22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

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WPM

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What meaneth this?...


6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Acts 1:1-9: “The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.”

I used to use this passage as a proof-text for Premillennialism, when I held to that school of thought. However, I believe a closer examination of the narrative shows a different story to that argued by that belief. Many Premillennialists advance the disciples question to Christ in Acts 1:6 relating to the restoration of the kingdom to Israel, as evidence that Christ is going to set up a future physical temporal kingdom on this earth for 1000 years after His second coming. I believe such an interpretation emanates more from a partial preconceived idea of the word “kingdom” rather than any direct or indirect allusion to, or a clear description of, a post-Second Coming earthly physical millennial kingdom in this passage.

The two verses that go before Acts 1:6 (relating to the disciples’ question) support the idea of a spiritual kingdom. The two verses that follow Acts 1:6 (relating to the disciples’ question) show the Lord giving a spiritual response to their question.

Before the question came Christ was exhorting the disciples on the need for patience as they awaited the empowerment of the Holy Ghost to take the Gospel out to “the whosoever.” Everything about the context is spiritual. The Lord was stating “that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence (Acts 1:4-5).

Surely an unbiased look at these introductory comments would give us insight into what the Lord was teaching and what actually provoked the question that followed it. Undoubtedly the Lord was giving spiritual instruction about a spiritual kingdom that would shortly come with great power and fire? This is not territorial language.

What is “the Promise of the Father” here? Is it a material physical kingdom or is it a spiritual heavenly kingdom? Is it a millennial kingdom similar to this evil age, filled with death and rebellion, or was He speaking of the power of the Holy Ghost that would fall upon the disciples to empower them to bring the good news of Christ to all nations – starting in Jerusalem?

Evidently, Christ was referring to the day of Pentecost where the Church received its Holy Ghost baptism of fire. The whole discourse here is spiritual and revolved around the development of this spiritual kingdom subsequent to Christ’s ascension. Jesus confirms this again in Luke 24:46-49: “Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things. And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power (or dunamis) from on high.”

The promise of the Father was the baptism of the Holy Ghost, which was a power from on high that endued them for service.

Jesus had previously said to the disciples in Mark 9:1: “Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power (or dunamis).

Christ was speaking of Pentecost. He said the disciples would not die until they had “seen the kingdom come with power” – referring here the Church’s baptism of fire to win a lost world. It didn’t mean they would die when that happened.

The disciples then interjected with a question: Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?”

Premillennialists attribute much extravagant, extensive and grandiose detail to this simple question. They build a whole school of thought pertaining to a supposed period after the second coming out of this basic inquiry. They call it a millennial age and make it a Jewish-orientated kingdom. Nevertheless, and significantly, New Testament Scripture knows nothing of such an old-covenant-type Jewish age. That has been reduced to the history books.

What Premillennialists fail to see is: there is no mention of a future period after the second coming in the question, neither is there any intimation of that. There is not even any mention of the second coming, never mind a belief in a thousand-year reign of Christ on a still corrupt earth! No one could derive such a doctrine from this straightforward question. It would have to be taught elsewhere for it to enjoy veracity.

The most that we could take from this is that they may indeed have anticipated the introduction of a parochial, territorial and old-covenant-type physical kingdom. But that is far from a foregone conclusion. We can only, at best, speculate on that. Even if that was their assumption, that in no way proves that it was a legitimate hope. The disciples were often misguided in their expectations and narrow-minded in their tribal aspirations. They frequently saw no further than the borders of Israel. We see that played in the book of Acts, with their reluctance to advance the Gospel to the Gentiles.

It is hard to read the motives and intention of the question. Many times, the disciples were not getting the full meaning of Christ’s teaching. He sent His whole ministry correcting and re-directing them. So it could have been a patriotic desire. But Christ’s response nails it. That is what is key, not the disciples’ question. Premils tend to ignore the context and response and just talk about one verse in this narrative. That is because it suits their theology.

