TRUTH = "When we live in time with Christ, the life we have through Him is eternal"

100% FALSE = "The following translations have correctly shown this truth, because none of them show the physically dead coming/returning to life again." (Do not call God a liar).

100% TRUTH = 1 Thess 4:13-18 , 1 John 3:1-3 , 1 Cor ch15 , Revelation

Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Look, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison to test you, and you will suffer tribulation for ten days. Be faithful even unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who overcomes will not be harmed by the second death.

The LORD Jesus Christ says there is ONLY One Way to avoid the Second Death = and that is by being part of the FIRST Resurrection.

Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete.
This is the first resurrection.
6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.


Listen to the Truth, Learn from the Truth and you will Know the TRUTH.

Showing various translations is NOT calling God a liar. It is showing we need to do further investigation to find which translation has rightly interpreted the verse. That's why I gave you verses proving when believers physically die they are still present with the Lord in heaven. This is not depicting physical resurrection because there will be no physical resurrection of human bodies until the last trump sounds, and TIME for this age shall be no longer. In this way it is proven which translations have correctly understood and interpreted the verse, and which translations have allowed their bias for millennialism to influence their translation. You might want to reconsider which translation you use to inform your doctrine?

Yes, the only way to overcome the second death is through having part in the first resurrection. Again, I agree those who shall reign with Christ in TIME, likened a thousand years, are called blessed and holy and shall be priests of God and Christ and reign with Him during the same TIME likened a thousand years that the martyred souls of vs 4 had LIVED and REIGNED with Christ. The martyred souls of vs 4 John sees alive in heaven because in TIME, this age they had part in the resurrection of Christ. Those John calls blessed and holy also have part in the first resurrection, therefore overcome the second death will be with the martyred in heaven when their life in TIME is over. There is only one period of TIME likened a thousand years. And both those who have already physically died in Christ and those called blessed and holy who shall reign with Christ points to the same TIME likened a thousand years. This proves the first resurrection is NOT physical, but is to have spiritual life in Christ of those who were spiritually "dead in trespasses and sins".
 

WPM

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100% TRUTH = 1 Thess 4:13-18 = all of it = not just a part of it

You, @WPM are 100% Correct that we (our spirit/soul) have been Born-Again by the Eternal SPIRIT of CHRIST = First Resurrection

The FIRST Resurrection is not COMPLETED until HIS Second Coming = 1 Thess 4:13-18 , Rev ch2 & Rev ch19-ch20

Are you able to SEE this?

Ok. So, you now accept that the first resurrection is Christ's resurrection 2000 years ago? We are in agreement. That means that the spiritual reign of the redeemed in Christ began 2000 years ago.

The resurrection of mankind when Jesus comes is the physical resurrection. That cannot also be the first resurrection, because it already happened. However, there is an obvious connection between the two.
 
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