Abiding In Christ Necessary for Eternal Life

[MatthewG]

Yes, it is being "missed" by those who disagree with my position.

That's why it is important to encourage people to get into that bible and read the word, amen.

 

[GracePeace]

Remember what Jesus said to those people who were the religious leaders in that day?

Matthew 15:8​

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.​

There was a severity, that the people were under... it was God's wrath that would be poured out among them which they were warned about, from even John the baptist.

Matthew 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

The "severity" is the "curse" and spiritual "death" that results from unrighteousness--by not "being found in Him not having a righteousness of my own from the Law but having a God's righteousness from faith in Christ" (Php 3:9).

 

[GracePeace]

That's why it is important to encourage people to get into that bible and read the word, amen.

Well, they are in the Word, but they are misinterpreting the Word because of their teachers--that is why I am raising those topics they are missing.

 

[GracePeace]

Remember what Jesus said to those people who were the religious leaders in that day?

Matthew 15:8​

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.​

There was a severity, that the people were under... it was God's wrath that would be poured out among them which they were warned about, from even John the baptist.

Matthew 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

I have some stuff I have to do. I'll be back later.

 

[MatthewG]

The "severity" is the "death" and the "curse" that results from unrighteousness, which is not having God's righteousness.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Galatians 6:7-16

New King James Version

​

7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. 9 And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith.

Glory Only in the Cross​

11 See with what large letters I have written to you with my own hand! 12 As many as desire to make a good showing in the flesh, these would compel you to be circumcised, only that they may not suffer persecution for the cross of Christ. 13 For not even those who are circumcised keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh. 14 But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by [a]whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation.

Blessing and a Plea​

16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.

 

[GracePeace]

Remember what Jesus said to those people who were the religious leaders in that day?

Matthew 15:8​

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.​

There was a severity, that the people were under... it was God's wrath that would be poured out among them which they were warned about, from even John the baptist.

Matthew 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

There is a coming wrath/severity, but there is a wrath/severity that men are already under

Psalm 90
9For all our days pass away under your wrath; we bring our years to an end like a sigh.

John 3
36The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not [m]obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”

The wrath "remains" on those who do not believe--it isn't just "coming".
The "wrath" people have been under since Adam has been the "death" resulting from his "sin".
That is why it says "those who do not believe will not see life"--they haven't even had life, because they're "dead in sins".
This "death" is the "severity" which "unbelievers" are under (Ro 11:17-23).
The "kindness" is the "life" which believers enjoy.

 

[GracePeace]

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Galatians 6:7-16​

​

New King James Version​

​

​

7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. 9 And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith.

Glory Only in the Cross​

11 See with what large letters I have written to you with my own hand! 12 As many as desire to make a good showing in the flesh, these would compel you to be circumcised, only that they may not suffer persecution for the cross of Christ. 13 For not even those who are circumcised keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh. 14 But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by [a]whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation.

Blessing and a Plea​

16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.

Yes, and if you back up a little in Romans 6, you'll see the "gift of eternal life IN CHRIST JESUS" is because "IN CHRIST JESUS" we have the gift of "slavery to righteousness"--the fact that righteousness is a gift is what turns eternal life into a gift. However, this is only "IN CHRIST JESUS", but not all "remain in Him" (1 Jn 2:28), so the question is how to "remain in Him", and this is by believing in the Name of God Son and loving one another (1 Jn 3:23,24).

This is why the believer in Ro 14:23 is "condemned", whereas those "in Christ" enjoy "no condemnation": he is not remaining in Christ, because he is not keeping the command to "love one another", because "faith works by love", so by not walking in faith, but doing what he doubts, he is not loving, and he is not remaining in Christ.

 

[MatthewG]

There is a coming wrath/severity, but there is a wrath/severity that men are already under

Psalm 90
9For all our days pass away under your wrath; we bring our years to an end like a sigh.

John 3
36The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not [m]obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”

The wrath "remains" on those who do not believe--it isn't just "coming".
The "wrath" people have been under since Adam has been the "death" resulting from his "sin".
That is why it says "those who do not believe will not see life"--they haven't even had life, because they're "dead in sins".
This "death" is the "severity" which "unbelievers" are under (Ro 11:17-23).
The "kindness" is the "life" which believers enjoy.