Regardless, it doesn’t really matter what the disciples thought, we need to rather ascertain what Christ thought and taught. We should remember: that this question came in the midst of a spiritual discourse about the kingdom of God arriving in power at Pentecost. Christ’s reply is key. It is powerful. It is direct. It nails the literalist’s interpretation of this in a carnal earthly sense.
 
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WPM

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No way God can do this to them?....


31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Impossible?

God can't hang here?
Jeremiah 31:31-34 says: “Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

This is pointing us straight to Christ and His once all-sufficient sacrifice at the cross. This is talking about the salvation that results from the cross for the redeemed! Thank God, its benefits are still active today. This event is ongoing and relates to the intra-Advent period. It is not simply a future event.
 
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BreadOfLife

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The RCC is the great whore.
It is the mother of all Acts 2:38 skippers.
It invented Acts skipping.
It caused folks to skip water baptism entirely with the Acts 2:38 skipping spell on her daughters.
It is ecclesiastic Rome as a 4th world power(iron/clay)
Thou art the man.
Again with the lies and moronic fairy tales . . .

First of all – repeating a lie doesn’t make it come true. Doesn’t matter HOW many time you tell yourself – without presenting a SHRED of Scriptural evidence – that the Catholic Church is the “Whore of Babylon”. Why don’t you try refuting my rock-solid argument instead, hmmmmm??

Secondly - the Catholic Church REQUIRES Baptism – it doesn’t “skip” it.
Time to go back to your little anti-Catholic laboratory and whip up some more believable lies.

Your idiocy has been
exposed . . .
 

Truther

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Yes, I know through additional passages what Christ is telling them here. You apparently do not! Zionists believe that Christ will come again and restore the Kingdom back to ethnic Israel and save all of them (You). Which is why I gave you additional verses trying to help you understand the error in this thinking. This is the age of salvation. When Christ returns again, there will not be additional time given ethnic Israel to inherit a Kingdom on this earth, and through obedience be saved. Ethnic Israel MUST be saved during this age of Gospel grace, before Christ comes the second time, just as Gentiles too MUST be saved. Then all the faithful saints together will inherit God's promise of the new earth for all eternity.
You know what else I believe?...

28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.


The 12 Apostles will help Jesus judge the 12 saved tribes during His reign from Jerusalem.

This is exactly why the next question was asked...


6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.



They were excited like I am.
 

Truther

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What is the day coming foretold here? Has not the day of the Lord promised come when Christ came to the earth a man?
Zech 14 is yet to come.

Jerusalem has been a mess to this day.

Jerusalem at the day of the Lord per Zech 14, will be safely inhabited.
 

Truther

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The prophesy of old is fulfilled for those of faith, those who believe God. Mankind receives the promise of God according to grace through faith. The Old Covenant saints looked for fulfillment that would come when the promised Messiah came, and since Christ has come we look for fulfillment of the promise for Him to come again when the seventh angel begins to sound that time given this earth to build the hevenly eternal spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven as the Gospel is proclaimed unto all the earth. All who are of like minded faith as that of father Abraham have spiritually entered into the Kingdom of God through His Spirit in them.

John 14:17 (KJV) Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:26 (KJV) But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Hebrews 11:1 (KJV) Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Hebrews 11:6 (KJV) But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Hebrews 11:9-10 (KJV) By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Hebrews 11:13-16 (KJV) These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Hebrews 12:22 (KJV)
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

The promise regarding the physical land of promise, Caanan, was fulfilled, and in the same manner the promise regarding and eternal home in heaven is being fulfilled as the Gospel is proclaimed and men/women of faith are saved. Those who belong (all nations) to the eternal spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven, shall inherit the whole earth made new, where there is no more sin or death.

Because Christ has come and after His resurrection ascended to heaven where He inherited a Kingdom that shall never end all the promises made through Him have been fulfilled and will be complete when He comes the second time.
Please tell me how this is about you personally?....



