Amil can only be proved to be true if Amils accept all of the following terms and convincingly satisfy these terms.

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Davidpt

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Well, it destroys your reasoning. Hell and death are not people.

How does it destroy my reasoning when death and hell is never said to be cast alive into the LOF, while the opposite is true of the beast and fp? Come on now, only a living being of some kind can be cast alive into somewhere. That's plain ole' common sense even a 3rd grader should be able to comprehend. That if something is alive and being cast into something, it means it is a living being of some sort.

For example. A fisherman casts his net into a lake. Later on he checks his net and there are some fish in
it he has no use for, so he casts these fish back into the lake.

That then would equal this, assuming the fish are still alive that he casts back into the lake.

Initially he casts his net into the lake.

Later on he casts unwanted fish back into the lake. IOW, these fish were cast alive into the lake.

Can you not see per this analogy only a living creature of some kind can be cast alive into somewhere? It would be pretty silly to say that the net is cast alive into the lake. Maybe the one casting it into the lake would be alive, the net certainly wouldn't be, though.

Doctrinal bias is the only thing that can explain why anyone could insist that something cast alive into the LOF, that it is not a living being of some kind. If not doctrinal bias, what then? That the person is not reasonable, thus someone that can't be reasoned with? This person is not remotely using Scripture to interpret Scripture in this case, because if they were, they would not be using Revelation 20:14 to interpret Revelation 19:20, they would be using Revelation 20:10 to interpret Revelation 19:20. No reasonable person that can be reasoned with could or would remotely think, if something is cast into the LOF alive, that this means this something cast in is not even a living being of some sort.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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How does it destroy my reasoning when death and hell is never said to be cast alive into the LOF, while the opposite is true of the beast and fp? Come on now, only a living being of some kind can be cast alive into somewhere.
LOL. You just won't quit. You are acting as if it's talking about a literal beast and literal false prophet (which is also a beast - the one out of the earth - Rev 13:11). If you want to insist they are literally alive then do you also want to insist that it's talking about a literal beast and literal false prophet (literal beast out of the earth)? Is this a similar way that you reason that a spirit being like Satan can be literally bound with a literal chain?

Also, why do you continually ignore the fact that scrpiture indicates that prophetic beasts are kingdoms (Daniel 7:23)?

Also, why do you continually ignore that the beast existed before John wrote the book of Revelation (Revelation 17:8)? Do you know how it makes you look when you don't take things like this into consideration? It makes it look like you are just making it say what you want it to say. That's what people do when they cherry pick scripture like you do. You focus on Revelation 20:4 while ignoring what Revelation 20:6 indicates. You focus on Revelation 20:10 while ignoring what Daniel 7:23 and Revelation 17:8 indicate. What kind of way is that to interpret scripture? To just form conclusions by your cherry picked verses while ignoring the rest? That's a horrible approach.

That's plain ole' common sense even a 3rd grader should be able to comprehend.
This says it all. You think the book of Revelation, the most highly symbolic book in all of scripture, can be interpreted by a 3rd grader. No spiritual discernment required. Any 3rd grader can interpret it. Ridiculous. No wonder you butcher it so badly. You can't hope to interpret it correctly if you approach it like any random 3rd grader would. A book that was purposely "signified" (Rev 1:1) can be understood by a 3rd grader without the aid of the Holy Spirit. Really? Unbelievable.

That if something is alive and being cast into something, it means it is a living being of some sort.

For example. A fisherman casts his net into a lake. Later on he checks his net and there are some fish in
it he has no use for, so he casts these fish back into the lake.

That then would equal this, assuming the fish are still alive that he casts back into the lake.

Initially he casts his net into the lake.

Later on he casts unwanted fish back into the lake. IOW, these fish were cast alive into the lake.
LOL! You are talking about literal fish here. And you think that's a valid comparison to symbolic beasts? That's nonsense. Please tell me. What made you decide to interpret the most highly symbolic book in all of scripture as literally as you possibly can?
 
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WPM

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How does it destroy my reasoning when death and hell is never said to be cast alive into the LOF, while the opposite is true of the beast and fp? Come on now, only a living being of some kind can be cast alive into somewhere. That's plain ole' common sense even a 3rd grader should be able to comprehend. That if something is alive and being cast into something, it means it is a living being of some sort.

For example. A fisherman casts his net into a lake. Later on he checks his net and there are some fish in
it he has no use for, so he casts these fish back into the lake.

That then would equal this, assuming the fish are still alive that he casts back into the lake.

Initially he casts his net into the lake.

Later on he casts unwanted fish back into the lake. IOW, these fish were cast alive into the lake.