There was a coming wrath. Remember the scripture I shared with you earlier, of John warning of the wrath to come. The Jewish nation had the message of Malachi as well.

Malachi 3

New American Standard Bible 1995

​

The Purifier​

3 “Behold, I am going to send My [a]messenger, and he will [b]clear the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; [c]and the [d]messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming,” says the Lord of hosts. 2 “But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner’s fire and like [e]fullers’ soap. 3 He will sit as a smelter and purifier of silver, and He will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, so that they may present to the Lord [f]offerings in righteousness. 4 Then the [g]offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to the Lord as in the days of old and as in former years.
5 “Then I will draw near to you for judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers and against the adulterers and against those who swear falsely, and against those who oppress the wage earner in his wages, the widow and the [h]orphan, and those who turn aside the [i]alien and do not [j]fear Me,” says the Lord of hosts. 6 “For [k]I, the Lord, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, [l]are not consumed.
7 “From the days of your fathers you have turned aside from My statutes and have not kept them. Return to Me, and I will return to you,” says the Lord of hosts. “But you say, ‘How shall we return?’

You Have Robbed God​

8 “Will a man [m]rob God? Yet you are robbing Me! But you say, ‘How have we robbed You?’ In tithes and [n]offerings. 9 You are cursed with a curse, for you are [o]robbing Me, the whole nation of you! 10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be [p]food in My house, and test Me now in this,” says the Lord of hosts, “if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until [q]it overflows. 11 Then I will rebuke the devourer for you, so that it will not [r]destroy the fruits of the ground; nor will your vine in the field cast its grapes,” says the Lord of hosts. 12 “All the nations will call you blessed, for you shall be a delightful land,” says the Lord of hosts.
13 “Your words have been [s]arrogant against Me,” says the Lord. “Yet you say, ‘What have we spoken against You?’ 14 You have said, ‘It is vain to serve God; and what profit is it that we have kept His charge, and that we have walked in mourning before the Lord of hosts? 15 So now we call the arrogant blessed; not only are the doers of wickedness built up but they also test God and escape.’”

The Book of Remembrance​

16 Then those who [t]feared the Lord spoke to one another, and the Lord gave attention and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before Him for those who [u]fear the Lord and who esteem His name. 17 “They will be Mine,” says the Lord of hosts, “on the day that I [v]prepare My [w]own possession, and I will [x]spare them as a man [y]spares his own son who serves him.” 18 So you will again distinguish between the righteous and the wicked, between one who serves God and one who does not serve Him.



~~~ From your perspective people are still subject to God's wrath? Why do you believe so? Was not the wrath of Yahava, to put material Israel in it's place?

 

[MatthewG]

There was a coming wrath. Remember the scripture I shared with you earlier, of John warning of the wrath to come. The Jewish nation had the message of Malachi as well.

Malachi 3​

​

New American Standard Bible 1995​

​

​

The Purifier​

3 “Behold, I am going to send My [a]messenger, and he will [b]clear the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; [c]and the [d]messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming,” says the Lord of hosts. 2 “But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner’s fire and like [e]fullers’ soap. 3 He will sit as a smelter and purifier of silver, and He will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, so that they may present to the Lord [f]offerings in righteousness. 4 Then the [g]offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to the Lord as in the days of old and as in former years.
5 “Then I will draw near to you for judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers and against the adulterers and against those who swear falsely, and against those who oppress the wage earner in his wages, the widow and the [h]orphan, and those who turn aside the [i]alien and do not [j]fear Me,” says the Lord of hosts. 6 “For [k]I, the Lord, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, [l]are not consumed.
7 “From the days of your fathers you have turned aside from My statutes and have not kept them. Return to Me, and I will return to you,” says the Lord of hosts. “But you say, ‘How shall we return?’

You Have Robbed God​

8 “Will a man [m]rob God? Yet you are robbing Me! But you say, ‘How have we robbed You?’ In tithes and [n]offerings. 9 You are cursed with a curse, for you are [o]robbing Me, the whole nation of you! 10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be [p]food in My house, and test Me now in this,” says the Lord of hosts, “if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until [q]it overflows. 11 Then I will rebuke the devourer for you, so that it will not [r]destroy the fruits of the ground; nor will your vine in the field cast its grapes,” says the Lord of hosts. 12 “All the nations will call you blessed, for you shall be a delightful land,” says the Lord of hosts.
13 “Your words have been [s]arrogant against Me,” says the Lord. “Yet you say, ‘What have we spoken against You?’ 14 You have said, ‘It is vain to serve God; and what profit is it that we have kept His charge, and that we have walked in mourning before the Lord of hosts? 15 So now we call the arrogant blessed; not only are the doers of wickedness built up but they also test God and escape.’”

The Book of Remembrance​

16 Then those who [t]feared the Lord spoke to one another, and the Lord gave attention and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before Him for those who [u]fear the Lord and who esteem His name. 17 “They will be Mine,” says the Lord of hosts, “on the day that I [v]prepare My [w]own possession, and I will [x]spare them as a man [y]spares his own son who serves him.” 18 So you will again distinguish between the righteous and the wicked, between one who serves God and one who does not serve Him.