14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord....

21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.


Please explain it, line by line.
 

Truther

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Acts 1:1-9: “The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.”

I used to use this passage as a proof-text for Premillennialism, when I held to that school of thought. However, I believe a closer examination of the narrative shows a different story to that argued by that belief. Many Premillennialists advance the disciples question to Christ in Acts 1:6 relating to the restoration of the kingdom to Israel, as evidence that Christ is going to set up a future physical temporal kingdom on this earth for 1000 years after His second coming. I believe such an interpretation emanates more from a partial preconceived idea of the word “kingdom” rather than any direct or indirect allusion to, or a clear description of, a post-Second Coming earthly physical millennial kingdom in this passage.

The two verses that go before Acts 1:6 (relating to the disciples’ question) support the idea of a spiritual kingdom. The two verses that follow Acts 1:6 (relating to the disciples’ question) show the Lord giving a spiritual response to their question.

Before the question came Christ was exhorting the disciples on the need for patience as they awaited the empowerment of the Holy Ghost to take the Gospel out to “the whosoever.” Everything about the context is spiritual. The Lord was stating “that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence (Acts 1:4-5).

Surely an unbiased look at these introductory comments would give us insight into what the Lord was teaching and what actually provoked the question that followed it. Undoubtedly the Lord was giving spiritual instruction about a spiritual kingdom that would shortly come with great power and fire? This is not territorial language.

What is “the Promise of the Father” here? Is it a material physical kingdom or is it a spiritual heavenly kingdom? Is it a millennial kingdom similar to this evil age, filled with death and rebellion, or was He speaking of the power of the Holy Ghost that would fall upon the disciples to empower them to bring the good news of Christ to all nations – starting in Jerusalem?

Evidently, Christ was referring to the day of Pentecost where the Church received its Holy Ghost baptism of fire. The whole discourse here is spiritual and revolved around the development of this spiritual kingdom subsequent to Christ’s ascension. Jesus confirms this again in Luke 24:46-49: “Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things. And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power (or dunamis) from on high.”

The promise of the Father was the baptism of the Holy Ghost, which was a power from on high that endued them for service.

Jesus had previously said to the disciples in Mark 9:1: “Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power (or dunamis).

Christ was speaking of Pentecost. He said the disciples would not die until they had “seen the kingdom come with power” – referring here the Church’s baptism of fire to win a lost world. It didn’t mean they would die when that happened.

The disciples then interjected with a question: Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?”

Premillennialists attribute much extravagant, extensive and grandiose detail to this simple question. They build a whole school of thought pertaining to a supposed period after the second coming out of this basic inquiry. They call it a millennial age and make it a Jewish-orientated kingdom. Nevertheless, and significantly, New Testament Scripture knows nothing of such an old-covenant-type Jewish age. That has been reduced to the history books.

What Premillennialists fail to see is: there is no mention of a future period after the second coming in the question, neither is there any intimation of that. There is not even any mention of the second coming, never mind a belief in a thousand-year reign of Christ on a still corrupt earth! No one could derive such a doctrine from this straightforward question. It would have to be taught elsewhere for it to enjoy veracity.

The most that we could take from this is that they may indeed have anticipated the introduction of a parochial, territorial and old-covenant-type physical kingdom. But that is far from a foregone conclusion. We can only, at best, speculate on that. Even if that was their assumption, that in no way proves that it was a legitimate hope. The disciples were often misguided in their expectations and narrow-minded in their tribal aspirations. They frequently saw no further than the borders of Israel. We see that played in the book of Acts, with their reluctance to advance the Gospel to the Gentiles.

It is hard to read the motives and intention of the question. Many times, the disciples were not getting the full meaning of Christ’s teaching. He sent His whole ministry correcting and re-directing them. So it could have been a patriotic desire. But Christ’s response nails it. That is what is key, not the disciples’ question. Premils tend to ignore the context and response and just talk about one verse in this narrative. That is because it suits their theology.