Can you not see per this analogy only a living creature of some kind can be cast alive into somewhere? It would be pretty silly to say that the net is cast alive into the lake. Maybe the one casting it into the lake would be alive, the net certainly wouldn't be, though.

Doctrinal bias is the only thing that can explain why anyone could insist that something cast alive into the LOF, that it is not a living being of some kind. If not doctrinal bias, what then? That the person is not reasonable, thus someone that can't be reasoned with? This person is not remotely using Scripture to interpret Scripture in this case, because if they were, they would not be using Revelation 20:14 to interpret Revelation 19:20, they would be using Revelation 20:10 to interpret Revelation 19:20. No reasonable person that can be reasoned with could or would remotely think, if something is cast into the LOF alive, that this means this something cast in is not even a living being of some sort.
More theological ramblings from you to justify an erroneous doctrine.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Where is that indicated?

Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

How can these mortal "survivors of the tribulation" inherit the kingdom of God when Paul made it clear that mortal flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God?
Because the kingdom is on earth! It is the prophesied kingdom where Israel reigns over the gentiles, the apostles reign over Israel and Jesus reigns over all for 1000 years.

also, if you read the whole passage you would see that Jesus is on earth:

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

There are survivors of the tribulation both saved and unsaved. Jesus gathers them all and judges them for entrance into the millennial kingdom on earth.
Of course! He said He has ALL power in heaven and on earth. You don't accept what He said and what Paul said about Him in Ephesians 1:19-22. You'd rather make scripture say what you want it to say.
So He reigns over HIs father to you then?
You do not accept what He said, which is shameful. He said He has ALL power in heaven and on earth. You say He doesn't. I'm siding with Jesus.
Do you really think that Jesus is ruling the earth now? Do you think as the sovereign King he would allow the millions of abortions, murders, crimes etc.? Kind of impotent then isn't He as a ruler. Especially when Gods Word says He shall rule with a rod of iron.
John wrote that Christ IS "the prince of the kings of the earth" and that His followers have been MADE priests of God and of Christ (Revelation 1:5-6). You don't take that into account when reading Revelation 20.
I do and recognize context. We are a kingdom of priests, but the resurrected before the 1000 years are those who did not take the mark and were killed for not worshipping the antichrist- you don't take that into considerastion.
 

WPM

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Jesus is the Teacher (not you), and you are twisting the meaning of His Teaching by twisting the meaning of the Greek word anothen, and you cannot refute His Teaching.

When a human is conceived, what takes place is not a (dead) human life being re-conceived or re-born or resurrected or quickened from death. It is conceived from the first (anothen).

When a human is born, what takes place is not a (dead) human life being re-born or resurrected or quickened. It is born from the first (anothen).

"That which is born [gennáō] of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born [gennáō] of the Spirit is spirit. Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born from the first (anothen), he cannot see the kingdom of God. Do not marvel that I said to you, You must be born from the first (anothen)." -- John 3:3 & 6-7.

And you do not need to repeat your twisting of His Teaching, because your teaching remains your own, and this is why you cannot ever grow any further in your understanding of the Word of God. Because the faith you place in your own human-eology that masquerades as Christian theology has you stuck where you are (ears stopped up).
Not so! When you take a deep extensive analysis of the usage of this Greek word in Scripture you start to get a real sense of its meaning.

Jesus said in John 3:3: "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again [Gr. anōthen], he cannot see the kingdom of God."

The word again (in “born again”) is taken from the Greek word anōthen; meaning “from above.” This makes sense. When we get saved, when we are raised from the grave of our sin, we are birthed from above. We are now seated together with Christ.

Interestingly, in the same chapter in verse 31, John the Baptist testified of Jesus, "He that cometh from above [Gr. anōthen] is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all."

Christ was a heavenly man who became an earthly man so that we earthly men could become heavenly men. He was from above. When Christ came to this earth mankind encountered heaven face-to-face. God had stepped out of eternity into time.

John 19:10-11 records an interesting interaction between Pilate and Jesus at Christ's judgment: “Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee? Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above [Gr. anōthen]: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.”

There is absolutely no ambiguity about the meaning of the word anōthen here. Jesus is confirming where ultimate authority lies – above in heaven.

We find the same word used in Matthew 27:51: “And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top [Gr. anōthen] to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent.” Mark 15:38 parallels this.

This is literally telling us that the curtain was ripped from above to beneath.

John 19:23: “Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top [Gr. anōthen] throughout.”

Once again, this shows that it relates to above.

James 1:17 tells us: “Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above [Gr. anōthen], and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.”

Who would question the meaning of this? This interpretation is not only correct, but makes sense.