~~~ From your perspective people are still subject to God's wrath? Why do you believe so? Was not the wrath of Yahava, to put material Israel in it's place?

MY apologies

Malachi 4

New International Version

​

Judgment and Covenant Renewal​

4 [a]“Surely the day is coming; it will burn like a furnace. All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and the day that is coming will set them on fire,” says the Lord Almighty. “Not a root or a branch will be left to them. 2 But for you who revere my name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its rays. And you will go out and frolic like well-fed calves. 3 Then you will trample on the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I act,” says the Lord Almighty.
4 “Remember the law of my servant Moses, the decrees and laws I gave him at Horeb for all Israel.
5 “See, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the Lord comes. 6 He will turn the hearts of the parents to their children, and the hearts of the children to their parents; or else I will come and strike the land with total destruction.”

 

[GracePeace]

There was a coming wrath. Remember the scripture I shared with you earlier, of John warning of the wrath to come. The Jewish nation had the message of Malachi as well.

Malachi 3​

​

New American Standard Bible 1995​

​

​

The Purifier​

3 “Behold, I am going to send My [a]messenger, and he will [b]clear the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; [c]and the [d]messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming,” says the Lord of hosts. 2 “But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner’s fire and like [e]fullers’ soap. 3 He will sit as a smelter and purifier of silver, and He will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, so that they may present to the Lord [f]offerings in righteousness. 4 Then the [g]offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to the Lord as in the days of old and as in former years.
5 “Then I will draw near to you for judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers and against the adulterers and against those who swear falsely, and against those who oppress the wage earner in his wages, the widow and the [h]orphan, and those who turn aside the [i]alien and do not [j]fear Me,” says the Lord of hosts. 6 “For [k]I, the Lord, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, [l]are not consumed.
7 “From the days of your fathers you have turned aside from My statutes and have not kept them. Return to Me, and I will return to you,” says the Lord of hosts. “But you say, ‘How shall we return?’

You Have Robbed God​

8 “Will a man [m]rob God? Yet you are robbing Me! But you say, ‘How have we robbed You?’ In tithes and [n]offerings. 9 You are cursed with a curse, for you are [o]robbing Me, the whole nation of you! 10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be [p]food in My house, and test Me now in this,” says the Lord of hosts, “if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until [q]it overflows. 11 Then I will rebuke the devourer for you, so that it will not [r]destroy the fruits of the ground; nor will your vine in the field cast its grapes,” says the Lord of hosts. 12 “All the nations will call you blessed, for you shall be a delightful land,” says the Lord of hosts.
13 “Your words have been [s]arrogant against Me,” says the Lord. “Yet you say, ‘What have we spoken against You?’ 14 You have said, ‘It is vain to serve God; and what profit is it that we have kept His charge, and that we have walked in mourning before the Lord of hosts? 15 So now we call the arrogant blessed; not only are the doers of wickedness built up but they also test God and escape.’”