Regardless, it doesn’t really matter what the disciples thought, we need to rather ascertain what Christ thought and taught. We should remember: that this question came in the midst of a spiritual discourse about the kingdom of God arriving in power at Pentecost. Christ’s reply is key. It is powerful. It is direct. It nails the literalist’s interpretation of this in a carnal earthly sense.
Let's put it simpler for the Amil's here....


Amil tells his kid, "you're getting allowance soon".

Amil's kids says, "when"?

Amil says "it's not for you to know when mom is going to give you your allowance".

Amil's kid says "did you say I am never going to get an allowance"?


LOL
 

Truther

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Jeremiah 31:31-34 says: “Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

This is pointing us straight to Christ and His once all-sufficient sacrifice at the cross. This is talking about the salvation that results from the cross for the redeemed! Thank God, its benefits are still active today. This event is ongoing and relates to the intra-Advent period. It is not simply a future event.
Per Heb 10:15-17, here is all you get....


15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.


The highlighted implies inclusion of the present church into their future promise.

Guess what, a preterist showed me this, by accident.
 

Truther

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Were your sins remitted?
Yes, only obeying this verbatim....

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,...
 

Truther

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All Israel, who has trusted in Christ and been saved from sin, will be saved from hell in the future.
Here is the lone plan of salvation and the way to bypass the white throne judgement....


38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
 

Truther

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Again with the lies and moronic fairy tales . . .

First of all – repeating a lie doesn’t make it come true. Doesn’t matter HOW many time you tell yourself – without presenting a SHRED of Scriptural evidence – that the Catholic Church is the “Whore of Babylon”. Why don’t you try refuting my rock-solid argument instead, hmmmmm??

Secondly - the Catholic Church REQUIRES Baptism – it doesn’t “skip” it.
Time to go back to your little anti-Catholic laboratory and whip up some more believable lies.

Your idiocy has been
exposed . . .
No, the RCC is the mother of all Acts skippers.

They introduced Acts 2:38 skipping to the world.

They forbid this....


38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,.....


It was all downhill since......
 

WPM

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Let's put it simpler for the Amil's here....


Amil tells his kid, "you're getting allowance soon".

Amil's kids says, "when"?

Amil says "it's not for you to know when mom is going to give you your allowance".

Amil's kid says "did you say I am never going to get an allowance"?


LOL

Stop your avoidance please, if you can. Address the actual biblical evidence above for once.

The disciples did not fully grasp the spiritual meaning of the kingdom of God. They often come to these wrong conclusions. They were very parochial and earthly minded. After Pentecost, this all changed.
 
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Keraz

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Anybody who thinks that all of Jewish Israel will be saved, are wrong because Jesus said those who were born in the kingdom, will be thrown out. Matthew 8:13
But Matthew 8:12 tells us that many will come from the East and West to sit at the table with Abraham.

These scriptures put it in a nutshell; Those people who belong to the Synagogue of Satan, Revelation 3:9, Romans 2:29, are not God's people, it is every person who believes in God and Jesus who keeps the Commandments, people from every tribe, race, nation and language, who belong to the Kingdom. Matthew 21:43
That they are; mainly, descendants of Jacob - from the 10 Northern tribes, is Gods secret, only He knows who and where they are. Amos 9:9
This is proved by how Jesus said: I have come to save the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Matthew 15:24

The separation of Israel, the Northern 10 Tribes, now the Christian peoples and the 2 tribes of Judah and Benjamin, the Jewish people, is fundamental theology.

But those who choose to believe in the incredible idea of a 'rapture to heaven' of the Church, cannot abide these truths, as they must have the Jews here, going thru tribulation, while they sit on the clouds; watching the earthly dramas. Totally unbelievable! and unbiblical.
 
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