James 3:14-15, 17 teaches: “But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. This wisdom descendeth not from above [Gr. anōthen] , but is earthly, sensual, devilish… But the wisdom that is from above [Gr. anōthen] is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.”

It is not hard to grasp the flow and meaning of words by knowing Scripture. Your interpretation of “first” does not fit the context of any of these passages. You insist on such to reinforce your false teaching. The word used in the NT for "first" is prōton, which is actually found in this passage above. It is adequate to express that thought. So, in context, and in consist keeping with the inspired narrative, anōthen means "above."

Jesus is described as “the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die” (John 6:50).

Jesus testified Himself in John 8:23: "Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world."

Jesus is shown here as having come down from above.
 
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IndianaRob

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When you take a deep extensive analysis of the usage of this Greek word in Scripture you start to get a real sense of its meaning.

Jesus said in John 3:3: "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again [Gr. anōthen], he cannot see the kingdom of God."

The word again (in “born again”) is taken from the Greek word anōthen; meaning “from above.” This makes sense. When we get saved, when we are raised from the grave of our sin, we are birthed from above. We are now seated together with Christ.

Interestingly, in the same chapter in verse 31, John the Baptist testified of Jesus, "He that cometh from above [Gr. anōthen] is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all."

Christ was a heavenly man who became an earthly man so that we earthly men could become heavenly men. He was from above. When Christ came to this earth mankind encountered heaven face-to-face. God had stepped out of eternity into time.

John 19:10-11 records an interesting interaction between Pilate and Jesus at Christ's judgment: “Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee? Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above [Gr. anōthen]: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.”

There is absolutely no ambiguity about the meaning of the word anōthen here. Jesus is confirming where ultimate authority lies – above in heaven.

We find the same word used in Matthew 27:51: “And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top [Gr. anōthen] to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent.” Mark 15:38 parallels this.

This is literally telling us that the curtain was ripped from above to beneath.

John 19:23: “Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top [Gr. anōthen] throughout.”

James 1:17: “Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above [Gr. anōthen], and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.”

James 3:14-15, 17: “But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. This wisdom descendeth not from above [Gr. anōthen] , but is earthly, sensual, devilish… But the wisdom that is from above [Gr. anōthen] is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.”

It is not hard to grasp the flow and meaning of words by knowing Scripture. Your interpretation of “first” does not fit the context of any of these passages. You insist on such to reinforce your false teaching. The word used in the NT for "first" is prōton, which is actually found in this passage above. It is adequate to express that thought. So, in context, and in consist keeping with the inspired narrative, anōthen means "above."

Jesus is described as “the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die” (John 6:50).

Jesus testified Himself in John 8:23: "Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world."

Jesus is shown here as having come down from above.
This absolutely is not right.

Salvation comes immediately but you’re not born again until Christ is formed in you from reading incorruptible word of God.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
 

Zao is life

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When you take a deep extensive analysis of the usage of this Greek word in Scripture you start to get a real sense of its meaning.
Which is something you failed in because of your doctrinal bias.

Here anothen means "from the first, the beginning":

"it seemed good to me also, following all things accurately from the very first [anothen], to write to you in order, most excellent Theophilus" -- Luke 1:3

"My manner of life from my youth, which was at the first among mine own nation at Jerusalem, know all the Jews; Which knew me from the beginning [anothen], if they would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee." -- Acts 26:4-5

"But now, after that all of you have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn all of you again to the weak and beggarly elements, unto which all of you desire again [anothen - from the beginning] to be in bondage?" -- Galatians 4:9

And here it means "from the top":

Matthew 27:51; Mark 15:38.

And here it means "from above":

John 3:31; John 19:11; James 1:17 + the verses you quoted.

So what the word means in John 3:3 & 7 - whether "from the first, the beginning", or "from above" - is a matter of opinion and doctrinal bias.

Strongs Greek 507 ἄνω a[nw ano {an'-o}
adverb from 473; upward or on the top:--above, brim, high, up.
see GREEK for 473

Strongs Greek 509 ἄνωθεν a[nwqen anothen {an'-o-then}
from 507; from above; by analogy, from the first; by implication, anew:--from above, again, from the beginning (very first), the top.
see GREEK for 507

"By implication" in the above definition means that it implies from the first, the beginning.

And as IndianaRob pointed out to you Peter states we are "born again not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23).

The only way we can be born again of incorruptible seed by the Word of God which abides forever is to be born from the first, the beginning.

So we disagree and IMO the reason we disagree is because one (yourself) has doctrinal bias and the other one (myself) is only interested in what the scriptures are actually saying.

