When did Peter EVER fall away and become a FALSE teacher??
Uh... What??? What in the world makes you ask such a question? Do you somehow think I insinuated such?
Sorry – but “Epignosis” makes them born-again believers. The warning is for those with Epoignosis of Christ – NOT for those who don’t realty believe but are “hanging around” with believers.
Well, again, I agree regarding the particular Greek word and it's true meaning, but your understanding of the entire passage is the issue. I was clear on that above, I think, so I'm not going to repeat myself.
Paul is saying the because he trusts that they have a true partnership in the Gospel – Jesus will carry on the work He began in them to completion - IF THEY REMAIN true partners in the Gospel. This is a CONDITON
Nope. Again... sorry, this is a copy/paste... what Peter is doing in this entire passage in 2 Peter 2 ~ singling out those who are
with true followers for a time (added: in partnership with him, walking the same walk as he, in the Gospel)... and even suppose themselves to
be fellow true followers, but then subsequently, again, go out
from the true followers because they are
not true followers, even proving themselves not to be of the true followers to the true followers themselves. So, not
of them, not possessing the same God-given faith, which, as I'm sure you know, is the assurance from God the Father and the conviction of the Holy Spirit, which is what we read in Hebrews 11: 1, that
"faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen."
Cooperation is not an inevitability...
Yes, I didn't say that. I said their Christian response is ~ their good works are ~ inevitable, because of God's work in them by His Spirit.
God does NOT coerce us. How gives us a FREE WILL.
Coersion. Ugh...
Sorry, I mean that tongue-in-cheek... :)
Anyway, yes, I have known for a while now, from what you have said, that this is what is really behind your position, what is driving it. "Free will," as if anyone is suggesting we don't have it. Again though, I would answer that in Romans 9, Paul is ascribing this question to folks in a way unlike it would be ascribed to people thinking along the same lines as you, but it still applies:
"You will say to me then, 'Who can resist His will?' But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, 'Why have you made me like this?' Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?" (Romans 9:19-21)
Let me point out something here, BOL. John says, in John 3:16,
"whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life," and Paul says, in Romans 10:13,
"everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." Pretty simple, right? Well, there's a bit more to it than many suppose. Both John and Paul ~ not... Lennon or McCartney... and definitely not George or Ringo... :) ~ are referring directly to something the prophet Joel says in chapter 2 of his prophecy:
"And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the LORD has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the LORD calls" (Joel 2:32)
It should be noted that, while it is very true that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved, it is equally true that the ones calling upon the name of the LORD are the ones whom the LORD calls.
Consider what Jesus says in John 10:
"At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon. So the Jews gathered around Him and said to Him, 'How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.' Jesus answered them, 'I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, Who has given them to Me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.'" (John 10:22-30, emphasis added)
Regarding the
blue text above, we should not reverse the order there. We are not among His sheep because we believe(d), but rather, we believe(d) BECAUSE we are His sheep, given to Him by the Father.
And regarding the
green text above, there is no condition there. His sheep hear His voice, and He knows them, and they follow Him. He gives them eternal life ~ you and I have it ~ and no one is able to snatch them out of His or the Father's hand. And again, as Paul puts it:
"...we are more than conquerors through him who loved us... neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 8:37-39)
The issue is the
heart, BOL, not the will. Yes, of course we have free wills, but
the heart drives the will. God is in the
creation business... and the
re-creation business :). So we sing, BOL, with David:
"Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me." (Psalm 51:10)
We, as Christians are reborn ~ recreated, as it were... we are new creations, which Paul actually says in a couple of places that immediately come to mind:
"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come." (2 Corinthians 5:17)
"For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation." (Galatians 6:15)
We like to say ~ and are correct in saying ~ that He gives us a new heart, which is to say that, even though our old sinful nature is still with us in this life, we have been given a new nature, one that loves God and thus wants to serve Him. There is no "coersion." It would much more aptly be called an enabling. It's really a freeing ~ from slavery to unrighteousness, which is how Paul describes it:
"...(we)
who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.... (we)
have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit (we) get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life" (Romans 6:15-23)
The ONLY way it can be an inevitability is IF we endure in faith by cooperating with His grace.
Jesus is the author and perfector of our faith, BreadOfLife. This is Hebrews 12:2. And as I said before... well, I'll say it in the words of a hymn we all know and love. This is not Scripture, but is firmly based in Scripture:
"'Tis grace hath brought me safe thus far, and grace shall lead me home." ~ (Amazing Grace, Sir John Newton)
No – I said that our works are created by HIM. We are simply the tools that complete those works.
Well, right, I agree, but do you not believe what David said in Psalm 139? He sings:
"I praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are Your works; my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from You, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in Your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them." (Psalm 139:14-16, emphasis added)
If you are working on a project that needs a power drill – and the drill doesn’t work – then your project won’t get don’t.
Ah, well, to this... metaphor... I would say, BOL, that God provides the electricity. :) Or not, depending on His will. :) God's Holy Spirit is the electricity... :)
Grace and peace to you.