The Book of Remembrance​

16 Then those who [t]feared the Lord spoke to one another, and the Lord gave attention and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before Him for those who [u]fear the Lord and who esteem His name. 17 “They will be Mine,” says the Lord of hosts, “on the day that I [v]prepare My [w]own possession, and I will [x]spare them as a man [y]spares his own son who serves him.” 18 So you will again distinguish between the righteous and the wicked, between one who serves God and one who does not serve Him.



~~~ From your perspective people are still subject to God's wrath? Why do you believe so? Was not the wrath of Yahava, to put material Israel in it's place?

The wrath has been upon men since Adam--ie, the sentence of spiritual death, and the manifold curses (some stipulated in the Law--the Law was revealed to Israel, but it is at work in the world).

 

[GracePeace]

There was a coming wrath. Remember the scripture I shared with you earlier, of John warning of the wrath to come. The Jewish nation had the message of Malachi as well.

Malachi 3​

​

New American Standard Bible 1995​

​

​

The Purifier​

3 “Behold, I am going to send My [a]messenger, and he will [b]clear the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; [c]and the [d]messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming,” says the Lord of hosts. 2 “But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner’s fire and like [e]fullers’ soap. 3 He will sit as a smelter and purifier of silver, and He will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, so that they may present to the Lord [f]offerings in righteousness. 4 Then the [g]offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to the Lord as in the days of old and as in former years.
5 “Then I will draw near to you for judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers and against the adulterers and against those who swear falsely, and against those who oppress the wage earner in his wages, the widow and the [h]orphan, and those who turn aside the [i]alien and do not [j]fear Me,” says the Lord of hosts. 6 “For [k]I, the Lord, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, [l]are not consumed.
7 “From the days of your fathers you have turned aside from My statutes and have not kept them. Return to Me, and I will return to you,” says the Lord of hosts. “But you say, ‘How shall we return?’

You Have Robbed God​

8 “Will a man [m]rob God? Yet you are robbing Me! But you say, ‘How have we robbed You?’ In tithes and [n]offerings. 9 You are cursed with a curse, for you are [o]robbing Me, the whole nation of you! 10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be [p]food in My house, and test Me now in this,” says the Lord of hosts, “if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until [q]it overflows. 11 Then I will rebuke the devourer for you, so that it will not [r]destroy the fruits of the ground; nor will your vine in the field cast its grapes,” says the Lord of hosts. 12 “All the nations will call you blessed, for you shall be a delightful land,” says the Lord of hosts.
13 “Your words have been [s]arrogant against Me,” says the Lord. “Yet you say, ‘What have we spoken against You?’ 14 You have said, ‘It is vain to serve God; and what profit is it that we have kept His charge, and that we have walked in mourning before the Lord of hosts? 15 So now we call the arrogant blessed; not only are the doers of wickedness built up but they also test God and escape.’”

The Book of Remembrance​

16 Then those who [t]feared the Lord spoke to one another, and the Lord gave attention and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before Him for those who [u]fear the Lord and who esteem His name. 17 “They will be Mine,” says the Lord of hosts, “on the day that I [v]prepare My [w]own possession, and I will [x]spare them as a man [y]spares his own son who serves him.” 18 So you will again distinguish between the righteous and the wicked, between one who serves God and one who does not serve Him.



~~~ From your perspective people are still subject to God's wrath? Why do you believe so? Was not the wrath of Yahava, to put material Israel in it's place?

God's indignation with Israel for Israel's sins falls on Israel, but that does not mean He is not wrathful with other men for their sins.

 

[Taken]

In what world is that unreasonable?

I don’t know, you would have to ask someone who made that comment.

 

[MatthewG]

The wrath has been upon men since Adam--ie, the sentence of spiritual death, and the manifold curses (some stipulated in the Law--the Law was revealed to Israel, but it is at work in the world).

It was poured out, though. I don't get where you believe God's wrath is still here today. I guess it's because I believe differently than you and believe Jesus has returned, and victory has been had, including God's wrath being poured out. Ill just go on, it's okay if we differ. :)

 

[Taken]

Yeah, I started the discussion. I expect to find either agreement or disagreement. Isn't that the purpose of discussion?