But that's my opinion. Yours is different. So we disagree.

Info @IndianaRob
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Because the kingdom is on earth! It is the prophesied kingdom where Israel reigns over the gentiles, the apostles reign over Israel and Jesus reigns over all for 1000 years.
Regardless of where the kingdom is, Paul very clearly taught that mortal flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 15:50). But, you have mortal flesh and blood inheriting the kingdom of God. You can't get around the fact that you are contradicting 1 Corinthians 15:50 with your doctrine.

also, if you read the whole passage you would see that Jesus is on earth:

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

There are survivors of the tribulation both saved and unsaved. Jesus gathers them all and judges them for entrance into the millennial kingdom on earth.
Where does that say He is on earth there? It doesn't! You are trying to make scripture say what you want it to say! The fact of the matter is that the judgment cannot take place in heaven or on earth as we know it because of what it says here:

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

So He reigns over HIs father to you then?
No, I didn't say that. Are you trying to distract from the fact that He said He has authority over all of heaven and earth (Matthew 28:18)? Of course it would be implied that does not include the Father who is eternal and not confined within the heaven and earth that He created.

Do you really think that Jesus is ruling the earth now?
Of course I do. He said that He is. John said that He IS "the ruler of the kings of the earth" (Revelation 1:5). I accept what scripture teaches! So should you. Your understanding of how He should rule is no different than what the Pharisees expected of the Messiah. Think about that.

Do you think as the sovereign King he would allow the millions of abortions, murders, crimes etc.? Kind of impotent then isn't He as a ruler.
Do you not think that God is sovereign? You are sadly mistaken if you don't! Yet, He has allowed those things from the beginning of time! Your understanding of being sovereign and reigning is completely flawed! Using your logic, you must believe that God has been impotent since He created man since you believe man's behavior determines who is sovereign or not. Allowing bad things to happen is because there is free will and does not reflect any weakness on God the Father's part or on King Jesus's part.

Especially when Gods Word says He shall rule with a rod of iron.
Him ruling with a rod of iron has to do with Him destroying His enemies. You are not reading scripture carefully at all.

Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Him ruling with a rod of iron is related directly to Him destroying His enemies. Dashing them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Smiting them. Treading them in the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. You think it means Him ruling over people for a thousand years while dictating their very move. Nonsense. You ignore that it is associated with Him destroying His enemies. Many scriptures teach that He will be destroying all of His enemies when He comes (Matthew 24:35-39, Luke 17:26-37, 1 Thess 4:14-5:3, 2 Thess 1:7-10, 2 Peter 3:10-12, Rev 14:14-20, Rev 19:17-18).

I do and recognize context.
You clearly do not. You don't have any clue of what it means for God/Jesus to be sovereign and to be reigning over heaven and earth.

We are a kingdom of priests, but the resurrected before the 1000 years are those who did not take the mark and were killed for not worshipping the antichrist- you don't take that into considerastion.
False. I take everything into consideration. I am not obligated to agree with your futurist view of everything. The book of Revelation is not a futurist book.

Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

It refers to things that happened in the past, things that were happening while John was writing the book and things that would happen from then on until the future second coming of Jesus Christ when He will usher in the new heavens and new earth.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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This absolutely is not right.

Salvation comes immediately but you’re not born again until Christ is formed in you from reading incorruptible word of God.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Wrong. Salvation is the result of receiving the Holy Spirit. Being saved and being born of the Holy Spirit is synonymous. You can't enter the kingdom of God without being born again (John 3:3-5). In your view, someone could be saved and die before being born again and they would then not enter the kingdom of God. Despite being saved. That is complete nonsense.

Ephesians 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

This shows that being sealed with the Holy Spirit occurs immediately after putting your trust in Christ. Surely, someone who has been sealed with the Holy Spirit has been born of the Holy Spirit (born again).
 
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IndianaRob

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Wrong. Salvation is the result of receiving the Holy Spirit. Being saved and being born of the Holy Spirit is synonymous. You can't enter the kingdom of God without being born again (John 3:3-5). In your view, someone could be saved and die before being born again and they would then not enter the kingdom of God. Despite being saved. That is complete nonsense.

Ephesians 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

This shows that being sealed with the Holy Spirit occurs immediately after putting your trust in Christ. Surely, someone who has been sealed with the Holy Spirit has been born of the Holy Spirit (born again).
I’m going to give you a verse that explains exactly how you’re born again and them I’m going to watch you say that it really doesn’t mean what it says and then I’m going to be done.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
 

Rich R

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Do you get your understanding of the timing of Christ's reign by interpreting scripture with scripture? Not at all. Scripture teaches that He has been reigning since His resurrection (Matt 28:18, Eph 1:19-23, Rev 1:5-6), but you ignore that.
The word "reign" is the Greek word G936 βασιλεύω basileuo. While used four times in Revelation, it is not used in any of the verses you mentioned.

I think you might want to consider how the following verses fit into the idea that Jesus is currently reigning on the earth:

2 Cor 4:4,

In whom the god of this world (age, Greek aion) hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.​
  • "...the god of this world..." certainly means something. It goes right along with Luke 4:4.
Rom 16:20,

And the God of peace shall bruise (future tense) Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you. Amen.​
  • Looks like, Satan, the god of this world, is not under Jesus' feet just yet.
  • Won't happen until the next age, not the present age which 2 Cor 4:4 mentions
When Jesus does rule on the earth, it will be with a rod of iron. Judging from the state of the world today, it appears that whoever is ruling is doing so with a wet noodle. He's certainly not doing much to stem injustice. It appears that it's in fact being highly encouraged
 

IndianaRob

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The word "reign" is the Greek word G936 βασιλεύω basileuo. While used four times in Revelation, it is not used in any of the verses you mentioned.

I think you might want to consider how the following verses fit into the idea that Jesus is currently reigning on the earth:

2 Cor 4:4,

In whom the god of this world (age, Greek aion) hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.​
  • "...the god of this world..." certainly means something. It goes right along with Luke 4:4.
Rom 16:20,

And the God of peace shall bruise (future tense) Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you. Amen.​
  • Looks like, Satan, the god of this world, is not under Jesus' feet just yet.
  • Won't happen until the next age, not the present age which 2 Cor 4:4 mentions
When Jesus does rule on the earth, it will be with a rod of iron. Judging from the state of the world today, it appears that whoever is ruling is doing so with a wet noodle. He's certainly not doing much to stem injustice. It appears that it's in fact being highly encouraged
I’m pretty sure the people that are taking over this world right now are the rod that Jesus is using to punish this wicked world.
 

WPM

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This absolutely is not right.

Salvation comes immediately but you’re not born again until Christ is formed in you from reading incorruptible word of God.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

What is not right? Show me!
 

Spiritual Israelite

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I’m going to give you a verse that explains exactly how you’re born again and them I’m going to watch you say that it really doesn’t mean what it says and then I’m going to be done.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Naturally, you didn't address anything I said. I have no idea what you are trying to say here. A person is saved/born again after hearing the word of God and responding favorably to it by believing it and putting their faith and trust in Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior (Romans 10:9-10).

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
 

IndianaRob

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But why are the poor getting punished? I see the scriptures as pretty clear that the poor are the very ones who Jesus will rescue.
God will always protect the poor but that means the poor in spirit because that phrase is many times used to represent Gods people.
 

IndianaRob

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Naturally, you didn't address anything I said. I have no idea what you are trying to say here. A person is saved/born again after hearing the word of God and responding favorably to it by believing it and putting their faith and trust in Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior (Romans 10:9-10).

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
I didn’t address anything you said because everything you said is YOUR version of being born again.

Just like your using Romans 10:17 to prove your point. Faith is not the second birth.

I’m done, I’m not going to debate your beliefs.
 

IndianaRob

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What is not right? Show me!
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Explain to me how calling upon the name of the Lord (Jesus please save me)

And

Being born again by the word of God (reading the Bible) are the same thing.

Please don’t post a page full of verses that have nothing to do with this. Both of these verses are stand alone and you don’t need any other supporting scripture to explain how these two verses are saying the same thing.
 

Douggg

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Where does that say He is on earth there? It doesn't! You are trying to make scripture say what you want it to say! The fact of the matter is that the judgment cannot take place in heaven or on earth as we know it because of what it says here:

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Your are Amil and therefore do not acknowledge the literal 1000 years reign of Jesus from this earth. Jesus's return to this earth is in Psalms 2, which begins with the kings of the earth gathering their armies to stop Jesus from returning with His army.

But in spite of their efforts, God will set Jesus as king on Mt. Zion the temple mount in Jerusalem, and from there Jesus will rule with a rod of iron. That begins the 1000 years reign of Jesus from this earth.

Psalms 2:1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
 

WPM

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Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Explain to me how calling upon the name of the Lord (Jesus please save me)

And

Being born again by the word of God (reading the Bible) are the same thing.

Please don’t post a page full of verses that have nothing to do with this. Both of these verses are stand alone and you don’t need any other supporting scripture to explain how these two verses are saying the same thing.
Don't tell me what to do.

Being born from above is being born of the Word.