Disagreement typically continues a discussion as to why.

No matter. And sorry to tax you with a 5 minute post.

Maybe see ya around.

 

[GracePeace]

Disagreement typically continues a discussion as to why.

No matter. And sorry to tax you with a 5 minute post.

Maybe see ya around.

"Continues a discussion as to why"?

OK See ya

 

[Behold]

as the Galatians, who went after "another Gospel", and "deserted Him Who calls you in the grace of Christ" (Gal 1:6)),

Its true that these Galatian Christians "fell from Grace" into "another Gospel"., and became "in the Flesh".

But notice that Paul never once even suggests that this could cause them to lose their Salvation.
He does not even suggest it.

Why not?

Because you can't stop being born again...but you can become a Theological "ship wreck".

One is a Spiritual Birth that is God caused and God maintained... Philippians 1:6

Once is a believer who has been deceived by a deceiver....but that is just a MIND issue... a Theology issue, a ruined faith issue..a mental stronghold issue.....not a Loss of Salvation issue.

 

[MatthewG]

Found a bunch of verses that deal with God's cup of wrath - Job 21:20; Psalms 75:8; Isaiah 29:9; 51:17; 51:22; Jeremiah 8:14; 9:15; 13:13; 23:15; 25:15; 25:28; 48:26; 49:12; 51:7; Lam 4:21; Ezel 23:33; Obad 16; Nahum 3:11; Hab 2:!6; Zech 12:2; Revelation 14:10; 16:19; 18:3; 18:6

Just so you can see that I am not trying to squander anything, but I truthfully do believe this cup is empty today.

 

[GracePeace]

It was poured out, though. I don't get where you believe God's wrath is still here today. I guess it's because I believe differently than you and believe Jesus has returned, and victory has been had, including God's wrath being poured out. Ill just go on, it's okay if we differ. :)

I believe men still abide under God's wrath, that has been on men since Adam's sin, because people are still dead in sins apart from faith, and if men fall away from faith, they are under God's severity. So it is clear that faith is the way to be in God's kindness, and unbelief is the way to "remain" under His severity, and it says "for not all men have faith", so not all men are enjoying God's kindness.

 

[GracePeace]

Its true that these Galatian Christians "fell from Grace" into "another Gospel"., and became "in the Flesh".

But notice that Paul never once even suggests that this could cause them to lose their Salvation.
He does not even suggest it.

Why not?

Because you can't stop being born again...but you can become a Theological "ship wreck".

One is a Spiritual Birth that is God caused and God maintained... Philippians 1:6

Once is a believer who has been deceived by a deceiver....but that is just a MIND issue... a Theology issue, a ruined faith issue....not a Loss of Salvation issue.

If "Christ will avail you nothing" (Gal 5:2), and Christ is how God saves, doesn't that mean Christ cannot save them?

 

[MatthewG]

I believe men still abide under God's wrath, that has been on men since Adam's sin, because people are still dead in sins apart from faith, and if men fall away from faith, they are under God's severity. So it is clear that faith is the way to be in God's kindness, and unbelief is the way to "remain" under His severity, and it says "for not all men have faith", so not all men are enjoying God's kindness.

Therefore it seems that Jesus death doesn't cover all people sins, without having any faith. But Yahava has faith, and Yeshua has faith, and doesn't the faith of those to top everyone else? Do you believe that even though people may not be enjoying God's kindness, that God is not calling to all people.

Also here is some information,

Found a bunch of verses that deal with God's cup of wrath - Job 21:20; Psalms 75:8; Isaiah 29:9; 51:17; 51:22; Jeremiah 8:14; 9:15; 13:13; 23:15; 25:15; 25:28; 48:26; 49:12; 51:7; Lam 4:21; Ezel 23:33; Obad 16; Nahum 3:11; Hab 2:!6; Zech 12:2; Revelation 14:10; 16:19; 18:3; 18:6

Just so you can see that I am not trying to squander anything, but I truthfully do believe this cup is empty today.

I believe that your thesis that because people have not faith, that God is angry with them... Sorry, I just do not see how that is possible. He seems to me to be calling all people, just people reject coming to him.